APS to Cancel / Redesign there range of Shoties.

[Cesare]

I also asked APS and this is the answer I got;

 

" For CAM870, we are still selling parts and accessories. As long as CAM870 is legal in your country, you are still able to sell and ship to you.

We are doing our best to negotiate with the police, explaining to them that CAM870 is just a toy Airsoft Guns. We also modifying our cartridge shell so no stupid people converted them into real firearms. (This is why CAM870 is stopped at this moment) "

 

I wonder how they plan to modify the shells? It is good to know that parts is still being available.

[NonEx]

I just got the exact same reply.

 

My questions were; 

 

 

Hello...

Is it true?

APS CAM870 series discontinued for legal reasons?

((

Even for international customers?

So very very sad

((

What can I do to continue the life of my already purchased APS CAM870? Will there still be product support for the platform even if you do not sell the gun anymore?

Spare parts, accessories etc?

 

 

Response

 

 

We are still selling parts and accessories. As long as CAM870 is legal in your country, you are still able to sell and ship to you.

We are doing our best to negotiate with the police, explaining to them that CAM870 is just a toy Airsoft Guns. We also modifying our cartridge shell so no silly customer will put gun powder inside. (This is why CAM870 is stopped at this moment)

 

 

So while it does not say explicitly that the actual gun won't be available, that's how I interpret it anyways.

[mimesis]

"you are still able to sell and ship to you" = you can still buy it and have it shipped to you ??

[NonEx]

I interpret the response as being applicable for parts and accessories only. Since they have pulled the actual rifles from their website but not the parts and accessories that corroborates that interpretation. 

[NonEx]

I emailed back and asked for clarification on actual shotguns for international customers.

[ShinSeiki]

This is the asahi m40 all over again... I wonder if the CAM870(as it is right now) will have the same collector appeal a few years down the line...

[Safeword]

I kinda want to see what happen but also really tempted to buy another shotgun now, to bad I just used 300$ on parts for mine yesterday

[BioRage]

Means I should grab a SAI 870 CAM BEFORE THEY RUN OUT!?@#!@#@!#

[NonEx]

Too late! I bought up all available stock of those already

 

And then, in 6-12 months, I shall PROFIT by selling them for 3x the current price!

 

(I really only just bought one but whatever...)

 

EDIT: 

 

APS regarding complete shotguns for international sales: 

 

My question; 

 

 

I have to ask to clarify. What about complete CAM870 shotguns? Still for sale internationally? 

 

Response; 

 

 

Yes, as long as CAM870 complete gun is legal in your country, we can ship to you

 

 

So uhhh. I guess I am cancelling my orders then

EDIT: Asia Airsoft APS CAM870 SAI shotgun already shipped . D'oh.

 

Asia Airsoft (on me asking to cancel because it was a panic order since APS pulled the shotgun from the market.)

 

 

 

Chris there has no matter shipping thisbgun out to worldwide, and the order had been ready for. Shipping already

 

 

I would assume the "no matter shipping this gun out to worldwide" resonates what APS are saying that international sales are not affected.

 

 

HOWEVER, I will say this, and I asked this as a new follow up question. It is unlikely they will run two parallel designs of the CAM870 series in the long run. So if you want to be sure to get what is available now, you still might need to act.

 

In the long run I can see the Taiwan / Asia market revised design versions being the only one available. If it comes to that, as they said in the initial response they are trying to work with police etc. to explain that the current model is just "a toy" and "safe enough".

 

Let's hope for that.

[NonEx]

Response to my follow up questions; 

 

Me; 

 

What will happen with the current models/design of the APS CAM870 shotguns when you have redesigned it for the domestic market? Will all models be changed? 

 

And will they be less realistic in function ?

 

APS; 

 

It will be the same model. There are no change in outlook. I mean 99% of the gun part is remain the same. Mechanism and firing mechanism is still the same.

 

We will just change the size of the valve pin of the cartridge shells so user cannot modify it and put gun powder into the shells. The problem is people put gun powder into the shells, thats why HK and Taiwan police want to stop this product.

