A cautionary tale of woe regarding Lithium grease!

[The General]

After discussing in another thread how low my opinion is of Lithium grease, I now have concrete evidence of how rubbish it is.

 

First off, the Lithium in the grease, offers no lubrication properties, its simply used as a thickener.

 

Well, my Classic Army G36 was acting up the other day, running very poorly, sounded strange, strained. I had not used it in nearly a year. I tried to chrono the gun but the shots were sounding so bad, I put it away and took it apart a few days later (today)

 

Well, first thing I found was that the grease had become very tacky and sticky. It looked like month old mayonase was dried on every part of the gun. It was a struggle to pull the piston out of the cylinder (by hand). Not thanks to a great air seal either. It was crumbly, tacky and where it was on the gears, the gears could barely move. It was like glue in the gun.

 

I cleaned all the internals and gears etc. Gave the shimming a check. Fitted a nice new bearing spring guide. Put a couple of drops of silicone oil on the O ring and a couple of drops in the cylinder. Used my finger and moved it around. No sign of damage or wear to any of the parts, which is to be expected as this gun has had very little use.

 

Re greased with ceramic Teflon grease (I perhaps used a bit too much) and put the gun back together again.

 

Pulled the trigger and the motor could barely turn the box over, it ran better than before but it sounded terrible. I tried a different motor and POW! The mechbox jumped back to life and after adjusting the motor hight, the box is sounding great. I used a 5SKU torque motor (only spare one I had). The Classic Army motor is stuffed. Its got no power any more. I am convinced after what I saw in the mechbox that the horrible Lithium ###### killed my motor. It was so sticky and tacky, I think it would have strained any motor and drained batteries very quickly. For the record I was testing with a 7.4v 2200mah 25c Lipo at full charge and a fully charged 1500mah 9.6v stick type NiMH.

 

Those stock CA motors are a bit slow and a bit noisy but they have more torque than a TM EG1000 though they are slower. There is no way this motor would have struggled in a 350fps set up with a motor like this. Unless the motor was a bad one or something else was wrong. I have as they say, seen with my own eyes what Lithium does to mechboxes.

 

Avoid this rubbish!

 

My concern now is I have a Classic Army SCAR H and if it has this same rubbish Lithium grease in it, will it suffer the same fate? Am I going to have to open up that mechbox and sort that as well? Not at all impressed. I guess, I am going to have to open the SCAR H and do some preventative work. Otherwise its going to nag at me.

 

So, please can we stop telling people to use Lithium grease in guns?

[DarkLite]

I suspect the reason that everyone (apart from Chinese clones, ironically) uses lithium grease is because TM does. Dunno why.

[Rob15]

None of the TM grease I've seen (in gearboxes or in the tubes they sell) appears to be anything like lithium grease though. I suspect the real reason it's used is because it's cheap, really really cheap.

 

I've said for years that lithium grease is rubbish, the only thing it is ever good for is filling your bin up, in the day and age of far superior synthetic and teflon fortified greases lithium grease is just a complete waste of time and money.

[sniperiain]

i use both, lithium and silicone.

i use the silicone on the piston, cylinder, and plastic metal contact pieces. ive found the lithium grease is good on the gears because of the contact beween metal on metal, the slightly thicker grease is good as it does help, but i only put a small amount on because it can dry on the edge of the box, but i mainly clean my gun every 4000 rounds and have done for a year and a bit now. i think, as you say, the lithium only thickens up the oil used as the lubricant. but it is better than silicnone grease as the viscocity changes with temperature. I.e it gets thinner the warmer is gets, almost turns into an oil. that can then splatter about the gear box, infact ive found silicone grease on the top of the motor, if i accidentally put too much grease in,that could meen new motor......

[The General]

i use both, lithium and silicone.

i use the silicone on the piston, cylinder, and plastic metal contact pieces. ive found the lithium grease is good on the gears because of the contact beween metal on metal, the slightly thicker grease is good as it does help, but i only put a small amount on because it can dry on the edge of the box, but i mainly clean my gun every 4000 rounds and have done for a year and a bit now. i think, as you say, the lithium only thickens up the oil used as the lubricant. but it is better than silicnone grease as the viscocity changes with temperature. I.e it gets thinner the warmer is gets, almost turns into an oil. that can then splatter about the gear box, infact ive found silicone grease on the top of the motor, if i accidentally put too much grease in,that could meen new motor......

 

Which begs the question, why not get some decent quality Teflon grease? You will get none of those problems and its not incredibly expensive. Plus opening your box every 4000 rounds is simply unnecessary.

