fuze Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 About measuring the groups, isn't more common to measure from the bullethole center? Link to post Share on other sites
TheBauer Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 you aim at the same place every time, you measure your groupings, even if they are not near the place you center your cross hairs. this is because you scope might not be zero correctly. but the grouping will still remian true. Next Skirmish weekend (sunday end of month) ill do a grouping test at 30m roughly with a couple of different makes (SGM .29 and Digicon non coated .36) Both with hop set correctly for the respective bb. to give an example of the groups i was getting. a MARS Milk Drink bottle isnt very big, my shots were hitting it, or going to the side and hitting the mud by and inch at most. ill do a proper record with paper next time though. Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 I actually looked it up a while back and some grouping competitions, measure from the bullet centres and some measure from the edges of the holes and take away the calibre you are firing (ie 6mm for most of us). I suggest we just look at the horizontal and vertical size of the groups from marks in the paper as it is often difficult to tell where the "centre" of the holes are from BB's. They did not cut the paper too well due to being spherical. Having vertical and horizontal measurements, gives you 2 bits of data to look at. Rather than just how far apart the 2 furthest shots land, giving only one measurement. Perhaps we should standardise what we are doing, for all future tests. i still have the target to remeasure if necessary. I agree that the test needs to be prone and braced, but in my limited backyard, with split levels; I cannot do that and hit the target. I have to fire from kneeling and rest on a bench. I think that due to the lower accuracy of Airsoft guns compared to air rifles, we need to come up with our own method of grouping at 30m. Lets face it you could well get a "flier" with a single shot bolty that would not hit the target. Perhaps the targets should be mansized and see how many hits can be recorded from ten shots at various ranges? magictomcat : click on the review database in the top right of the screen. Good Hunting Link to post Share on other sites
fuze Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 I actually looked it up a while back and some grouping competitions, measure from the bullet centres and some measure from the edges of the holes and take away the calibre you are firing (ie 6mm for most of us). Ok Perhaps we should standardise what we are doing, for all future tests. That would probably be a god idea. Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 I cant print man sized target,thats for sure! hopup on or off for the test? ps:how can i ADD a reivew,not read one? Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Sorry, I didn't explain myself enough. I was getting at using a man, as the target. I guess to compare BB's you need paper and do not shoot over 30m. After that judgement, rifle and wind come into the picture more. I am too used to long ranged shooting with larger targets, in an effort to make the shooting as helpful to me as possible. I'm not used to shooting paper targets up close, as you may tell. I guess my own style of target shooting is more like FIELD ARCHERY, which involves shooting at targets through cover and in tough situations. This is the best practice firing you can do, to aid your chances of getting that one shot hit at longer ranges. Even if your HOP is turned fully off, the pellet must still sit behind the nub and therefore contact it upon firing. If not then the pellet would just fall out of the barrel once you cocked the rifle and pointed the muzzle down. To me, if the pellets gave great groups at 30m with no HOP on that doesn't make them the best pellets for longed shooting with HOP UP on. I think this test will show more than just pellet performance and will show a combination of rifle and skill too. magictomcat: you press "upload products" once on the review database page (at the top right hand side), if the product you want to review is not already there. Also if you are happy with your custom HOP, then do not change it. Can you take a picture of it and put it in the TANAKA thread when you next have it stripped (I don't expect you to dismantle it just for that). Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 but some BB migh be good with some type of hop up and not others,they are many different hop what power should we use? 450?550fps?650fps? Link to post Share on other sites
sirrith Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Id think as many tests as possible would be good, since it would then be possible for people with different rifles/power to decide which bb they might want to go with Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 wich one would be the best? http://www.mytargets.com/index.html 1BASIC GRID TARGET 2GRID TARGET WITH 1" CIRCLES 3BULLSEYE TARGET WITH 1" LINE SPACING (no black circle) 4BULLSEYE WITH 2 INCH RED CENTER AND 1" LINE SPACING I like 1and4 Link to post Share on other sites
