Back to gas - GBBR Purchase Options

[Tw1tch]

Check WGC, they sell the MP7 bodies for the SMG 8.

 

Ooh will do. Any idea how hard it is to transplant? Bought it because I really really wanted a GBB primary and it was a good price. Then was immensely disappointed that the rear sight isn't removable, despite having a sodding pin in it.

[BioRage]

I've learnt my lesson, you get what you pay for :s

 

My next GBBR would be the KSC Skorpian

[icolater]

The vfc mp7 I used worked very well, but as many here have heard the older ones are , the newer ones are a bit better. But while they look great the marui and kwa mp7 work better. But as I said before VFC are getting better all the time so hopefully in the future all there produces will function as well as they look, I get this assumption from there mp5 series that have dramaticly improved and there stark glocks also went from being poo to outstanding amongst its peers. Ksc/kwa have the best range of GBB products available IMO all ready for green gas abuse and have good support aswell. Have never even seen a ghk in real life so cant comment on them but people seem to love them. Out of all my GBBRS (I have 10 and a problem) my favourites are my g&p wocs they are a *frootcagio* pain to get working right but once done work so well.

[Tw1tch]

Just checking WGC now and it looks like the MP7 frame doesn't include the top rail or the folding grip.

 

Now ideally I'd like to fit a replica of the tri-rail anyway because I'd rather select my own grip but I don't know if there are any decent replicas that will fit the WE. And the top rail is kind of necessary.

[icolater]

Just get the new rice and have your smg8 for parts or back up.

[3vi1-D4n]

..... they are a *frootcagio* pain to get working right but once done work so well.

 

I shall deliberately take this out of context.

 

Most GBBs/AEGs can be made to work REALLY well after some work.  The question is how much.

 

Marui GBBs....not so much

WE GBBs...a few hours + upgrade parts...plus a bit of ongoing maintenance

VFC GBBs....more than a few hours + upgrade parts + ....only a little ongoing maintenance

G&P GBBs....XX Inital Hrs + XXX$ + more Hrs + more Hrs + more $

 

etc

 

Therefore the whole thing about this, is that while the base platform is important it is also relative to your personal ability to diagnose issues and create solutions.

 

Bankz5152 has a vendetta against VFC GBBRs after spending a lot of hours and money, while I have had a number of VFC GBBRs and I will swear by them only after some simple mods.  I have had 2 VFC MP5s, a number of VFC M4s and they all have had substantial work done but their reliability is as good as any of my AEGs if not better.  But then again, most players try to get rid of their VFC, and even the airsoftsmiths I know avoid VFCs so I can understand why anyone would have such distaste for them.

 

There are WE platforms I will never touch after some experiences with them:  WE M14, WE PDW.  Their design and materials is just not up to par. Similarly VT I would also put into the same category, not because their material is inferior but their design is over reliant on material strength they underengineered the performance aspect of the GBB.  For these models no amount of modification/redesign work will sort their issues out.

[hitmanNo2]

It's subjective though.  I gather you don't like G&P WOCs as you didn't get on with them. Whereas I have an early one and it is bomb proof.  I've barely spent a a minute nor a penny on it.  Granted as it is early it has steel internals but still.

[Alias1983]

Only issue with the m14 is the trigger box itself is junk. Jb weld fixes that. We pdw is the same design as the scar. My we pdw is more reliable than the m4 I got a year ago.

 

We is the best bang for the buck.

Kwa if you like the marketing.

WA if you want it to look right, wa is also 134 based.

[3vi1-D4n]

The WE PDW is NOT the same as the scar, the PDW chews up gas because of the friction between the bolt carrier and the receiver is made worse by a hammer which sits too close to the bolt.  It results in bolt seizure during cycling, particularly in colder conditions or humid conditions, and that can't be changed.  Only way is to redesign the hammer.  There are no rollers on the PDW bolt carrier to minimise the friction issue. 

 

WE Scar the hammer sits low enough not to put too much pressure on the bolt during firing, and has rollers on the bolt carrier to minimise friction. Hence why the SCAR is a much better system for optimising.

 

M14 trigger boxes are a problem and JB weld doesn't fix the actual deforming issue that it has with the material.  Only solution is a steel trigger box.  However the other issues is the overall construction, 2 piece outer barrel, magazine etc.  Seen bits and bobs break off.  Its just generally a poor design.

