Back to gas - GBBR Purchase Options

[TB-Stalker]

Right, having previously owned GBBRs (WE PDW, G&P M4 and a custom DMR) I am looking to get back into them after playing with PTWs for the last couple of years.

 

I saw an earlier thread about another user wanting to switch from PTWs to GBBRs and it seemed a lot like a GBBR bashing fest so let's clear that up to begin with:

 

1) I know they have their drawbacks and issues

2) I like a fiddly rifle that I can/need to spend a lot of time on outside of games.

 

All I am looking for is an accurate rifle that will get through a days skirmish all year round.

 

I am limiting my budget to £600 including mags and parts.

 

So far I am looking at the following:

 

Vipertech M4A1 (I can get one for £450, sorry I can't say where)

GHK AK (AK74MN, 105 or 74U)

WE M4A1

WE M14

WE Scar-L

 

I'm not interested in the VFC/KWA or any others types of rifles like the G36 etc.

 

Advice would be appreciated, I like the GHK AKs and they seem reliable but the two models I am after seem hard to find outside of the UK or the stores that still do have them in stock are stupidly priced. I would happily go second hand.

 

Factors in order of importance: Accuracy, Reliability, Cost, Gas Efficiency.

[renegadecow]

All I am looking for is an accurate rifle that will get through a days skirmish all year round.

The all year round clause will always be a problem depending on where you live. Accuracy, anything with a VSR type hop will shoot great provided you put in a quality hop rubber. Reliability, you can cross out the M14, GHK AKs, and Vipertech AR unless you include the parts to get them running bullet proof into the cost.

[TB-Stalker]

I'd happily spend money on top to get them running correctly. So you're saying the WE is the only reliable one?

[renegadecow]

In tit freezing cold weather, yes, but it's a G36. There's GHK's G5 too which I recall is supposed to perform just as well and those are just stock guns. Bankz5152 was able to get his GHK AK running pretty well in relatively cold weather (not freezing) but required a fair bit of parts + modification so it's best to contact him or read through the GHK thread to know what you're up against.

[jkpics]

WE SCAR-L needs MSK (P-mags) alu shells will get lose over time and flop around in the magwell and dobble feed, steel bolts will F up the hopup unit up, other then that it's a really nice gun.

[PureSilver]

Any particular reason you aren't considering that most advanced all-weather GBBR on the market, GHK's AR-15? With refillable CO₂ magazines the gun's cost-effective and capable throughout winter.

[TB-Stalker]

Any particular reason you aren't considering that most advanced all-weather GBBR on the market, GHK's AR-15? With refillable CO₂ magazines the gun's cost-effective and capable throughout winter.

Huh.. the main reason I hadn't considered it was because I hadn't seen enough reviews on the rifle or know anyone who owns one.

 

Do they do a version without trades the as the "US Navy Seal" trades make me want to rip my eyes out.

[PureSilver]

The GHK, according to blobface at least (who owns more GBBRs than most shops), is by far the best AR-15 GBB4 on the market, and having shot it I'm inclined to agree with him. I agree that the trades are an absolute atrocity, though - I think there's a possibility you can buy blank receivers from Samoon. If you're feeling more adventurous, RA-Tech sell forged receivers with AAC markings, as:

1. The receiver set by itself ($260).
2. A challenge kit including all the externals of an 8" SBR ($500) - a partial version of the GHK ($350) can be bought as a donor for this.
3. A complete gun, in either 12.5" carbine ($710) or 8" SBR ($660)

The key advantage of the GHK system is the ability to modify the CO₂ magazines (of both the AR-15 and Kalashnikovs) to be refillable from a paintball bottle, giving you very cheap and very cooldown-resistant propellant.

[sandstorm]

And everyone ignores KJW again. Has it been totally buried becuase there isn't tons of upgrade parts available, or have they magically turned into dung beetle poo since they were the big thing on the forums few years ago?

[hitmanNo2]

They were never really the big thing.  Quite a few people had them and enjoyed them.  You don't hear about them too much anymore.  I think a lot of people are put off by the mags.  Pretty awkward for pouches compared to STANAGs.

[Korppi]

Or go external with DG M4 kit+G&P challenge kit, or pretty much any custom gun running HPA and never again get to meet mr. cool down while using AEG mags, hops & barrels instead chest full of fragile pieces of leaky monkey metal.

[Rob15]

They were never really the big thing.  Quite a few people had them and enjoyed them.  You don't hear about them too much anymore.  I think a lot of people are put off by the mags.  Pretty awkward for pouches compared to STANAGs.

They did make some STANAG mags too, but from what I've seen the guns and mags seem pretty thin on the ground in retailers compared to other GBBrs anyway.

[hitmanNo2]

I seem to recall hearing some STANAGs were coming out but don't actually remember the release.  That's cool.  I would have thought all the M4s had all dried up by now but you can still buy them and parts like that weird bolt band.

[vilerk]

I'd stick with an AR platform as the buffers have sliding weights.  This helps with full-auto consistency since bolt bounce is eliminated.   Though with the G39 you might be able to drill some holes and fill them with metal powder then plug them like H&K does for their G3.

[Bastel]

Is the GHK AR15 better than the KWA? 

[3vi1-D4n]

G39 doesn't have bolt bounce and works perfectly fine on auto.  It has wobbly barrel and foregrip which makes it shoot like peeing in the wind though.

 

There are a number of things also to consider:

 

 

- Accuracy

 

This is how consistent the system is to BBs. shooting out to 60m.  Most WEs like heavy BBs, but strangely VSR modded VFCs are just as consistent with 0.25gs as WEs like their 0.28-0.3gs.  AEG based hop ups are usually no good for GBBs as the Oils in the canisters (even propane cans), will make hop up inoperable after a few rounds, so anything with a VFC hop is good as are the G&P hop rubbers..    I have seen G5s/Inokatsu hop render useless after 3-4 mags.  KWAs generally have accuracy issues in the way they make their rubbers but can be modded.

