[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

It's been a while since I posted but I have still been watching the thread loosely. I have a couple of questions. I own two of the first batch of CO2 mags, what do people mean by "new type" CO2 mags? What has changed? I get about 26 shots out of a full CO2 bulb!

 

I am also interested in knowing if anyone knows of a better replacement bolt catch. I have recently fitted a MagPul BAD lever and a RS pin for the bolt catch (ping pong paddle) but the WE standard catch is way too loose.

 

Thanks and Merry Christmas to all,

 

Mark

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Has anyone managed to fix their semi/auto burst issues yet? I have some more spare parts on the way to swap out in a desperate attempt to get mine fixed, still struggling.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Issues with my v.1, are inconsistent power, double burst shots on semi - auto

 

Atfer trying long and hard to solve my post CO2 upgrade issues I still have exactly the same problems Nazio. To be honest I have given up trying to solve it right now. I was hoping a solution would appear in the community or a fix of some sort would come from WE. There really does seem to be a fundamental issue somewhere, but I certainly can't locate it!

 

Cant used the old brass nozzles with the Co2 setup, unfortunately.

 

Different shape and just wont work. Must use the old 'non Co2 setup' (gas only).

 

Maybe if WE is listening again, they will make a new Co2 nozzle out of steel with smaller windows/ports like the old brass nozzle heads.

 

There is no question there is some issue with the WIDE OPEN PORTS on the steel nozzles, gas and Co2. It needs some revision.

 

Since my CO2 upgrade I have rebuilt my rifle so many times I lost count and I simply can't find any component at fault. Nothing is loose or misaligned. All the mechanical parts appear to operate correctly, pins and springs secure. If I compare the config to my pre-upgrade state it's all good. The issues I have only appeared after the CO2 upgrade and I am unable to solve them. I have noted your points a couple of times Otto and I think there must be something worth looking into here.

 

Can you provide any feedback on the issues some of us upgrading to CO2 are experiencing WE?

 

My major issues are:

• Inconsistent FPS
• 28 shots per CO2 bulb
• With semi selected I mostly get two or three shot bursts

I haven't even tried to hop or scope this in since I bought it (Dec 2008), there is simply no point until all issues are ironed out. I intended to use my M4 for tactical carbine training but this is just a pipe dream at the moment, my patience is wearing very thin.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Quick update: my semi/auto burst issue is still not fixed and I still have no idea as to the cause. Thanks go to those who have tried to help so far. I have reassembled my entire gun so many times I lost count and nothing appears worn, in the wrong place or stuck/sticking. I get a consistent 28/29 shots from a single CO2 bulb and my chrono tests have been very inconsistent. I would really like someone to confirm the correct assembly of the trigger parts and where/how the springs should be placed when reassembling the unit. A clutching at straws theory but if the hammer spring was strong enough it could stop the bolt from completing a full cycle and hence cause a similar burst effect. This might also cause more gas to be used as the trigger might not fully reset causing the mag to be in a release state for longer than normal.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

As I said. With the ASAP installed you cannot screw the tube in the way you should. Those two "knobs" on both sides won't let you do the last turn.

 

"you cannot screw the tube in the way you should", in my case at least in certainly not correct, no offence but are you sure your ASAP is installed as per instructions? is it a real Magpul or a copy?

 

I know which knobs you are describing but they don't interfere with the installation of the buffer tube at all. As I mentioned previously I couldn't screw the buffer tube in any further if I wanted to as it is already flush with the buffer tube retaining pin.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Marky[uE] did You recently try to install quick detach sling swivel?

 

I installed a Magpul ASAP sling mount a fair while back, long before I started having my semi/auto burst issues. If the Magpul ASAP is installed correctly then it doesn't change anything over the standard part it replaces. That being said I can confirm that the buffer tube is now in an improved position, if I could screw it any further in it would be past the buffer retaining pin. And as mentioned this change has not corrected my issue.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

My semi/auto issues, the latest update. After a private message from TrooperX, thanks for the help, I double checked the positioning of my buffer tube and the buffer retaining pin. They could both be improved so I have tightened the pin and refitted the buffer tube. Unfortunately the semi/auto burst issue still exists. After a number of counts during my mag tests I can also confirm that the number of shot cycles per mag stands at 28. I suppose this shows consistency somewhere, back to the drawing board.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

I am glad that you guys have sorted the problems.

@Marky[uE] - First video on auto which WETTI did show here - one capsule one mag.