 

CAM870 is NOT discontinued. We just stop selling them in Hong Kong and Taiwan first because we are negotiating with the police.

 

So, yah.

 

Who wants to buy a brand new in box APS CAM 870 SAI model ?

Nah, I will keep it. Great bang for the buck in terms of parts etc. Look at APS site and pick out the parts composing the SAI model and you will see that $500 USD is a very good deal actually. Adding up the available parts on APS site, which gets you about 2/3rds of the SAI rifle come sout to $900 USD.

Got my SAI for $530 shipped from AsiaAirsoft. woop woop.

 

At least I got a refund from APS on the parts and accessories, hehe.

 

Perhaps I was the only one who panicked though hehe. Sorry about that. 

[swatti]

Kinda saw this news coming sooner or later.

 

I wonder when the APM50 will get hit. It's even more "realistic"

[Skarclaw]

Sad thing is, I doubt it was like, a gang of armed robbers that did this conversion.  Most likely candidate is some twat airsofter with a workshop.  

[GI0VANNI]

Response

 

Quote

 

We are still selling parts and accessories. As long as CAM870 is legal in your country, you are still able to sell and ship to you.

We are doing our best to negotiate with the police, explaining to them that CAM870 is just a toy Airsoft Guns. We also modifying our cartridge shell so no silly customer will put gun powder inside. (This is why CAM870 is stopped at this moment)

 

 

Does this mean that if I buy who knows, a microwave ! and put some gun powder in it they will have to convert the designs to avoid "silly customers" to put gun powder on it??

Because from some years ago and from the UK itself here you have the reason to ban the production of all the existing microwave ovens.

• Like This

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcw6InsDQOg
  
• MultiQuote
   
•  

[Habakure]

Can't really carry a microwave under your coat though can you?

[GI0VANNI]

Too late! I bought up all available stock of those already

 

And then, in 6-12 months, I shall PROFIT by selling them for 3x the current price!

 

 

 

So you are the newest CEO at Cyberscum?? should have told us before...

 

About my fail with the microwave, ok, maybe if I get 200 extra kilograms and then go on a surgery to look like Jabba the Hut I will be able to carry it under my coat??

So far I got to understand you "seemingly guns" regulation to ban "anything that a fag would be able to think that may in some light and presumptions look like could be a gun", ok, but I undertood that the "redesign" was due to the shortie being "readily convertible" not "readily convertible and therefore readily mistakable", so, I send my second torpedo and ask again for the van of microwave ovens, somebody should think about the kids!!

[NonEx]

So APS posted a new press release on Facebook today. Unfortunately only in Chinese and the automatic translation is pretty crappy as usual.

 

But if I understand it correctly the current design is cancelled and a new system will be launched in September?

 

I have emailed APS and asked for a statement in English.

 

Anyone can have a look at the text?

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1127790090625512&id=167499329987931&substory_index=0

 

 

Auto translation; 

 

 

 

Cam870 Players,
The APS CAM after experts. Once again, such as APS cam870 to be converted into the feasibility of firearms, extremely rare branches than doing really great, except for the gang made the gun body, g?ng qi?ng tubes and welding-connected. APS cam870 currently existing structure and energy never launch in violation of the laws of Hong Kong. So from today onwards, APS FROM SUPPLY APS cam870 toy bb gun and bomb shell. Let the players can continue to enjoy the shotgun action of fun. Please continue to support us!
Fortunately, Canada Michael production of "Sai 870", its use of body and g?ng qi?ng g?ng qi?ng tube connecting the way, the same is using cam870 u ring designed to prevent the actual dàn táng withstand pressure power (APS Patent Design). No words to criminals criminals we would be in trouble. Anyway? I don't allow the steel edition, just in case, the suffered! Protection of lovers is the best way!
Their words! Because I wanted to "ZERO" may and cooperate with the United States ATF's point of view, the new cam870 bolt and new cam870 play will be in September this year. And the new design is primarily in ideas or intuition Admiral "firing pin" shadow off, an official experts a look you will know this is a toy instead of real iron, to avoid any more trouble. Client showed up, the criminals can also make up hope. But the new design will not affect like really degrees, operation and twelve grain of bb at the same time the power of the launch, please don't worry! In the new system, new and old cam870 swap sexual as follows :-
1, old APS Cam870 BB gun toys can discharge. New, old two cam870 play;
2, new aps cam870 toy bb gun can only fire new cam870 old play play, I can't use;
3, old APS Cam870 BB gun toys may need to replace the new design of machine guns;
4, at present, all this company supply cam870 with accessories is available for new, old APS Cam870 BB gun toys;
5, in order to facilitate currently owns the old aps cam870 toy bb gun players, this company will be left 5,000 grains old cam870 play to supply market.
APS although commercial institutions, but must be accountable social responsibility to run. Taiwan is time of the incident as unfortunate, purely personal views, and has not appeared or suspected illegal caused by illegal. In any case, the inconvenience caused by this time, the company in this sorry! I also hope that Taiwan client early also to clean!
Thank you again for the support!
**( Friends! If you think this notice worth repost, please please help to repost, let more people know!)

