Polar* working on a drop in, fully mechanical gas box

[Horsem4n]

Well, for those that hate seeing airsoft continue back into the 80', look away as this is still an externally powered gas mechbox replacement.

 

but, it looks like they are dropping the electronics for a fully mechanical build. looking through the comments(youtube & facebook), it appears that its still got FPS and ROF adjustability, just no electronics.

 

waiting for more news and a video with less youtube cliche music. (you've been warned)

 

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

All that work on the trailer and they didn't tell him to remove the stickers from his shoes?

[hwagan]

So it's like... an airsoft Jacuzzi sort of thing?

[renegadecow]

Or an outboard motor? Music's kinda 80s too if you think about it. Though with 2 or 3 other companies coming out with the same sort of product you'd think they should do less teasing and more features selling.

[frogfish]

lol thats my mag58 in the beginning...

[Tinkerton]

I don't understand. 

 

Why was it in water? 

 

Why is this 'better' than the existing polar star boxes?

 

Why do I suddenly have the urge to say "The truth is out there!"?

[renegadecow]

Probably just to show it has no electronics to short out. The original model is its own complete unit using solenoid valves. This appears to drop into AEG gearboxes with pneumatic controlled parts like a DG.

[JCheeseright]

Here's hoping that without the electronics it may end up being marginally cheaper too. 

[Inq Eisenhorn]

I always thought you bought the FCU as a seperate item anyway....so, in terms of the drop in section of the platform being cheaper, I don't know.

 

I'd also be extremely worried about any kind of "drop in" solution. It's (or should be) common knowledge that most airsoft manufacturers have never heard of "standardisation"....so it's foolish at best to expect a VFC M4 body to share any commonaility with a G&G M4 body, etc etc.....I mean, hell, from batch to batch they seem to struggle to get their tolerances correct.....so when an after market outfit talks about "drop in solutions" my first question is, drop into what?

 

I can't count the amount of times I've bought s Madbull XXXX (insert rail product etc) only to find that it doesn't fit the target rifle......this is where the costs of a "custom" build start to spiral.

 

Just my 2 cents

[ollie_ty]

Well their current PR-15s are based on VFC receivers. I assume this would be the same.

[frogfish]

I also always felt the FCU was the weakest part of the system, I've seen them burn out more than once.

[sniperelite7]

If it drops into the gearbox I don't forsee a problem with standardization. I've never had any headaches with cylinder tolerances.

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

Now that I watch it again, what's the point of a close up on  the box if the logo's upside down? Amateurs.

[Norotor]

The video demonstrates that it doesn't need a pressure regulator. Too bad they have changed that, and it requires low pressure.

[PureSilver]

Here's hoping that without the electronics it may end up being marginally cheaper too.

 

To quote the official Reddit thread (emphasis my own):

 

"How much is it?" At this time we are unable to give an official answer on this since it is still in development. It is being developed as a sister product to the Fusion Engine with the same level of craftsmanship and quality so one can expect it to be priced comparably.

 

I also noted this other quote with interest:

 

Someone once calculated the costs of polarstar fusion engine comes down to 120 dollars... I'd be willing to pay for 170-200 for it, but not 500.

That sounds worryingly believable; I have also long considered the Fusion Engine to be sold at an extremely high premium over what costs Polar* to make them (on spare time on their CNC machines; I believe the company makes car parts as its day-to-day business). There is presumably plenty of space in the market for someone to make an advanced version of the Fusion Engine that also creates heavy recoil, and maybe shave some of that 400% profit margin in order to access a greater share of the market.

[wyz2285]

I have no idea why they removed the FCU, I mean wasn't that the fancy part? Going full mechanical the adjustments would be a set of spring tension and pressure to play with, anyone who has owned a PCP rifle knows it.

Now for the same price? Total rip off. They need a competitor. I knew they were making quite a profit once I saw the internals, but never thought it would be under 150 dollars, after all, the high cycle rate solenoid valve are a lot more expensive then the ones you can find on ebay and if the parts are made by CNC it would be quite a bit as a simple CNC machined rail system cost more than a 100 dollars...Just my thoughts though.

[aprogressivone]

Here we go again. Lol. Although this is different since it is fully enclosed in a standard v2 gearbox, If Tippmann can make a full mechanical gun for $399 with remote or c02 mag option and a one year warranty, then that is all the proof you need to understand polarstar pricing and wolverine SMP. But like I said in the Wolverine SMP thread... Business is business. http://shop.tippmann.com/p/m4-carbine-airsoft

 

I really hope that since 3 companies are making modern remote line guns now, the price will be driven down. I'd love to be able to convert my old aegs into c02/hpa without super markup.

[Rob15]

That sounds worryingly believable; I have also long considered the Fusion Engine to be sold at an extremely high premium over what costs Polar* to make them (on spare time on their CNC machines; I believe the company makes car parts as its day-to-day business). There is presumably plenty of space in the market for someone to make an advanced version of the Fusion Engine that also creates heavy recoil, and maybe shave some of that 400% profit margin in order to access a greater share of the market.