 

As per my later update I have NOT managed to remove the semi/auto burst issue but it's certainly reduced in frequency.

 

I also remember the earlier CO2 full auto video WETTI did where the bulb appeared to manage a single mag. I should be so lucky, I am not even getting a full mag usig the semi/burst mode I currently have I do think that my two issues could still be related somehow. I just have keep going until I figure everything out and remember to stop whenever I feel like throwing something out of the window

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Correction, after further testing my semi/auto issue still exists since I added part #117

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Hi all,

 

Just got my TSC Uni Guide Rod from Airsoft123, once again great service. My one has the locking screw for it, the screw head is TINY though and none of the Allen Keys I have at home will fit so will pop down to the hardware store later to see if I can find one.

 

I'm having a few problems with installing it though, the main problem is I can't seem to get the stock Part 38 out (the entire Valve Guide Rod housing assembly) out.

 

I've removed as many parts as possible (Part 36, the roller bearing assembly on top of the bolt, the nozzle assembly etc).

 

Here is where I am upto

 

I can't seem to find the white block near the rear end of the bolt on the exploded diagram...

 

Thanks in advance

 

The white block is not on the exploded diagram as it was added to align the nozzle assembly and guide rod after earlier problems. This is commonly called the valve or guide rod stabiliser. It might have been glued to ensure it doesn't move forward during normal use. Part #38 can be a real pig to get out as the stabiliser can have a pretty good grip on it. I normally get round this by first removing bolt #36 and then extending the nozzle and guide rod forward. This allows the two holes through part #38 to be used. I take a small cross head screwdriver and push that through the holes. For the next part it's best to hold the bolt in a workmate bench or similar and then very gently and carefully either twist #38 left to right with pressure in a sort of corkscrew fashion or tap one edge of the screwdriver gently with a hammer to knock #38 out. Please be VERY CAREFUL if you decide to do this I can't take any responsibility for the outcome but it works for me. Also be careful not to lose part #37, this can be placed in the gap at the bottom of the stabiliser when rebuilding and aligned via the hole for bolt #36 using a screwdriver.

 

Let me know if you have any thoughts or further questions. I really hope this helps or gives you some other ideas.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

What about part #117 ? Is it in place ? Didn't You forget to take it out from old propane system ?

 

Update on my semi/auto issues. This post stopped me in my thoughts. I had previously managed to convince myself that the new design CO2 system no longer required part #117, it must have been the bottle of wine that clouded my judgement. I have just reassembled my barrel with part #117 in place and the semi/auto issue seems, at the moment, to have been resolved still not getting many shots out of a mag though so there is at least one problem left to figure out.

 

If you push the release valve on a full CO2 mag when not in the gun should the pressure return the release valve after letting only a small amount of gas out? mine don't and I wondered if the valve seals had moved during assembly. I had to rebuild both my original green/propane gas mags due to poorly fitted valves where the seals had moved.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Only thing I can suggest at this point is going back to all stock internal parts except the c02 bolt and seeing if you have the same issue and then add them one at a time.

 

Do you get garbage performance on propane too?

 

I upgraded the stock trigger parts after the problem started to occur in an attempt to resolve the issue. As you say not much left to try so maybe a full stock rebuild is in order. I have run out of green/propane gas so I can't confirm how that works at the moment.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

If you weren't a million miles away i'd take a look at it just for the learning experience.

 

If you play with the trigger mech manually with your finger, holding down the trigger and moving the hammer around in semi, can you reproduce the doubleshot burst?

 

Yeah I wish I had a WE owner nearby with some fresh eyes.

 

I spent about twenty minutes staring at the trigger unit doing just that earlier but alas no cigar.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

pics!!

 

Oh yeah. I'm about to install the chromebarrel as well and recall the bad QC of the HU rubbers. I ordered 3 extras as well. Is there some kind of quick check to figure out which rubber is good and which isn't?

 

Don't wanna take the whole barrelsection apart several times.

 

And I'd love to see PMAG for the WE M4 and Scar. Or only modified PMAG bodies. So you could use your current magazine internals.

 

I will get some pics done when I don't feel like throwing in the towel... getting mighty close at the moment

 

Double check Ottos post on page #239 regarding rubber selection. That's the only info I can recall.

 

I have taken the barrel apart lots of times now and it's a real pain in the neck.

