Marui P226 E2 now on Redwolf

[BaBaBooey]

Yes, I've used both the stock plastic and metal outer barrels - both are OK.

 

In my opinion, there are two major problems in the original P226R design (otherwise an excellent gun in my opinion). The first I mentioned above was the design of the knocker. The other is the magazine. There's been some discussion regarding these "new" magazines and how they must have corrected the issue with the original. The original was designed using two pieces where the halves are secured using a long screw inserted at the base of the magazine. Rep's from Tokyo Marui (specifically Mr. Shimamura) has made references to “regulations” that required the BB capacity to be variable. As a result, the magazine needed to be made in two halves; I’m not aware of any such regulation, possibly an internal Marui policy?

 

The problem is not in using two halves, but the threads on the screw as well as those inside the shell are extremely weak. On a well used magazine, you can literally pull the two halves apart using your hands with very little force. From my expereince, I usually strip the threads in the upper casing before the screw is damaged.

 

At first glance, it appears that the P226E2 uses a single shell design. Unfortunately, this is NOT the case. It is still a two piece design, with the magazine base acting as the lower piece. You can see (refer to the photo below) that the exact same magazine screw from the P226R can actually be used to assemble the P226E2 magazine. In my opinion, these magazines are no better than the original ones in terms of the threads. Over time, I would guess that threads will begin to give and eventually cause a massive leak at the base of the magazine. I’ve read people who have experienced the two halves exploding, but I have never experienced anything close to this (it may if it’s filled with some unique propellant that it wasn’t designed to contain). If a magazine did explode and it was used in accordance with the manual, Marui will have some serious liability issues. From my experience, it starts as a slow leak. Eventually, the magazine will no longer be able to hold any liquid and will vaporize as it is being charged.

 

 

To maintain the screw threads NEVER over tighten these screws. If you confirm there is a leak at the base, seal it by correcting the o-ring (I highly recommend wrapping plumbers tape - although it is known to work, I do NOT recommend the other common method of soaking the seals in oil). Do NOT attempt to seal it by tightening the base screw as this will eventually lead to broken threads.

 

The biggest difference in the two magazines is the size of the upper half. In this design, the size of the upper half dictates the amount of propellant it can hold. Again, from the photo above, you can tell that the E2 magazine upper half is much larger - given the reservoir is has larger surface area, I assume it will retain heat better than the P226R magazine. Another small difference I noted was the design of the follower. Finally, note the channel of the BB column does not vary in width on the E2 magazine making it much easier to clean (and load, if you don't use a BB loader).

 

Photo below is the lower half - again, in my opinion it is the same.

 

The upper components (lip, gasket, and main valve) are identical to the P266R. One thing to note when taking apart these magazines, the gasket pin must be removed from left to right (in the photo below).

 

At this point, let’s introduce a few common upgrade parts that are readily available for the P226R/E2 magazine. The high-flow valve, gasket, gasket shims, and fill valves. There already have been several tests done of various high-flow valves on the Marui P226R. NONE OF THEM DO ANYTHING. I have personally tested KM (D in the photo below) and Nine-Ball valves and they have zero impact on output. I won't go into detail, but it is due to the design of the gas route - enlarging the valve sleeve does absolutely nothing. I have seen one replacement fill valve made by Nine-Ball (A in the photo below). These are considerably shorter when compared with the original. From my tests, they don't do anything. You can't get more shots per fill, fill faster, better, etc. I'm not certain why a longer fill valve was used by Tokyo Marui (there must be a reason, so I would leave it as is).

 

Unfortunately from my tests, shimming does not increase power (B in the photo below are popular LPE shims). Adding an extra piece of material under the gasket actually had no effect on the power output on the P226R and E2 magazines. I've found that they are designed in a way where it doesn't actually raise the gasket to make better contact with the cylinder. From my experience, adding more material only puts the gasket under more compression.

 

 

There are several aftermarket gaskets that can be used on the P226R/E2. A common one is the Nine-Ball (C in the photo above). Results of using this gasket are mixed. Personally, it had no effect on the power output, but it almost doubled the amount of shots I got per fill in both the P226R and E2 magazines. I can consistently get over 100 shots per single fill (the final BB’s are considerably lower in power compared to the first shot). HOWEVER, there are others who used this exact same gasket on the P226R magazine and found no significant impact. The tests I performed on these gaskets (brand new) were done on completely stock pistols (both E2 and P226R) with no other upgrades. As they get worn down, I'm sure my mileage will vary.

 

Overall, in my opinion, the Marui P226R/E2 magazines perform best with all its original parts. If you have a bunch of P226R magazines, I personally would not replace them with E2 magazines. There're not that different. In terms of upgrades, it might be worth experimenting with various gaskets, but your mileage will vary. Keep everything else stock - only use the upgrade parts if the originals get damaged and you can't get original replacement parts. In my opinion, you want to avoid unscrewing both valves in the magazine - they are very delicate. If you do, always use the proper valve wrench.

 

The new magazines do look nice for the classic P226's:

[BaBaBooey]

Someone pointed out the weight difference of the lower half magazine shell. The E2 is smaller so it is considerably lighter. This may lower the amount of stress against the screws. Still, I don't recommend over tightening these. Another tip - Marui provides a follower buffer that you can use if you want to dry fire the gun and cycle without the slide locking back. USE THESE when you dry fire the gun. Holding down the magazine catch to dry fire might cause the nozzle to strike the magazine follower damaging it or the follower.

