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tome

Well MP7 (R-4)

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I'm going to apologise in advance to those of you expecting a proper in depth review. I'm not going to do one of those because frankly this thing has ###### me off and so I con't be bothered. Anything that you'd like to know that i haven't covered, feel free to post a reply :)

 

The R-4 is billed as a 100% replica of the TM MP7 and it very nearly is. The only obvious difference that i could see was that the LHS fire selector was larger than the TM version. Internally the design seems to be a pure copy from what i can tell in comparing exploded diagrams (don't own a TM MP7). Some parts are made of cheaper materials, such as nickle for the contacts rather than copper.

 

The R-4 is well presented and protected in it's styrofoam packaging. The set includes a lowcap, battery, charger and two allen keys for diassembly. All rails are metal as are the back plate and flip up sights. The charger is a 220v which is a bonus. The battery is 50mAh short of its TM counterpart but otherwise seems fine.

 

Picking up the R-4 it feels marginally lighter than the MP7 and a little less solid. Pushing the stock catch up releases the stock, which slides smoothly (unlike a brand mew TM one) until it locks in place. The stock feels pretty solid in the shoulder and in no danger of breaking easily. Fold down front handle and it feels solid when locked in place and feels just as good as the TM one. Flip up sight are a bit sticky but when up they stay up. Fire selector doesn't click on the way down and because the LHS one is bigger than the real deal, can interfere with your thumb and slide into semi!!!!

 

Performance-wise. After a 100 shot run-in, the crono gave 240 with 0.2g bbs. The rate of fire was approximately 8.5 per second on a fully charged battery. Hop is pretty much non-existant, though the barrel was filled with some thick lube which i wiped off with a barrel cleaning rod. Feeding from the 35 round metal locap was flawless. The R-4 can take MAG midcaps smoothly, dropping the mag when the mag release is activated. Feeding from these 100 round midcaps was also flawless. The trigger was very stiff towards the end of the pull resulting in poor accuracy from having to pull so bloody hard.

 

Having bought the R-4 to upgrade i proceeded to open it up. First problem spotted was that half of one battery contact was bent. This fortunately was an easy fix. Decided to abandon the original batter and attached a deans connector and a 7.4v 650mah lipo and acheived 15 shots per second and much quicker first shot response.

 

The trigger contact was found to have a poorly finished plastic carrier and no lube at all, resulting in the horrible trigger pull. A quick cut with a craft knife and a careful squirt of lube got the trigger feeling smooth but mushy.

 

The gearbox appears well put together sounded pretty smooth. The gears themselves seem look to be of good quality. However, installing the bearing bushings showed up the poor manufacturing tolerances immediately. The gear that picks up the piston and the one immediately connected to it would bind at certain points in their revolutions. I put this down to poor quality gears axles that aren't straight. Being brazen i changed the bushings back to nylon for one gear, allowing them to only bind ever so slightly, and did a ROF test and got 16 rps. The bearing spring guide fitted without incident.

 

The most surprising problem was the one i encountered next. Putting the hop unit onto the laylax tighbore was a breeze and the hop did seem to be well constructed. The problem came when trying to put the barrel back through the fire control part. The normal barrel would slide through easily. The laylax barrel....... got stuck. While it was possible to push the barrel through, the only way to extract is was to push it back out using the original barrel. This meant that the spring on the front of the hop had no hope of pushing the hop back onto the nozzle. This problem was overcome by sticking a shim on a screw at the front of the fire control part, which provided enough clearence to get the barrel through.

 

Since there was nearly no hop effect, i fashioned my own hop bucking out of silicon wire insulation and put it in. After the upgrades i did a fire test. The hop still pretty much had no effect most of the time, with a few shots every so often that managed a flat trajectory. Most surprisingly the FPS had dropped to 230. Admitted this could be due to the improvised hop bucking pushing into the chamber even with the hop turned off, but really these upgrade would have taken a TM MP7 up to about 260-270fps.