 

A PMAG or a PMAG outer would be really nice.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Are you certain your valve knocker doesn't get stuck? This happening on a GBB handgun usually comes out with half the gas efficiency which is why it comes to mind. It could be that your knocker gets stuck forwards, lets loose a couple or so rounds with the gas continuously purging when it shouldn't, wastes your gas until a third or so shot jolts it lose and closes your valve again.

 

Thanks for the suggestion I just removed and rebuilt the trigger unit again to check. Safe, semi and auto modes are working exactly as they should including the valve knocker. Tried another mag after rebuild, no change.

 

For reference my rifle mechanical specification is currently as follows:

 

WE M4 GBB AFC Custom v2 from Airsoft Buddy

 

Upgrades:

7075 aluminium charging handle

LAT bearing set

TSC steel hammer

TSC steel sear

TSC steel match trigger type 1

TSC anti-rotation pin type 2

Full CO2 upgrade kit

262mm Precision chrome inner barrel with new hop-up

 

and lots of furniture changes

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Well let me break down the problem as best I can which is usually how I solve things.

 

Assumptions:

-Gun is not getting very many shots per mag

-Mag is not leaking

-Gun does not crono very high

-O ring seals are good

 

So the gas is going "somewhere" just not forward, If the seal between the mag and bolt was bad, it would take more gas to start the blowback and reset the hammer, which might give you that behavior.

 

Or it could be the bolt itself binding or leaking gas, causing more to be required to blow it back and reset the hammer, it could be anything from a bad seal, to the nozzle not sealing all the way forward, to that plastic spacer rubbing on something and slowing the bolt down.

 

Just checked everything I can think of and performed some more tests.

 

1 CO2 bulb managed to shoot 28 rounds

All rounds were fired with semi selected, around 12 trigger pulls resulted in double/triple shot bursts. It's difficult to know if all these resulted in a round being chambered and fired.

Both mags are operating in the same way and don't have any leaks, suggesting the fault is in the gun.

Chrono of a full mag started mid 440fps and ended at 328fps going down over the course of the magazine, some readings failed. I don't consider this consistent or useable.

The front o-ring seal on the CO2 nozzle is pretty ragged to be honest, shame I can't get any replacements locally at the moment. #122 is fine and all other seals appear fine.

Mags seat into #112 correctly and the seal is solid and square on.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Make sure the hole in part 112 (valve housing) that the CO2 passes thorugh is aligned centrally so that outlet on the mag lines up with it perfectly. My part 112 was loose and when the holes didnlt line up I was getting less than a mag out of each CO2 bulb - now I'm getting 2 mags worth. (See page 285 - mine and Nazios posts).

 

Not sure why this affects the gas consumption as surely the same amount of gas is being released from the mag each hammer strike? You'd think it would only affect the amount of CO2 being put down the barrel! Or have I completely misunderstood things??!!

 

After a quick double check on part #112 it is secure and in the correct position.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Mine is v.1 with CO2 conversion. I can confirm that fps after fitting up CO2 nozzle (bought in TQM shop) dropped to 350 - 380 fps. I did chrono at last milsim. But i experience often double shoots on semi. Something like short serie on auto. Also bolt cach is not operating on every CO2 mag, on propane does.

 

Sounds like we have the same issues here. How many shots can you get out of a full mag?

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

seems that the white spacer at the rear of the bolt was not seated far enough back

 

I am still trying to diagnose my semi/auto issue. I had noticed that my hammer roller was hitting the white stabiliser. Based on your findings (different issue I know) I decided it was worth cutting about 3 to 4mm off the end of the stabiliser. It might have improved the situation a little i.e. less auto when semi is selected but it's certainly not resolved I have also counted my shots and I can't get a full mag out of a single CO2 bulb at the moment, I really hope that these issues are related. The CO2 nozzle is supposed to be a 350-380 configuration so if anyone has a working CO2 rifle using this set-up let me know. I have tried branded with lube and no name without lube CO2 bulbs and they both act exactly the same.

 

I just want my rifle to work and I have no idea why it's acting like this it should be running well right now

 

WETTI, do you have any experience with this issue or any suggestions?

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

To the guys having problems with semi-auto, here's how it works on the WE and is surprisingly the same with WA/G&P/AGM which is to say the same with real AR15s. Some guys over the AGM thread kept on babbling about their hammer and sears not working like the real thing and so shouldn't be reviewed by the ATF . My drawings aren't exact, but the principle is.