[blobface]

I'll get on it, will try to post the translation this evening. Preliminary TL:DR version would be: 

 

New 870 will be released in September:

 

1) Old versions can fire the new shells (and obviously the old)

2) New version can only fire the new shells.

3) Old version can use the bolt of the new version. 

4) All accessories supplied for the CAM870 is compatible with both new and old.

5) There will be another 5000 shells in the old spec still available on the market for old users. 

[NonEx]

OKi.

 

Response from APS; 

 

 

 

Sorry, there are no English Version for that.

The content is about a release of CAM870 in Hong Kong. We can sell CAM870 in Hong Kong area again.

 

So I guess only Taiwan are being excluded from the current/old style CAM870 design?

 

HK and International are OKi.

 

But again, highly doubtful that they will continue two separate product lines so what is available for the current config will float around but nothing new will be made in that spec. I would assume.

 

Purrhaps I shall purchase me some more shells then

[blobface]

Right, here it is, haven't proof read it properly for Engrish mistakes (switching grammatical orders around can be awkward when translating quickly). In addition to the TL;DR version above, one bummer is that all steel kits in the future will not be given the blessings of APS, so they'll either be very rare, or discontinued forever as of this incident. 

 

Dear Cam870 users:

 

Through our experts' investigation, they have concluded that the feasibility of converting the cam870 into a fully functional firearm is very low, and would be more complicated than making one from scratch, other than manufacturing a steel body, you'd also have to have some form of welded connection. The APS CAM870 does not violet any Hong Kong laws as of now, in terms of its structural design nor its muzzle energy.Therefore from today onwards, we have resumed supplying the product and shells, thanks for all your support.

The Canada Michael Production "Sai 870", while using a steel made body and barrel, are connected with the CAM870 U-ring design in order to avoid being able to withstand the pressure of real shotgun shells (APS patent). In order to avoid any future modification oppurtunity, we will no longer allow for any steel versions of our product to be produced, just in case!

To ensure a zero probability (of illegal modification) and to satisfy the US's ATF's requirements, the new CAM870 bolt and shells will be released this year in September. The new design focuses on removing the firing pin characteristics, allowing experts to be able to immediately tell the difference between this product and a real steel counterpart. Don't worry! The new design will not affect the realistic operation of the product, and it will maintain the 12 bb capacity per shell.

 

1. Old APS CAM870 can fire the new (and old) CAM870 shells.

2. New APS CAM870 can only fire the new shells.

3. Old APS CAM870 are able to take the new bolts.

4. All existing accessories are compatible with both new / old versions.

5. There will be 5000 old spec shells on the market for old users

 

While APS is a commercial entity, we also have some social responsibility. The incident in Taiwan is unfortunate, even though it was escalated by the opinion of a few individuals instead of the Taiwanese law, we would still like to apologies for the inconvenince caused, we wish for our Taiwanese customers to be able to clear their names as soon as possible.

 

Thank you for your support.