 

As for the G&P, I have had 2.  Both steel trigger and non steel trigger.  The usual bolt carrier breakage issue and snapping of cocking handle issue exist from regular use, short of a steel bolt carrier and steel cocking handle.  I have one break out of the box with the buffer indent pin.  Also snapping of zinc hammer, inconsistent magazine performance, leaky mags, worn gas disconnector levers, and general bad cold weather performance.  Only good thing was the hop up, which was accurate for 0.25g BBs out to a good range.   Hence why the V2 VFC M4s with a VSR hop mod outperforms a G&P/VT/Inokatsu any day.

[Gigueand]

Have you considered a Tippmann M4?

 

Excellent reliability out of the box after some tweaks. Cheap Co2 magazines which allow you to shoot 60+ shots per magazine. Lots of noise and recoil. Capable of switching between Co2 in magazines to Co2 or HPA in a bulk tank using a remote line. Takes AEG barrels, stocks and front ends.

[jal3]

Tippmann GBBR is probably the most efficienct i've seen so far. Easily 100+ on a capsule.

[Alias1983]

Well all gbb have issues or else we would all be using the same m4 or ak.

 

Also we pdw is the same scar design, same hammer, with mods same nozzle. Not much but maybe looks, same concept.

 

The trigger pack is the same from scar m4 pdw 416 m16. The non m4 uses a bar to hit the sear for auto. That's about it.

 

The m14 trigger box the job weld trick lasts a while and the rest is negligent.

 

Vsr is the best hop system some you need to open the window for the bucking to sit right.

 

I have yet to see a good ootb working tippman.

[bankz5152]

 

 

#87

[Alias1983]

Brain exploder on yt.

[icolater]

Ksc have a 2015 ar http://www.airsofttaiwan.com/shop/goods.php?id=1248 don't know what changes they have made except for the one piece upper receiver. Horrible trades but I'm sure some cool lowers will be available.

 

Ra tech AAC looks so cool http://www.airsofttaiwan.com/shop/goods.php?id=1271 and it is available with a ghk base gun as well.

[3vi1-D4n]

Well all gbb have issues or else we would all be using the same m4 or ak.

 

Also we pdw is the same scar design, same hammer, with mods same nozzle. Not much but maybe looks, same concept.

 

The trigger pack is the same from scar m4 pdw 416 m16. The non m4 uses a bar to hit the sear for auto. That's about it.

 

 

 

Yes it uses the same hammer, so does the WE M4, SCAR, G36, L85.  Yet the G36 and SCAR are the best systems, while PDW, and L85 are the worst in terms of cycling and reliability.  WHY?  Core systems may be the same, but dimensional differences make a huge difference.

 

Remember the CWI steel WE M4 hammers vs the RA tech hammers.  The CWI steel hammers are a fraction higher than the stock and RA tech hammers which results in WE M4s BCG seizing and breaking the BCG roller pin.

 

As for the M14, seen JB welds fail, the actual material deforms due to the way the stresses apply onto the bottom of the trigger housing.  The JB weld merely prolongs the trigger box it does not eliminate the problem

 

---------------------

I haven't seen the Tippman as yet, but the inability to hot swap nearly empty mags without blowing out the CO2 seems a bit counter intuitive in skirmish situations.  The inability to load a partial mag with BBs on the field without a gas refil is also an alien concept.  That and I am not into the whole remote line stuff so I will stay away. 

 

My VFC M4 does auto mag dumps at 450fps I am pretty happy with it.

[TB-Stalker]

Lord why did I start this thread.

 

I'll be getting a GHK or I'll build myself another G&P WOC system from the ground up again, I know how much @hitmanno2 enjoyed all my questioning during the last build

[3vi1-D4n]

Lord why did I start this thread.

 

I'll be getting a GHK or I'll build myself another G&P WOC system from the ground up again, I know how much @hitmanno2 enjoyed all my questioning during the last build

 

Hahahaha, its like arguing with Religious fanatics...heated opinions fueled by lots of hearsay and false beliefs, with a sprinkle of truth.

 

Yeah give it a go, and keep us informed how it goes.  GHK is a good choice, no doubt it will still be days cursing and swearing over a disassembled rifle.

 

I am currently tuning a G&G M1903, and no you do not want to tune that, it is a *badgeress* of a rifle with proprietory valves, barrel and hop rubbers.  It also shoots underpowered at 400fps on greengas which fluctuates between 300 and 400fps at a whim.  My goal is to get it past 550fps which requires a design of the magazine that I am currently conducting.

[Alias1983]

I avoid gng more than kwa.....

[3vi1-D4n]

I avoid gng more than kwa.....

 

Ooooohhhh yeah!...But hey I like a challenge.  Only way to learn.

[hitmanNo2]

Ha ha.  I'll try and help where I can.

[3vi1-D4n]

You've worked with the M1903?