 

Having no semi would mean that #54 isn't catching unto the hammer. Either the contact surface of the hammer or part #54 is to blame, you'd have to check for yourself.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to put this together it has confirmed a few assumptions. Using your diagrams and notes I can't say I have any reason to find fault with the way part #54 is working particularly since the TSC steel parts upgrade. My hammer and sear have a strong bite when they do connect. I wonder if the bolt carrier is failing to push the hammer far enough back/down to engage #54, my upgraded bearing roller appears to sit slightly lower than the stock one when running under the carrier, this might be lower still with the TSC hammer. Also the strength of the hammer spring might affect this, can anyone explain the correct placement of the hammer spring when assembling the trigger unit?

 

Still need to obtain some gas to see if the problem still exists for that source.

 

Once again thanks for your time and assistance.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Does your fire selector work consistently is the gun is used with regular propane?

 

Good question, don't have any working std. gas mags or gas at the moment. Might have to borrow some and test this.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

I have NOT help anyone here...isn't that the truth?

 

IMHO This is simply not true!

 

Obviously everyone is entitled to and has their own expectations as to the level of interaction and information they expect when a commercial user enters a discussion thread. That being said I think we can all forget that this work is generally done outside working hours and although it may be primarily promotion based, it is also done to help the community/customers and to become involved. These particular users are more than likely enthusiastic about their business and/or product and enjoy the additional interaction. There is however a risk, particularly with the internet, of this work attracting a lot of negativity. The internet is not filled with 200+ page threads filled with "My widget mark 2 is perfect", these users just stay at home for the most part. To put my thoughts into perspective one company I work for recently promoted a free prize draw at a large convention. We spent a couple of meetings prior discussing how to make the draw as professional as possible, and then an evening deliberating the types of prizes to give away based upon what our customers tend to buy. We have many loyal customers but the community in general still found time to complain about the value of the prizes, when and how we held the prize draw, the fact they didn't win?! or couldn't choose another prize instead etc. We were devastated, most of these people didn't even buy anything that day. We worked very hard to put it all together and then spent a lot of money to host it. It was not promotion as such but rather giving something special back to our customers for the convention. That event we lost a substantial amount of money and felt pretty unappreciated I can tell you. Anyway I digress, just my thoughts...

 

if there is so much help here why cant i find out why my c02 bolt carrier doesnt work but my green gas one does

 

You should attempt to explain your issue in the best way you can before anyone can make suggestions and help you find a fix. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum but you haven't provided enough information to work with.

 

So will you help remedy all the problems I experienced after I parted with my hard earned cash?.....not that anyone cares as this is only the grumblings of an old man!

 

Chris, that's some serious frustration and finger pointing flowing from your keyboard. Are you ok? What's stressing you out? Bad weekend? No beer left? Genuine full blown WETTI frustration?

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Take out your trigger unit and look at your selector, there's a notch on your selector that lets you have full auto, the sear that interfaces that notch is probably the problem.

 

My semi/auto issues also started after converting my V2 to CO2. I recently rebuilt the trigger unit with the upgraded TSC parts for the sear, hammer and trigger. When rebuilding I was unsure as to the correct position and alignment of the hammer spring so this might not be 100% but it does seem to work correctly, hopefully the wiki will be updated in this area over the weekend. The trigger unit is rock solid and the fire selector seems to work well and holds a solid position for safe, semi and auto. This is why I am now struggling, as previously mentioned I need a decent explanation or drawings to show how the selector works i.e. solid vertical for semi and slight angle (towards the stock) for full auto. My best guess is that the CO2 pressure is either too strong or inconsistent to the point where it doesn't allow the semi to cycle correctly by either falling short of a cycle or missing the point at which a single shot cycle is complete. Or that the part designed to stop the cycle after a shot is simply too weak to deal with the pressure. Since fitting CO2 the kick is substantially stronger. I will chrono the shots to get an idea of consistency when I get a chance.

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Can anyone explain how the fire selector controls the switch from semi to full auto? I am trying to come up with causes for the inconsistent semi/auto issues I am experiencing. Thoughts so far include:

 

1) Gas pressure

2) Recoil spring

3) Trigger unit... !? fire selector

 

I am struggling on this one and so far have had no responses and no success on Google. Thanks, Mark

[WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine]

Almost finished. Only thing missing is a silver 10" barrel.

 

Looking really nice, where did you get the flash from and what thread is it?

 

On another note has anyone read my earlier post re semi/auto issues, I am really struggling here.