 

You can get a tube of Finish Line teflon grease for £6-£7 which would last the average airsofter a lifetime. Or a huge tub of Lithium rubbish for a fiver.

 

I just don't understand it...

[C.J.Fox]

Interesting read, thanks for posting your findings. Can I just ask though, how did you go about cleaning out your gearbox? That is, should I avoid using particular cleaning agents, etc.?

 

I've a few old AEGs and as they are perfectly serviceable, I would like to get them cleaned out and back in action but I didn't want to cause any damage in the process.

[Docv400]

Just about any grease will dry out over time, it's not designed to be a 'fit and forget' lubricant.

The only application where it comes close is where it's sealed in, as with some roller/ball bearing races.

 

The internals of a gearbox are quite a hostile place for grease, it gets hot (due to the constant and repetitive compression of air), and there's a continual airflow in and out (due to the pumping effect of the piston) which drags in dust and other debris, both of which cause any grease to dry out and become contaminated.

Add to that storage between games in centrally heated homes and it's a wonder greased gearboxes last as long as they do!

 

It's why I never use any grease in my gearboxes.

Dry Film Lube for the gears, or Molybdenum Disulphide based paste occasionally.

Grease attracts and holds dust, which turns it into a dirty, mild grinding paste eventually.

Silicone spray into the cylinder before/after every game.

Keeps the o-ring in perfect condition and helps flush out any c##p that finds it's way in during use, especially on dry/dusty days.

 

Edit;

C.J.Fox, Clean the parts with some sort of solvent, carburettor or brake cleaner spray is OK.

I'm lucky in that I have access to a small ultrasonic cleaner, gets the parts cleaner than new, and also a small sandblaster with a very fine 'honing' powder, it gives the gear teeth and gearbox shells a perfect finish for the Dry Film Lube to adhere to.

[Rob15]

Interesting read, thanks for posting your findings. Can I just ask though, how did you go about cleaning out your gearbox? That is, should I avoid using particular cleaning agents, etc.?

 

I've a few old AEGs and as they are perfectly serviceable, I would like to get them cleaned out and back in action but I didn't want to cause any damage in the process.

If you want to clean gearboxes out Fenwicks FS-1 is extremely good.

 

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fenwicks-fs1-bike-cleaner-1-litre-bottle/

 

FS-1 is concentrated and you can either use it neat or mix it in a ratio of 100ml to 1l of water, or anywhere inbetween depending on what you are cleaning. I use that mixed to give me 10L from each bottle of concentrate and use it for virtually everything, be it cleaning gearboxes, GBB mechs, externals of guns and even my desk since it's safe to use on most things (including rubber and plastics), plus it smells nice and won't strip the skin off your hands

[The General]

Interesting read, thanks for posting your findings. Can I just ask though, how did you go about cleaning out your gearbox? That is, should I avoid using particular cleaning agents, etc.?

 

I've a few old AEGs and as they are perfectly serviceable, I would like to get them cleaned out and back in action but I didn't want to cause any damage in the process.

 

I used silicone oil to wet the lithium and used paper towels till they were clean as a whistle. I could not get all of the lithium off the gear teeth even after scraping with a small screwdriver for a while. Just got most of it off and regreased. Figured it was acceptable compromise.

[Rob15]

A tip for getting rid of lithium grease I learned while working for a highstreet tat retailer is to spray WD-40 onto it* and then degrease it all after, that should turn the lithium grease to near water consistency and it should just run off.

 

*In a well ventilated area, a luxury I didn't have when I used to have to do it

[The General]

Just about any grease will dry out over time, it's not designed to be a 'fit and forget' lubricant.

The only application where it comes close is where it's sealed in, as with some roller/ball bearing races.

 

The internals of a gearbox are quite a hostile place for grease, it gets hot (due to the constant and repetitive compression of air), and there's a continual airflow in and out (due to the pumping effect of the piston) which drags in dust and other debris, both of which cause any grease to dry out and become contaminated.

Add to that storage between games in centrally heated homes and it's a wonder greased gearboxes last as long as they do!

 

It's why I never use any grease in my gearboxes.

Dry Film Lube for the gears, or Molybdenum Disulphide based paste occasionally.

Grease attracts and holds dust, which turns it into a dirty, mild grinding paste eventually.

Silicone spray into the cylinder before/after every game.

Keeps the o-ring in perfect condition and helps flush out any c##p that finds it's way in during use, especially on dry/dusty days.