[Stuey]

Yes it uses the same hammer, so does the WE M4, SCAR, G36, L85.  Yet the G36 and SCAR are the best systems, while PDW, and L85 are the worst in terms of cycling and reliability.  WHY?  Core systems may be the same, but dimensional differences make a huge difference.

 

Remember the CWI steel WE M4 hammers vs the RA tech hammers.  The CWI steel hammers are a fraction higher than the stock and RA tech hammers which results in WE M4s BCG seizing and breaking the BCG roller pin.

 

As for the M14, seen JB welds fail, the actual material deforms due to the way the stresses apply onto the bottom of the trigger housing.  The JB weld merely prolongs the trigger box it does not eliminate the problem

 

---------------------

I haven't seen the Tippman as yet, but the inability to hot swap nearly empty mags without blowing out the CO2 seems a bit counter intuitive in skirmish situations.  The inability to load a partial mag with BBs on the field without a gas refil is also an alien concept.  That and I am not into the whole remote line stuff so I will stay away. 

 

My VFC M4 does auto mag dumps at 450fps I am pretty happy with it.

 

I thought it was the CWI trigger sets that were off spec? I've toyed with the idea of a WE SCAR (maybe when the heavy comes out) and my research showed CWI to be the better trigger pack upgrade. That and new nozzle guides were on my list (a friend had one and his nozzles were always breaking because they weren't held straight).

[BioRage]

I dislike KWA USA after the LM4 PTR and USP.

 

It was my first gbbr. If I could go back in time, it be a WE CQBR.

 

However now it is a GHK M4 I swear by :-)

[Katotaka]

Hate to stir things up for OP , but I think this is time I input again, with actual personal experience.
 
 
Here's a list of stocked GBBs I have/had:
( chronological order IIRC )
 
WE M4
Very first batch of AWSS
Was my competition rifle ( not much choices that time )
Converted into current open chamber system ( hate the design of hop chamber, not loading very reliably and weird hop performance )
Good thing is most external measurements are RS sized ( if you are into that thing ), added bling-bling and now it's a wall hanger...
Clicky
Clicky
 
KWA MP9
Nozzle break and now using DYTAC white nozzle, lowered FPS but it's a CQB gun, didn't care.
 
WE SCAR
Early batch where bolt travel too far where the hammer can "fold" the fore end of the cylinder
Purchased to replace WEM4 as competition rifle, spacer'd to eliminate problem above and now allowed to bolt lock
RA Tech 14" barrel kit, first shot accuracy for a CD sized target @ 30M, very very nice for the type of competition I play(ed)
Any worn out parts are replaced with open-chamber conversion kit ( these are cheap and almost enough to rebuild entire rifle! I've used like eh..... 3 or 4 kits already )
Replaced GunsModify bolt ( low mass bolt rocks )
Gen 2 mags are the suitcase, ditched ALL my old gen mag cases, old valves/parts are now spare parts.
Still my go-to rifle if I'm going to competitions.

Not trying to show off but I think this rifle did pay for itself with the prizes.
 
VFC MK18 MOD1
"Testbed" for my GBBR journey, I found I need to have a WA-ish system to try out wild things, so.....
I initially hate the weird feel, seemed tolerance issue, chewing BBs, keep breaking nozzle etc.
Original valve seemed to have design issues, shaft o-ring allowed to travel OUTSIDE the brass body part, changed to Azimuth and problem solved.
Did "VSR Hop" mod, BB and nozzle issue solved, good accuracy
Alloy hammer keep breaking
Hammer, trigger springs cut in half and still have enough strength to operate, ultra light trigger pull, good for race.
BCG chopped about half in length, replaced by a PVC tube, recoil spring cut short few turns, spacer'd to not allow bolt lock, ultra light recoil with insane speed, good for race.
Sear geometry can be altered easily, good for race.
Things break again easily after a while, in fact the hammer once break DURING a competition and ruined my day, I decided not to invest into this platform again. ( could be more reliable in recent revisions, not sure )
 
KJW KC02
Could be the ultimate skirmish GBB, not using much as I just wanted a 10/22 for collection.

Too hot to a level that could put me in a place where I shouldn't pick up soap.

Reduced nozzle size to prevent the event above.
 
GHK G5
Performer OOTB !!

Gun is LIGHT

Mags are HEAVY
Soft top rail, I would use something with HUGE footprint to mount optics
Changed Action Aluminum Bolt Carrier.
Little to no maintenance, for now.
Perfect for "weekday warrior" after work.
Clicky

 

 

NOTE: I only so semi-auto, in both competition and skirmish.