VFC MP5K now on WGC for pre-order

[hwagan]

 However, tightbore barrels are about more than just power, they're about accuracy, and my gut feeling is that going up a few tenths of a millimetre in size won't have a good effect on accuracy. I would say that you are better off with a customised rocket valve (á la Dangerwerx), a softer hammer spring or even a shortened barrel (up to a point) than a widebore.

 

 

I'm not going to state this as outright fact, but in my opinion and in all the testing I've done, a tightbore is literally about power and nothing else, with accuracy and range coming from the hop system. 

 

In about 15 G&P AR AEG's, I've had several stock barrels provide far greater accuracy than tightbores, and vise-versa - The only thing I've had affect accuracy and range is fiddling with the hop system and getting the right hop combination for the barrel. The most accurate gun I've owned was my old G&P WOC, which had a stock, cut-down with a hacksaw and crowned with a K-bar, 5.5" inner barrel - The accuracy with .3's was insane, yet the barrel was stock and very bodgedly cut-down. 

 

TM Pistols are also a good example - 6.08 barrels, generally less than 6" in length, and most are far more accurate than AEG's advertised as having tightbores out of the box.

 

 

I don't think there'll ever be a conclusive answer, but literally all the evidence I've ever seen suggests range and accuracy comes from the hop system, and the barrel plays very little part other than when it comes to the power levels. I'm sure that's probably quite a controversial thing to say, and I don't pretend to understand the physics, but I've had tightbores utterly ruin a gun's performance despite it being fine with the stock barrel and hop setup. I honestly believe if a tightbore gives an accuracy boost, it's down to the slight increase in FPS they usually provide.

[blobface]

and.....it's released! 

 

As for the barrel discussion, from my understanding there's a butter zone for accuracy, as you could imagine, just to exaggerate, a 7mm inner barrel would be hopeless, where as a 5.5mm inner barrel wouldn't work at all, so where exactly that butter zone is is up for speculation / testing. That being said, from experience, where inner barrel comes into playing a part in accuracy was rarely to do with the diameter, but the manufacturer / tolerance, my 6.03 prometheus barrel gave me better accuracy than my madbull 6.03 for the same length, but that could just mean the hop up I was using was happier with the prometheus barrel. 

[hwagan]

and.....it's released! 

 

As for the barrel discussion, from my understanding there's a butter zone for accuracy, as you could imagine, just to exaggerate, a 7mm inner barrel would be hopeless, where as a 5.5mm inner barrel wouldn't work at all, so where exactly that butter zone is is up for speculation / testing. That being said, from experience, where inner barrel comes into playing a part in accuracy was rarely to do with the diameter, but the manufacturer / tolerance, my 6.03 prometheus barrel gave me better accuracy than my madbull 6.03 for the same length, but that could just mean the hop up I was using was happier with the prometheus barrel. 

 

 

That sounds about right to me - It seems to be between 5.99 and 6.10 is about the right area. I imagine quality is the biggest thing though - Hence why a stock TM 6.08 outperforms many cheaper brand tightbore barrels.

 

I've always found the biggest boost to performance comes from trying out as many barrels and hop combinations as you're able to. When it comes to the science in it, it seems impossible to pin down - I've had a Madbull 6.03, Element H nub and stock G&P bucking shoot lasers, yet I've had the same combo perform awfully in other guns. Something as simple as switching out the nub can change a gun from a total shotgun to a tack-driver.

[Stuey]

I'm actually led to believe that a wider bore is more accurate - if you look at PDI's website, they actually sell their 6.08 as their accuracy barrel and their 6.01 as their power barrel. Most important though is the quality and consistency of the bore, which as hwagan said is why stock TM barrels are pretty decent.

[leothelion]

It would make sense that the 6.01 is a power bore due to less air escaping out the edges of the BBs but Im suprised a wider bore gives better accuracy? Would have thought that gives more margin for error..

[hwagan]

The accepted (but as far as I know not conclusively proven) theory is that the BB rides a cushion of air down the barrel - Therefore a wider bore gives a thicker cushion, preventing the BB touching the sides of the barrel and messing with the ballistics.

 

Makes sense to me at least, as I'd have thought if that wasn't the case, the BB would backspin onto the upper surface of the barrel.

[leothelion]

Yeah that does make sense as long as the air cushion is equal - mind you no airsoft gun is dead perfect all the time.

[L2E]

Thankyou very much for the videos (although actually the second video shows the MP5 running not just with propane but with CO₂, too) - are you nugentgl on GGi, then? If so - let me thank you again for your very helpful exposition on attempting to Viper-ize the VFC HK416C!

 

Those videos are a useful demonstration of what the gun can do when it's appropriately upgraded. Could you expand on what the differences are between the Avalon MP5 and the standard VFC MP5? You said that if you were to do it again you'd just buy the standard MP5 because you don't need the Crusader steel bolt - but would you also lose the steel body and barrel?

 

It sounds to me like your gun (Avalon, with the steel externals, plus the original VFC alloy carrier and the Azimuth bolt guides and nozzle) is close to the perfect example - but what would it take to get bolt lock working?

 

 

 

Like Stuey says, CO₂ isn't inherently overpowered - it's all down to the design of the gun. I'm of the opinion that if it passes chrono (and, as below, the shooter dry-fires the first two shots) it should be OK to play, but I've also heard that a lot of sites don't share my opinion.