 

I am going to take the bearings out of the R-4 before they break due to abnormal lateral forces. Also i'll try washing the hop sleeve in detergent to see if the lack of effect is from residue of that thick lube that i found in the barrel.

 

Overall I'd say that the manufacturing tolerances of the R-4's parts are way to relaxed. This has resulted in the R-4 not being compatible with some important upgrade parts. Despite this, the performance out of the box is not too bad if you don't count the ineffective hop. If it turns out that the hop con't be improved though, that would be a great hinderence to such a low fps gun.

 

My advice would be to only get it if you're thinking of using upgrading with a spring and spring guide, as the other parts don't seem to fit. Fitting a lipo has given it a respectable rate of fire though, so it might work well as a CQB backup.

 

Any other questions... please ask :)

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I don't mean to sound argumentative but anyway...

 

You say you don't own a TM MP7 for reference but the R4 feels lighter and less well constructed.

How do you know this if you don't own a TM one for comparison?

 

You say you replaced the bushes with bearing-bushes and THEN noticed problems with the gears.

Also, you say you replaced the barrel and modified the hop-up and THEN found the FPS had dropped.

 

Excuse me for saying so but it seems as though your handiwork might be the problem rather than the gun.

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I don't mean to sound argumentative but anyway...

 

You say you don't own a TM MP7 for reference but the R4 feels lighter and less well constructed.

How do you know this if you don't own a TM one for comparison?

I got the chance to play around with a TM MP7 at wolf armouries store in london. In the two or three minutes that I had with the TM I became well aware of how significantly better the TM felt than the Well.

 

You say you replaced the bushes with bearing-bushes and THEN noticed problems with the gears.

Also, you say you replaced the barrel and modified the hop-up and THEN found the FPS had dropped.

I noticed the problems with the gears after I changed the bearings to bushings. That may call my handiwork into question, however, when i replaced them with original nylon bushings the problem disappeared. I guess the other possiblity is a duff set of Deep Fire bushings, but really who do you trust more for quality control? Deep Fire or Well?

 

I'd have to say that i agree with the high probablility that my hop mod had something to do with the low fps after upgrade. However, that mod was only deemed a necessary experiment after i found that i had practically no hop effect at all. Pre-mod, winding in more hop only resulted in lowering the FPS but i felt it was worth a go at trying a bucking.

 

Excuse me for saying so but it seems as though your handiwork might be the problem rather than the gun.

If you try replacing a barrel on the MP7 you'll see that there's not a lot to get wrong. There isn't even a bucking for you to lose, so i doubt that I would have messed that bit up.

 

I tried to put this together as carefully as i could. Even though it's the first time that i've upgraded an MP7 it's most definately not the first time i've been inside an AEG. The gears were not at all properly shimmed when i opened it up with milimeters of slack in each of the gears. The casting of the gearbox is also far from perfect, most noticably on the edges where the cylinder is exposed.

 

Try to upgrade your own Well MP7 (I think i saw on a thread somewhere that you now have one). If you are succesful then we can put mine down to being a lemon. Post up your experiences of your Well R-4 and hopefully we can help our fellow airsofters make an informed choice. Does your HOP work?

 

When i get the chance I'll test and chrono my MP7 as it is now, only upgraded with the tightbore and bearing spring guide. I've also cleaned up the hop with washing up detergent to see it that makes a difference and removed the improvised bucking.

 

Insane Joe - You must be one of the lucky ones. From what i've read the stock rps on the TM is about 10-12, correct me if i'm wrong though. To be fair the Well Ni-Cd had not been run-in properly.

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I'd have to say that i agree with the high probablility that my hop mod had something to do with the low fps after upgrade.

 

I tried to put this together as carefully as i could.

 

Try to upgrade your own Well MP7 (I think i saw on a thread somewhere that you now have one). If you are succesful then we can put mine down to being a lemon. Post up your experiences of your Well R-4 and hopefully we can help our fellow airsofters make an informed choice. Does your HOP work?

Ok, you took that well. :D

 

I really just wanted to raise the issue so that people could read your answers.