[andres3300]

Thanks for the remarks mate

[Rob15]

Unfortunately from my tests, shimming does not increase power (B in the photo below are popular LPE shims). Adding an extra piece of material under the gasket actually had no effect on the power output on the P226R and E2 magazines. I've found that they are designed in a way where it doesn't actually raise the gasket to make better contact with the cylinder.

I would have to dispute that, part of the R&D prior to producing the LPE magazine shims was to check if the router/gasket would be raised with the use of a shim under it on all of Tokyo Marui's base magazines and on every version they are produced for they did raise the height by a measurable amount. I did also prototype them for the Tokyo Marui Glock series and on those magazines the design of the feedlip and router does prevent it being raised and I could measure next to no difference between shimmed and unshimmed so I never put them into production, the Desert Eagle mag had similar problems too.

 

If you have no performance gains then it's likely to be because there is no gain to make, or in other words the seal is as good as it realistically can be (Which I'd expect in brand new stock TM pistols and perhaps very well maintained pistols) but once parts do start to wear then you're more likely to get performance improvements or more of an improvement compared to running without shims in.

 

On a different note, it's a shame to see the new magazines are still likely to suffer from the same problem as the old ones now they've actually made their P226r look good, as much as pinned mags do annoy me when I have to fix a leak (A rarity to be fair) perhaps TM should be following that route in the future, or at the very least use a thicker bolt to increase the thread area?

[WhiteHawksan]

with the new baseplate, would it be possible to pin the bottom plate? Thus relieving stress from the fine threads in the screw/mag.

[Rob15]

with the new baseplate, would it be possible to pin the bottom plate? Thus relieving stress from the fine threads in the screw/mag.

Providing you have access to a decent drill press I can't actually see any reason why you'd not be able to do it if there is enough solid material at the bottom of the base plate to run the pins through without breaching into the gas chamber, although it'd have to be done when the mag is fairly new and the screw can still tighten up sufficiently otherwise you'll have a big hole in the bottom of the magazine too, unless you tapped that and sealed it up with a fresh bolt.

[BaBaBooey]

Hi Rob - thanks for the response.

 

I think you bring up excellent points. I do keep all my P226's in very good condition and all of my tests on upgrade parts are done on clean functioning pistols that are chrono'ing at or near the original stock baseline. Given that 99% of all my games are indoor CQB, they very rarely get exposed to harsher outdoor environment. They are regularly maintained, but I don't think I go above and beyond the standard cleaning before and after each game.

 

I trust that your research and design was appropriately done; it was never my intention to say otherwise. Perhaps it's more appropriate to say that lifting a functioning gasket (unworn, undamaged, etc.) through a shim is not recommended or doesn't produce any measurable increase in output? My test to see if it actually lifted the shim up further was purely visual with no quantifiable measurements. It appeared that the shim had no visual increase in height so I concluded that it didn't lift it and only compressed it. Again, I 100% trust that your tests showed otherwise and would never argue your findings.

 

As for pinning the base, as Rob mentioned, you're still dealing with a screw at the base. There's enough material for a pair of pins. The thing that maybe I didn't clarify enough is that I think the likelihood of the base separating is lower than the original magazine. Sine it doesn't protrude, there isn't a "lever" effect that existed in the P266R magazine.

[def-50]

If you know the MBK you select has an internal spring housing, just order a P226R hammer strut from Marui and you’re good to go (from my experience, dealing with Marui service department takes forever). If your MBK doesn't include grips, obviously you'll need a new pair and a set of grip screws.

 

In my opinion, it can be done (I'm waiting for my grip screws...knowing Marui, I'll get them in about 18 months). You can only tell it has E2 internal by examining the shape of the trigger (again, only cosmetically different and is NOT an SRT) and the magazine catch.

 

 

How could you order parts from Marui? They don't have even an e-mail address for international customers.

[BaBaBooey]

 

How could you order parts from Marui? They don't have even an e-mail address for international customers.

 

Yes, they do not take email orders even within Japan. I usually go through a local Japanese retailer or call them directly. I don't believe they deal with overseas orders and they are Japanese language only (actually I never tried speaking English to them). I occasionally order by mail...but it always a pain to get things from them.

[mimesis]

So, the first metal body kit is up and out and ready to buy.

 

http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=634_223&products_id=14500

[Stan-O]

I just got my TM P226 E2 and to be honest I regret selling my old one (well, I regret the difference I've paid to get the new one). Comparing to the real E2 grips the TM ones are much smoother and the real E2 grips do not fit (at least not without the mods, but then again if you're modding something, you could probably get a slimmer hammer strut/base and fit E2 grips on the old TM P226). I'm also very disappointed that the TM E2 grips are two-piece held in place by pins, not a one-piece design like the real E2 grip.

 

Oh, mine came straight from Japan and I can't decipher the manual -- what are these two small parts which came in a plastic bag packaged next to BBs? Are they new followers to be used in the old-style P226 magazines or what?

[steaktipz]

Those would be dry firing adapters. They let you shoot you gun with no bbs without having to hold down the slide release.

[PianoBlack]

Creation has a slide and barrel kit out now and Prime has a complete slide, frame, & barrel kit.

 

-Piano

[AnakChan]

Pricey!! $259..but it is a Prime I guess :-

 

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Accessories_Metal_Bodies_Slides_GBB_Prime_Metal_Body_Slide_Kit_for_Tokyo_Marui_P226_E2.htm