 

Edit;

C.J.Fox, Clean the parts with some sort of solvent, carburettor or brake cleaner spray is OK.

I'm lucky in that I have access to a small ultrasonic cleaner, gets the parts cleaner than new, and also a small sandblaster with a very fine 'honing' powder, it gives the gear teeth and gearbox shells a perfect finish for the Dry Film Lube to adhere to.

 

 

Now I never said it was a matter of greasing and forgetting about it did I? Doing the box once a year for the average gun is plenty. Unless its used heavily (support gun) or has a dunk in something nasty. I have several guns so I probably only use my guns maybe 2 or 3 times a year between them. My TM P90 being the exception as I use that perhaps 6 or 7 times a year. I might get through 3k-5k shots in a full day average.

 

Opening a gun once a year for a service is about right for me. Perhaps once every 18 months.

[Docv400]

Now I never said it was a matter of greasing and forgetting about it did I? ...

 

No.

Nor did I imply it, I was just stating a fact .

 

Whether an AEG is used a little or a lot, the grease will still dry out in in time, just during storage in a warm place.

 

If your grease is in good condition when you open a box, then you're OK, but the amount I've seen with dirty contaminated grease in suggests that most players leave it way too long between services, usually only getting it done after something's failed .

[C.J.Fox]

Thanks for the info everybody, some very helpful comments. I do enjoy tinkering with the AEGs, although some times they can be a quite infuriating when you get a little awkward piece that doesn't want to go back where it belongs. I'll try out some of the suggestions and get my old kit back up and running like new, hopefully!

 

It all makes sense to have things greased well, saves the motor, other parts and batteries too, I suspect you'll get better 'value' from them when everything is running smoothly.

[P.S.I.]

I use DOW 33.

It's a lithium AND silicone; is resistant to oxidation, moisture, & corrosive atmospheres; is inert; safe on most plastics; and has a service temp range of -100 to 400 F (-73 to 204 C).

 

I've been using it for over 10 years and never had any problems with it.

[ThumpMaster6]

I swear by SuperLube here in 'the States'...it is available at most hardware stores, and I get mine...er, GOT, since a tube of the stuff lasts forever!...at Harbor Freight. It seems to adhere well inside, does NOT turn gummy or sticky with age, and you can even squirt it out of a syringe into bearing races from the outside without disassembling, as you would pack bearings for a car or bike wheels.

 

http://www.super-lube.com/synthetic-multipurpose-grease-ez-49.htm?zenid=fe8c3669c7c13c0499541aff6f609a72

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/85-gram-super-lube-grease-cartridge-93744.html

 

Good stuff...give it a try. $6 will last you a long, LONG time, even at a shop bench level-of-use.

 

Thumpy...OVER

[ManMarin3]

I'm with Thumpy here, the super-lube stuff is the business, goes awesome in gas guns as well for those of us who are that way inclined.

[PianoBlack]

I'm in the States and I also use a couple of the Finish Line products which I was introduced to when rebuilding older Shimano 600 bottom bearings and headsets. Like The General said, it's really inexpensive and does a solid job. As for removing lithium grease, I found that a short soak in Simple Green and hot water tends to get most of the older stuff off with little effort.

-Piano

[Wingmann]

I use it for metal on metal contact on the outside of the guns, mainly pistol slides, the M-14 receiver parts and so on. It's easy to spot when it's not in good shape and even easier to remove and re-apply.

It's also good enough for the piston rails, but I wouldn't use it inside the cylinder or on the gears.

[Wild_XIII]

It's interesting reading this. I've been using white lithium grease for a very long time with no problems what so ever. I have been looking into the benefits of the other Teflon based greases but never actually got round to getting any. I have a big can of 3-in-one white lithium and all of the guns I've used it in have been running great.

 

Just my personal experience with it.

[jv83]

I also use super lube, and it seems like very good quality.

 

I use k-c trouble free for o-rings and such. Also seems very good.

[danielsilva]

I just use GOG Gr33se and HATER Marmalade which can be found in nearly all paintball stores, but it's just DOW 33 in a fancy name ( although HATER Marmalade has a thickening agent and it's thicker than stock DOW 33 ).

 

I also use Tuf-Glide ( use it on all steel parts ) and Hi-Slip grease ( use it on low maintenance parts like the buffer and buffer springs on my GBBR's ) both from Sentry Solutions.

[Krispy101]

Another Super-Lube user here, it's available in the UK at:

 

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=134876

 

I had a nightmare finding it, these have it, deliver quickly, and have great prices!

 

It's perfect for everything airsoft-related!