I'm sure if you calculated the cost of anything it'd be far less than the selling price, that's called business for you, you of all people should be aware of that really, Frankly anyone who thinks a product that costs $120 to make should sell for $200 is an idiot, why? Polarstar sell to retailers, to sell for $200 retailers would want to pay less than they 'apparantly' cost to manufacture, also why shouldn't they try and make a decent profit from excess machine capacity? If they can make a better profit from airsoft products than taking on riskier subcontract work from customers who may not even pay then good for them, just because it's spare time it doesn't mean they should sell at low margins, I bet all their machines are out of the short warranty period they get so if they charged too low a breakdown could come back to bite them hard, service engineers don't come cheap, nor do parts.

 

Oh, and they don't have a 400% profit margin, that is impossible, in order for Polarstar to have a 400% profit margin on a $500 product you'd have to give them $2000 and they give you nothing at all, please don't talk manufacturing costing and pricing when you don't understand the difference between profit margins and markups, as someone who works in the manufacturing sector and has completed a professional accounting qualification which included at least four units on manufacturing costing I grow rather tired of it to be honest.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

Well, not to defend the 'ignorant' but profit is anything you make after your costs have been deducted. I agree with Rob15 though, people tend to look at business in a very simplistic way, and that leads to error. A manufacturer has to account for so many things, and not all of those costs can be simply amortised over a products volumes. To look at what a product might actually cost based on its materials and machine time alone ignores so many factors it's laughable.....

[Roland1014]

If they make a V3, I'll sell my VFC M4 body, VFC Scar-L body, my Gen3 Ver2, and buy one to put in an LCT VSS Vintorez. I'd get a shorter inner barrel to be realistic, and cut some alternating ID foam baffles.

 

 

Because reasons. Firstly, think how quiet it would be.

 

 

Also it would be a good backup for my changeover to GBB "only".

[PureSilver]

Steady on, Rob. I wasn't aware that by questioning the prices of a monopoly market supplier I was somehow attacking all parties involved in free market capitalism. Saying the blatantly obvious...
 

I'm sure if you calculated the cost of anything it'd be far less than the selling price, that's called business for you

...just makes you look rude, not to mention inaccurate when considering goods that range from Gilette razors to Bugatti Veyrons. You don't have a monopoly on further education or manufacturing experience and again, acting like you do isn't improving your image, at least not to me.
 
To get back on track, I've only worked in the CNC manufacturing sector briefly, but I don't see why a product that costs $120 to make shouldn't cost $200 to sell; the value-for-money that that $200 price represents is obviously entirely contingent on what is included in the phrase "to make" amongst many, many other things. If that $120 includes only materials and components and you expect to sell only a low number with no aftermarket potential, then clearly $200 is a low price and maybe (depending upon the other costs the business must pay to bring that good to you) $500 is a reasonable price. But if $120 is the total cost - including manufacturing time, components, the share of employees' wages, the business' R&D expenditure, insurance, and so on and so forth - and I didn't specify that it wasn't - then asking an additional $380, or over 300%, of profit could be considered short-sighted, especially when taking 'just' 100% margin would halve the RRP and possibly increase the number of units sold so significantly that the profit would still exceed that under the existing business model.

 

Just because your business model wouldn't make a profit making a good at $120 all-inclusive and selling at $200 doesn't mean that it is impossible to do so, just like it's not impossible that it actually costs Polar* $700 to make a FusionEngine and they're losing $600 on every one they sell to a distributor at $100. Further, your conjecture about the warranty period and technician cost on Polar*'s CNC machinery is no better founded than the $120 figure; until one of us starts working for Polar*, it's just informed speculation.

 

Oh, and they don't have a 400% profit margin, that is impossible, in order for Polarstar to have a 400% profit margin on a $500 product you'd have to give them $2000 and they give you nothing at all, please don't talk manufacturing costing and pricing when you don't understand the difference between profit margins and markups

I understand the difference just fine, but margin and markup are commonly considered interchangable by non-accountants, so apologies for any confusion I may have caused (none, I suspect, but just in case). If you get bad-tempered when people question the prices of other people's products, perhaps the "Airsoft News" section should be avoided in future for the sake of your blood pressure.

[Korppi]

Now now, they constantly R&D. They took their time developing the gen1 and tested it to death. P* are refining existing products and looking to launch new. If they would be just cloning a high end mech box such as systema and slap $500 sure, that would be costly but that is not the case most certainly.

 

A couple weeks back you could get gen3 P* M4 r-hopped (!) ready to play for ~650 from a certain retailer. So it is the retailer end that controls the amount of air in the price.

 

(I bought the gen1 immediately when they came available for WW sales and don't regret at all.)

 

ps. I see armchair mentality in the air and unnecessary emotions. Can someone at least whine about the hose and end of airsoft as we know it? If you got offended of this post scriptum then I suppose it is about time.

[jal3]

If you get bad-tempered when people question the prices of other people's products, perhaps the "Airsoft News" section should be avoided in future for the sake of your blood pressure.

Anyone who has experience in a field gets annoyed when ignorants (not saying you are) state wrong facts about that field.

Just like how when people fawn about R-hopup, my eye starts to twitch intensively

[Sallinen]

Any news on this?

[Wingmann]

Isn't Tippmann's model is basically this?