AK12

[PureSilver]

Sigh, always makes me sad that most of these "premium" Kalashs and other pattern rifles remain subpar compared to their armalite competitors, considering how robust the version 3 gearbox is.

 

Interesting, always had the opposite opinion. That you get more bang for your buck with a Kalashnikov AEG.

 

This is my conclusion too. At the budget end of the market, a plastic CM16 and a metal CYMA AK are pretty much equals. However, in the intermediate range an E&L or LCT gun will curbstomp an equivalent G&P or VFC in terms of ruggedness and build quality. Hell, a factory steel outer barrel is still vanishingly rare amongst AR AEGs; that's something even a £140 Forcecore has these days to go with its full-steel receivers, gas tube and small parts. You could use a Type 56 as a stepladder or sledgehammer; if you go through a doorway too fast with a Recoil Shock it'll shatter.

 

I find it really weird that you can't seem to buy a really rugged AR AEG without literally coughing up for a $2,000 FCC or SGT PTW. Where are the ARs with forged receivers and steel components? Hell, why can't I even buy a decent milled receiver for an AEG, when PRIME appear to be literally s***ing them for GBBRs?

[ninja master of coffee]

I think part of it is that people expect to be able to abuse an AK replica so manufacturers have concentrated more on that aspect.

 

Sturm, I think they wanted to seem more up to date but researched a lot of things poorly, see made up uniforms, and incorrectly named camouflage patterns. I would have prefered it if they'd just kept the AK74m also, and maybe had some of the AK100 series as unlockable weapons.

[NeoVeNoM]

Deepfire had a line of AEG's which were very strong. but, there was one big problem. most of them were badly lined out which resulted in bad performance.

 

Also If you want to remove "opposition" you have to more subtle.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.php#axzz4ZtIip9fR

[mimesis]

This is my conclusion too. At the budget end of the market, a plastic CM16 and a metal CYMA AK are pretty much equals. However, in the intermediate range an E&L or LCT gun will curbstomp an equivalent G&P or VFC in terms of ruggedness and build quality. Hell, a factory steel outer barrel is still vanishingly rare amongst AR AEGs; that's something even a £140 Forcecore has these days to go with its full-steel receivers, gas tube and small parts. You could use a Type 56 as a stepladder or sledgehammer; if you go through a doorway too fast with a Recoil Shock it'll shatter.

 

I find it really weird that you can't seem to buy a really rugged AR AEG without literally coughing up for a $2,000 FCC or SGT PTW. Where are the ARs with forged receivers and steel components? Hell, why can't I even buy a decent milled receiver for an AEG, when PRIME appear to be literally s***ing them for GBBRs?

 

Interesting observation.  Does this have anything to do with what the corresponding RS receivers tend to be made out of?  I.e. typically steel vs. typically (?) aluminum.

[Wingmann]

Probably. You can only replicate stamped steel with stamped ferrous sheets, but aluminium bodies can be done with Zinc alloys, and that's a good difference in material's quality.

[Rob15]

Probably. You can only replicate stamped steel with stamped ferrous sheets, but aluminium bodies can be done with Zinc alloys, and that's a good difference in material's quality.

That I would say is the answer to why mid end AKs tend to be made of better and more realistic materials, stamping steel has a a big one off cost of the tooling then fairly low production costs, CNC machining has a big one of cost of the machine/s, tool holding and workholding then a continuous cost of expensive material, cutting tools and time.

 

Aren't Retro Arms doing an AR AEG CNC machined receiver now though?

[NeoVeNoM]

yes they do actually.

https://www.retroarms.com/cnc-receiver/cnc-ar15-receiver-type-a

 

Question remains if it is compatible with most gearboxes on the market.

Also looks like that back end can be screwed loose.

 

If I would buy this I would gamble it safe an take a cnc gearbox from their lineup as well.

[PureSilver]

Interesting observation.  Does this have anything to do with what the corresponding RS receivers tend to be made out of?  I.e. typically steel vs. typically (?) aluminum.