 

 

I saw you also posted this wide-bore-barrel solution in the GHK G5 thread and I've gotta say I'm none too sure about it. The fluctuation at the beginning in the first few shots is something that seems to occur (not sure why, but it does) in all CO₂ guns, and it's not a problem - after you change the caplet, just dry fire two rounds, and you're good to go. However, tightbore barrels are about more than just power, they're about accuracy, and my gut feeling is that going up a few tenths of a millimetre in size won't have a good effect on accuracy. I would say that you are better off with a customised rocket valve (á la Dangerwerx), a softer hammer spring or even a shortened barrel (up to a point) than a widebore.

 

Yes, I am nugentgl on GGi.

 

The Avalon has the following upgraded parts:

 

1. Steel carrier

2. Steel front site

3. Steel cocking tube support

4. Steel hammer

5. Steel trip and ejector lever

6. increased strength recoil spring, guessing about 120% but not sure.

 

The steel internals were added to deal with the steel carrier.  I would add the steel cocking tube support so you can do the HK slap and get the increased recoil rod spring.  Other than that to get a well running MP5 you need:

 

1. Azimuth bolt guides

2. Azimuth nozzle - not sure if needed anymore when using bolt guides.  In one of my carriers, I run stock nozzle with both guides and no signs of wear at all.

3. Murder Oil - excellent lubrication developed by a fellow GBBR enthusiasts.  If interested, I can post up the email for ordering some and you can try yourself.

 

Optional:

 

1. Azimuth bulb and spring kit - however doesn't work with Azimuth nozzle as the nozzle ID is too tight for kit.  Weird, huh?

2. Azimuth gas release valves to increase efficiency of mag...less gas clouds.

 

To have the MP5 stop shooting on last bb, install the Azimuth last round hold open bb followers.  I have  some but haven't installed them yet.

 

Check my channel as I just put up another video showing a mod to increase the ROF when using the A5 stock.

 

I have had nothing but excellent results using Orga Wide Bore barrels (6.23mm).  I have them in my Polarstar, GHK AK and VFC M27 IAR.  The range and accuracy increased in all cases so I am sold 100% on them.  I would like to try their new 6.13mm barrels to see if I get better results...aka the "butter zone".

[blobface]

Thanks L2E, time to try to ship my old and hibernating VFC mp5 from my home country... looks like it's not all hopeless after a few years! Especially with CO2 mags seeming promising, I might just be able to get this to work, I have a surefire mp5 light doing nothing in the UK... was going to get a systema mp5 for it but it's weight being almost double of the real one put me off all this time. 

[L2E]

Definitely give it another chance blobface.  In the UK, you will probably have to run the C02 mags due to your cold weather.  Here in Texas, USA, I have no shortage of HOT weather so the GG mags are just fine.

 

You can order Murder Oil here --> https://sites.google.com/site/jdltactical/

[Stuey]

The main issue that I can see from YouTube videos is the horrendous cooldown/generally bad performance - which of the upgrade parts you stated helps with this? The nozzle?

[L2E]

The main issue that I can see from YouTube videos is the horrendous cooldown/generally bad performance - which of the upgrade parts you stated helps with this? The nozzle?

 

I don't have a problem with cool down but I don't dump mags either.  That goes for my MP5 or my Vipertech.  As a matter of fact, I don't shoot auto at all.  I did a test of short bursts for about 20-25 rounds and then chronoed the remaining rounds and it was well within my expectation range.  I know of no GIM GBBR that has no variation from first to last round fired in auto.  However, the Azimuth gas release valves will increase the efficiency of the mags and so will the Azimuth gas bulb kit.

[Stuey]

Well the overwhelming opinion of the VFC MP5 is that it sucks, at least shooting-wise, so I'm just intrigued as to why you haven't found the same with yours!

 

What a gas bulb?

[L2E]

Forums are for people that need help, mostly.  The squeaky wheel gets the oil kind of thing.

 

There are many examples of MP5's working great, especially in Asia.  Browse Arms-Cool and Wargammer and you plenty of posts showing how well their MP5 runs (kind of a bravado thing).  My job here is not to convince you one way or another, just to give my experiences.  Take it or leave it...

[calbur20]

New video of the gun firing: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVpIRXZKs0

 

 

I heard rumors that this new model incorporates improvements that VFC have learned from the previous release of the MP5. What those improvements are exactly, I have no clue. Take it with a grain of salt. 

[Paul202]

I didn't see this is this thread, but if need be move it to the duplicate threads section.

 

While browsing VFC I noticed this MP5K below, which to my knowledge is a new release. Does anybody have it yet? I know the orignal VFC MP5 was a POS, and the UMP wasn't that good either. If this was adapted from their MP5 then it most likely sucks. Has anybody opened up the gun and confirmed/denied that the internals are the same?

[L2E]

Internals are the same except they added the Azimuth bolt guides.  MP5 doesn't suck but it takes the right combination of parts for it to work properly.  I will not regurgitate what is needed is all that information is in the review thread.  Suffice it to say, VFC MP5 doesn't suck...however, the UMP is a work in progress as the carrier is too heavy for full auto.