 

Fire Fire (Please forward this to those interested)

[swatti]

My PPS shells died on me and there doesn't seem to be any customer service from the maker so plan B. Another brand.

 

Any info on these new shells? More expensive? More powah?

 

Or should I just get a load of the old shells?

[NonEx]

Nothing new as of yet.

 

They stated release around September 2016 so a month left.

 

I would probably wait.

[NonEx]

APS posted a new post that seems related to this and a lot of sad and angry reactions on Facebook over it, but honestly the auto-translation didn't tell me much so maybe someone can assist?

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1217106811693839&id=167499329987931

 

Facebook translation: 

 

 

 

Ladies and gentlemen, fellow players and aps supporters.

Yesterday in Taiwan on the launch of gunpowder cam870 can play. I apologize to you first! This will make the industry on the overcast, even if it is a certain connection with copying the droplet black, but also because of our products and onwards.

The Taichung city wuri police precinct police detained the star and kui cam870 already in June this year. Because this thing on a judicial procedures, I also didn't come out and make a statement or clarification; only after discontinued this product testing and improving the work, and prevent further modified work completed, but also take into account holders cam870 now Players will improve due to the new version have doubts, don't want to give outsiders think to have the opportunity to launch powder play on basic design, too early to avoid the modified, so in July for resale cam870, also there will be no new version.

Happen later, we, too, with the police star fan dong to discuss this thing, also noted that the following points, but because of the police don't want to impede the star for a legal matters, so I can't notice until today, pm by fan dong in new Taipei Television interview Street, dare to speak out about the things that happened, as follows :-

1, taichung city wuri police substation forensic only by a year in may 2014 by Taiwan police university a professor wrote an article "paper" as support, and to take this action, and seized the bureau Never find the modification of the gun.

2, police star because in 2015 years in November that Taiwan police department has issued a document to prove that we aps cam870 without modification is legal under the entrance, trafficking and possession. So, in November 2015 the police only official single entrance.

More Than 3, the first and second point after seeing this, everyone will be surprised, why haven't dispatch the precinct, and grab a paper voucher to go to LA. This point I don't even understand, and heels other Taiwanese friends talked, they said they are government staff often don't look at the document, will only by personal duties. The most surprisingly is why this branch of forensic so fall force?

4, in fact, as early in the year 2014 by Solomon do agents, criminals have been modified our cam870 come really 18.4 mm calibre shotgun, but modified the required degree equivalent zh?ng zh? ever done . Because cam870 is 17.3 mm calibre, can't really play into. Even if i change the barrel for 18.4 mm machine guns, the halfway point of will also be increased with the calibre and different core, also can't fire. Conspicuously in August in Taiwan again on replay.

5, you can believe from web search, in this world is not 17.3 mm calibre of shotgun. And today in the clip can be seen in the play really play 870 whether our products? Or whether it has been modified gun only call 18.4 mm shotgun? Or to make its own a piece of 17.3 mm projectiles to launch is very questionable! And in the first instance, taichung city prosecutor only above said submitted papers as prosecution application (in fact as of today have not formally charged). In this paper, that professor will factory gas move. Loaded on the gunpowder after two metres away Hit a piece of aluminum 0.04 mm film only make trough visible, but today the power of amazing. I'm just poor people suspected to be related with branches real guns to play? Or special effects?

6, our APS cam870 from the first day of the design has been started on prevention is modified hit play, nèi really in a lot of inconvenience to design also announced, because you're afraid of outlaws against points to crack.

7, moreover! Outlaws go modified, how can I forget to manufacturers, importers, store or players?

Anyway! Today I can finally for my products to make a clarification, also a great stone, no dumb ninja! Just in on the whole thing really in the industry, the shadow on the police is also star and kui find trouble here, sorry again. I run aps will also at the same time take into consideration the social responsibility and industry reputation, I hope you are enjoying aps cam870 fun at the same time, it's not made illegal modified!

Finally! APS still believe in "plausible deniability" this four words, axioms must say in good party. Wish police star, kui and related to the store early and clean!