 

- Wet weather operability

 

This is how consistent the system is to wet weather in the working parts like rubbers and barrels.  VSR based hop rubbers usually works ok so getting BBs wet and firing them will have no noticeable performance decrease.  AEG based hop rubbers are totally ineffective in wet conditions except for the types which work on VSR barrels (Maple leaf has them).  Though anything with steel (GHK/WE AK bodies), steel triggers and hammers, generally rusts in the rain, and pot metal oxidises.

 

- Gas effiicency

- Colt weather efficiency

 

These two are basically the same thing but different. They are determined by a few factors:

 

1)  System efficiency (how much effort does it take to cycle (Bolt weight, spring tension, friction etc))

2)  Gas system timing (how long, how much gas does it take to cycle (valve timing springs, gas release timing etc))

3)  Construction of the magazine.

 

WA M4, Prowin mags, old GHK mags used to be horrid with cold weather performance, though newer GHK mags seem to be the shiz.

Similarly, the plastic WE AK 74 mags have less cooldown than WE 47 mags.

 

For timing, for example:  WE AKs are well know to be gas hogs, and it releases gas for twice as long as a viper does during its cycling (both have a 290-300g bolt), but WE AKs can do without all that gas and still get the same recoil level just by modding the gas release timing.

 

- Magazine to gear fit:

 

Example:  G36/G39 systems require specially designed mag pouches to fit, similarly with WE MP5s.  Otherwise it impacts on how well you can skirmish.

 

-------------------------------------

 

So yeah no easy answer:

 

I have a number of GBBs and have bought and sold many more.  So far, each manufacturer have their own issues.  If you are to get something that just works shoots fantastic, and keeps on shooting, then a WE SCAR is possibly the best platform so far.

 

It uses M4 mags, has a steel outer barrel for accuracy, uses VSR hop so its always consistent in wet or dry, has rollers to keep the bolt cycling smoothly and gas efficient, Solid extruded aluminium receiver means it takes a beating and keeps shooting.  Takes hardly any effort to get to that state, and plenty of cheap aftermarket parts to keep it going.

 

Only downside with the SCAR is it gets boring and feels like a 2X4 plank.

[lee stephenson]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the PTSS Mega Arms MKM

 

Really sturdy build, and a lovely looking M4 variant!

 

Lee

[Alias1983]

My we I change gas when its cold as fits outside. I don't use co2, mostly mapp and propane. Gg only indoors as that's the rules.

 

Ghk is efficemt in the cold aswell and look up the devilhunter mod.

 

Ghk ftw!

[jal3]

Tippmann M4. Very efficient rifle.

[bankz5152]

I would suggest the GHK AK Milspec have em all in stock - http://www.milspecsolutions.co.uk/gas-blowback-rifles-and-smg-s/ghk-rifles-and-smg-s

 

I bought mine on a bit of a whim and absolutely love it, accurate, excellent range, cooldown is not a word in its dictionary. 

 

Only issues are the mag lips being too tight - Must sit a file them out, case of trial and error. As well as the hop unit, its plastic and terrible, mine broke after 100 rounds. I went for the Pro-Win Ali unit and its excellent. 

[TB-Stalker]

I would suggest the GHK AK Milspec have em all in stock - http://www.milspecsolutions.co.uk/gas-blowback-rifles-and-smg-s/ghk-rifles-and-smg-s

 

I bought mine on a bit of a whim and absolutely love it, accurate, excellent range, cooldown is not a word in its dictionary. 

 

Only issues are the mag lips being too tight - Must sit a file them out, case of trial and error. As well as the hop unit, its plastic and terrible, mine broke after 100 rounds. I went for the Pro-Win Ali unit and its excellent.

Yh it is looking like GHK is going to be the route I go down, although definitely not from there as they are ludicrously expensive, I'd rather import.

 

Do you happen to know if there is a performance difference 105, 74MN and 74U?

[renegadecow]

Barrel length affects muzzle output, but since you're in the UK with a low power ceiling on automatics it doesn't mean all that much.

[TB-Stalker]

Yh, none of them can be over 350 anyway, was more interested in any interior differences between the three, like one of them happening to come with steel parts over the other.

[BioRage]

GHK M4 FTW.

 

Best performance on the market, even NugentGL can vouch it over his Vipertech

 

I love mine, no problems, zero cool down issues in sub 5-10 degree weather. (On Semi).

 

Parts from Samoon are CHEAP to replace incase there is an issue.

 

My only gripe is that it's not as close to 1:1 real-steel spec, but what can I expect try to put RS stuff on my GHK.

 

Oh and get a blank receiver one, the trades on the OEM navy seal ones are pretty bad :s

 

GHK M4 should be better performance on the AK, and more recoil, but don't have both to compare, just based on what my peers state.

[bankz5152]

Yh it is looking like GHK is going to be the route I go down, although definitely not from there as they are ludicrously expensive, I'd rather import.

 

Do you happen to know if there is a performance difference 105, 74MN and 74U?

 

With the strength of the dollar at the minute it simply is not worth importing. 

 

£375.00 Shipped from Ehobby

+ approx £75.00 in VAT £450.00

+ Import Tax £10.00

+ PF Fee £8.50 (they dropped it!!)

 

£468.50 in total considerably more if you order mags as well. If im wrong about the VAT its still £393.50 only ~£20 or so cheaper, more hassle and no warranty.