FWIW, you've been very honest to respond in the way you have.

 

I'm still waiting for my MP7 to arrive. I will definately cobble together a bit of a write-up of it when it arrives.

I definately won't be attempting to upgrade it though. I think AEPs, in general, are too fiddly and highly stressed to mess with a great deal and I think clone AEPs, in particular, are probably too near the limit of their reliability to safely add many upgrades.

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Thanks Stealth.

 

I'd say it's worth trying a TM battery in the Well to see if it ups the ROF. For me 8-9 RPS was just a bit too slow.

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just got my r4. here's my take.

 

a bit disappointed at first due to the plasticky parts: mag, pistol grip, buttstock plate, & vertical foregrip. seams at the foregrip and pistol grip do not fit well. foregrip does not stay locked at the forward position. missing front sight adjustment screw. greasy bb feeder tube (i suspect this is oozing out from the greasy mekbx).

 

good points? enough metal parts, good enough (for an aep) fps, ok rof. very functional controls except for the mushy trigger and mushy fire selector. has heft and good balance but would be a chore for one-hand shooting (unless you're a big guy or else have powerful forearms :) ).

 

overall build is so-so. well is definitely behind JG, CYMA and even BE in this area.

 

no major problems (crosses fingers :unsure:): no misfeeds, no misfires, no extraneous noises.

 

bottomline, good value for the price. but then, i'm an ACMer so am used to qc issues in the clones. should be good for backyard games and, in a pinch, indoor cqc (but not mout milsim). with a stronger spring, bushings, good shimming, tight barrel, leak sealing and a better batt this baby will rock as the little brother to my galaxy and g3 SAS. ;)

 

definitely not replacing the K or the gbb as sniper backup, yet. upgraded, i'll be confident enough to display it on a chest rig :rolleyes:

 

cheers,

zT :assassin:

 

p.s.: i only got one allen key ;)

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Can I just ask....

 

Ive just bought a TM battery for mine, the 7.2V Micro EX and the damn thing is about 4mm longer so wont fit in the gun.

Has anyone actually managed to get the TM battery to fit yet?

Appreciate any advice.

Thanks

Alex

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I have both the TM and the Well now and comparing the front part that holds the battery in, the two tabs that push on the battery are longer in the Well than the TM. As an experiment i put the Well battery in the TM MP7 and it would only work using the well front end :)

 

So....... solution would probably be to cut down the two tabs on the front part and then use a spacer when you need to use the original R-4 battery.

 

On a side note,.... my TM highcap that refuses to work in my TM MP7 works perfectly on the R-4!!

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tx for the info, tome. got an inkling that tabs could the source of the problem when i looked at the front end of my r4. will the tm front end work on the well?

 

Bob: here's a pic of the batt with a de USP batt for comparison. measured with a ruler, the dimensions are:

 

post-19317-1180007340_thumb.jpg

 

length = 9cm

width = 3cm (looks not quite 3 in the pic cos of the camera angle ;))

depth = 1.4cm

 

hope this helps,

 

zT :assassin:

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I don't know if the TM front end would work on the Well but it certainly does the other way around. If i was to guess i would put money on it working. Unfortunately i'm out of town for the next few days so won't be able to test it for you :(

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Thanks for the info guys.

Ok ive taken a photo now.

The battery on the right is the WELL one and the battery on the left is Tokyo Marui. As you can see they are slightly different in length but exactly the same in all other aspects.

Next to them is the front battery closer thingy with the two plastic prongs that hold the battery in tight.

I think removing a few mm of these prongs will enable the TM battery to work fine and then Ill have to glue a packer to the bottom of the WELL battery.

 

The TM one measures 94.70mm from end to end

The WELL one measures 91.51mm from end to end

So the diff is only 3.19mm but its enough that the battery compartment doesnt close.

 

This post may read a bit odd as its a partially edited one I put up on Airsoft Retreat but wanted to post here as well in order to add to the info.