 

Like Wingmann says, I think this boils down to it being quite expensive to mill-finish AR receivers from a forging and very cheap to just injection-mould them, whereas stamping out an AK receiver is probably about the same cost as trying to injection-mould one.

 

yes they do actually.

https://www.retroarms.com/cnc-receiver/cnc-ar15-receiver-type-a

 

That's interesting! Shame it's not a typical milspec AR receiver, but maybe we'll see those later. Knowing RA's creative approach to tolerances I'd probably want to use one of their gearboxes too...

 

As you say, it's also a shame they've stuck with the typical receiver-extension style rather than a proper screw-in buffer tube. Half the point of strengthening the receiver is to reinforce that buffer tube attachment. By using the receiver-extension style you're still relying on a pot-metal casting screwed on to the back of the receiver which will snap in half as soon as you put lateral force on it.

 

Hopefully we'll start seeing more of these in the future. Billet-machined Recoil Shock receivers would be a nice upgrade for the rather flimsy factory ones, for example.

[NeoVeNoM]

With a bit of luck you might be able to fit a GBBR or PTW stock tube and ditch the extension.

[Skarclaw]

Due to licensing issues NPO has pulled this, for now anyway 

 

https://www.facebook.com/NPOAEG/photos/a.586801551343938.1073741825.520345451322882/1486820424675375/?type=3&comment_id=1487459334611484&reply_comment_id=1487587724598645&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R2%22%7D 

[Isamu]

Yep, seems like kalashnikov concern wants to imitate Glock and be the bane of airsoft replicas in Rusia...

[Cesare]

Or someone just forgot to pay...

Well maybe the new version AK12 and AK15 will magically appear in a not to distant future? Maybe together with the MA, the SVK and RPK-16.

[blobface]

Or Cybercun and co *fruitcage* around in the background "Hey IZHMASH, so these companies are copying your design, how about we make a deal and we make sure you get some monies for every replica they sell? We'll do all the middleman work dw."

 

Sorry, uncalled for, entirely baseless accusation but it wouldn't be below them. 

[1st Commando]

It's KC themselves trying to stop any replicas of their products in Russia (including the older ak designs which belonged to a state that no longer exists) .

 

KC have little power outside Russia but as NPO is in Russia they are having to play ball

[Sturm]

It's KC themselves trying to stop any replicas of their products in Russia (including the older ak designs which belonged to a state that no longer exists) .

 

KC have little power outside Russia but as NPO is in Russia they are having to play ball

The Soviet Union may not exist anymore, but the Russian Federation is legally the direct successor of the RSFSR (as per the creation of Russia's constitution in 1993 and the dissolution of the Supreme Soviet). They can probably get away with that fact.

[hitmanNo2]

The Soviet Union may not exist anymore

Tell that to Putin.  I don't think he got the memo ha.

[TheFull9]

Russia seems like such a weird place for companies to get a stiff on about patents/copyrights of airsoft guns; watching their big games, they give comparatively zero *fruitcage*s about safety rules vs western europe.

 

Am I mis-remembering or did those AK-74 AEGs that were meant to be coming straight out of Izmash never appear?  Shame Real Sword seem to have done a vanishing act, they seemed to be the best quality AK available by a long shot.

[Wingmann]

I read recently that Izmash was back on it. If they are pressing with copyrights and such maybe this one is the good one.

[paranoiddroid]

With Kalashnikov Ru trying a few years ago to shut down production of AK's in general and the Russian gov trying to claim that no one but them can produce a gun from the 60's I'm not surprised to see them crack down on the airsoft stuff produced in Russia its a shame but the ak12 isn't that much of a loss to airsoft from a financial point of view so it makes sense that NPO haven't fought it.

 

As this is what the third next evolution AK that the Russians have said will replace the 74 they were always going to end up finding one units upgrade and then running out of money.

 

Your all right about the niggles with the stuff produced though its appalling that they can't even get the same quality of furniture as even your mid tier AKs and casting from none cleaned up print moulds is just lazy especially when the guns are marketed to the guys who really do care about exact replicas and quality.