 

Cheers Alex ( BobSpoons )

MP7.jpg

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tome i'd guess the TM would fit on the R4 too.

 

alex shall we think this through together?

 

if the TM batt is 3.19mm longer then it's that extra length that keeps the prongs from locking, right? the prongs are not long enough instead of being too long? (unless, of course, the issue is that the prongs butt against the top and bottom edges of the butt?

 

haven't really examined the way that thingy works, thus the questions. ;)

 

whichever way it works out, please do keep us posted.

 

cheers,

 

zT :assassin:

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Hi Zentaurus.

 

Nopers its not the prongs that lock, they just butt up against the battery to keep it tight. The locking bits are inside the assembly body of the front-end and lock into the main body of the gun. Hence, the fact that the prongs are too long means that the locking bits dont reach the main gun and there is a gap between front-end and main body.

Shortening the prongs by 3mm would mean the front end then locks on perfect-ish.

 

Basically, all the prongs are is spacers against the back of the battery to keep it tight. As the WELL battery is shorter, the spacers need to be longer to enable a tight fit otherwise there would be a gap and as Tome says, the well battery rattles in a TM gun.

 

Easiest way for you to see it is if you have a look at yours and pack the back of the battery with some cardboard and then try and put the front end on and see how it behaves.

 

Cheers

 

Alex

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I've had a go at putting the TM front end on the Well. It fits and seems to lock but if you pull on it it just come straight off :P So modding the Well front end it is then hehe

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tome, does the Mp7 have shims? If so, did you re-do your shim job before installing the gears? I guess I'll stick with the spring/spring guide anyway since I don't plan on upgrading the RoF and it did seem like their was something 'different' about the Well barrel compared to other AEG barrels when I took it out and looked at it.

 

And then, when you talk about the hop up not working well, was this before or after you installed the barrel? Because on my cousin's (well, it might as well be mine after all the work and testing I did on it) the hop up made a significant difference to the bb trajectory. Distance increased a little, but the bbs went in a lot flater path.

 

I too had to correct bent contacts in this Mp7, I think this occurs from putting the battery in wrong and the fact that the metal Well uses for cantacts are really flimsy.

 

Then, something my cousin had to do to get his to fire correctly was adjust his flash hider and put some swabs through the barrel to clean it. We got some really nice gunk out of there. The flash hider had a 'bent' appearance to it, so I took it off, and screwed it back on so that it looked 'straight'. This seemed to correct his extremely poor accuracy.

 

The externals I must say are very well done. The plastic and metal are a little bit lower quality than TM, but they are not far off. The Well Mp7 was so accurate (design-wise) to the TM that Well users should have no problem following TM Mp7 take-down guides on this website.

 

The folding vertical grip is a little annoying to some people on the Well as it does not nessecarily 'lock' into position like the Marui. It does fold out, and stays put when extended, it just is a tad bit annoying when you're not familiar with it and your folding grip folds back up while you're shooting (only had that happen once).

 

The stock is like the Marui; only two positions. I'm going to see if I can't customize the stock with an indentation so it locks when the stock is half-way extended.

 

P.S. Anyone notice their Well battery is a 'Ni-MH'? I thought that was odd considering TM uses Ni-cds in theirs.

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P.S. Anyone notice their Well battery is a 'Ni-MH'?  I thought that was odd considering TM uses Ni-cds in theirs.

 

That's a really good point! I hadn't noticed that one was MH and the other was Cd.

 

The gearbox does have some shims in it but not nearly enough to stop the gears moving along their axis.

 

The hop does improve the flatness trajectory on mine too, but if you compare it to a "proper" hop, it's somewhat lacking considering a proper hop can make your bb go skyward!

 

Bizarrely on my Well the TM stock will not work correctly in it :huh:

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The stock is like the Marui; only two positions.  I'm going to see if I can't customize the stock with an indentation so it locks when the stock is half-way extended.

should be easy, moru san, just notches on the struts.

 

oh, that has to be one of the worst puns ever :mellow:

;)

 

zT :assassin:

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