sirrith Posted April 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Id say the targets themselves dont matter, as its the grouping that counts, so as long as you measure the groupings, its fine I personally prefer to have the smallest point of aim possible to minimize human error in aiming at the target, hence the small red dot on my sheets. Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 I agree and that is why I drew a small cross on the targets to aim at. Its the measurements that are important but I think he is suggesting it will be easier to compare targets when they are all on the same sheets. Good Hunting Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 I've put a few BBs through a variety of guns while testing various things and something occured to me which I thought I'd mention... If you had a sufficiently padded BB trap, it'd be interesting to shoot BBs through it one at a time and seperate out any "flyers" and then, afterwards, reshoot all the flyers and see if they're still inaccurate the 2nd time. That would prove if the BB was dodgy or if it was a hiccup with the mechanism of the gun. I mean, to take this to its logical conclusion, if you take a single BB and shoot it over and over it should give much better groupings than a bunch of BBs. What we could do with, as well, is a set of super-accurate digital scales to weigh BBs, to see if that's where the influence lies. Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 I would never reshoot BB's in a serious airsoft gun. Apparrantly the pressure of being shot has effects on the BB and I would not want to see one explode in my rifle. Interesting idea though. I agree about the scales being something that could prove much about the quality of different pellets. As I say, I think tests at long range show off the rifle/user more than just the pellets. Good hunting Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 so no more what am bestest bb threads? Link to post Share on other sites
sirrith Posted April 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 I think you'll still get those in the general/newbie forums, since these are for snipers/upgraded guns, and noobs dont tend to want to pay so much for bbs and since most ppl who ask that done search, haha Ok, well I I re-did the tests, with hop ON this time. The rifle setup is exactly the same as in the first test. The first set of results will be reposted for easier comparison without having to switch between pages (sorry 56k-ers ) These results are from the FIRST test with hop turned OFF Marui .3g Vertical grouping: 33.5mm horizontal grouping: 25.0mm Marushin .3g Vertical grouping: 35.0mm Horizontal grouping: 35.5mm STRAIGHT .36g washed Vertical grouping: 35.0mm Horizontal grouping: 35.0mm These results are from the SECOND test with hop turned ON The hop was turned on at 7 clicks for ALL the tests. Marui .3g Vertical grouping: 24.5mm Horizontal grouping: 22.5mm Marushin .3g Vertical grouping: 41mm Horizontal grouping: 32mm Straight .36g washed Vertical grouping: 24.5mm Horizontal grouping: 31.5mm Surprisingly, the hop reduced the groupings by quite a bit! Very nice surprise indeed, haha. No fliers in the marui bbs, amazing grouping. Marushin's performance was horrific, even the main body was pretty scattered as you can see, very disappointing. Straight gave quite interesting results, same vertical grouping as marui, but due to 2 fliers, almost as bad as marushin in the horizontal grouping. However, if you look at the main body, you get a 20x22mm grouping, which is better than marui! Then again, with 2 fliers in 10 bbs, where marui had none, my conclusion is that marui is the overall winner. In case you forgot, this is my rifle setup: ALL laylax internals, with upgraded sears instead of zero trigger. laylax 430mm 6.03 tightbore firefly SOFT v-hop bucking Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 I think we really should use the same target,so wich one? soon I might be able to test 0.33 SIIS Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 0.33g will be interesting, as i have wanted to get some for a while now but are always out of stock. Abit like TM 0.30G I guess target 3, would work. BULLSEYE TARGET WITH 1" LINE SPACING Good Shooting Link to post Share on other sites
sirrith Posted April 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 SIIS .33 arent that great, I used to have some, but sold them. Link to post Share on other sites
fal Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 SIIS .28 is far better than .33. I had both bags and .28 was better all the time. Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 ok so I wont but the 0.33 I'll test target 0.35 (find them en begadi.com) I have technical data here: http://www.begadishop.de/1st-target/1sttarget-deviation.doc they seem great,and begadi is a very good shop Link to post Share on other sites
sirrith Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 so unfair europe and US have so many more bbs than HK haha Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 well,you pay half the price of the replica!!! Link to post Share on other sites
sirrith Posted April 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 good point I think we might need to pester an admin or a mod to move all the pics and measurements to the first post/top of the topic, haha, its getting a bit messy. Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 this weekend i'll try doing mesure of straight white .36 and graphite 0.43 at 30m and guys,everyone use meter system ok?it's the internationnal system (and it's the one i use ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Just thought I would put all my results up in this format aswell, for easy visual comparison. All out of the same TANAKA m40a1 with the same amount of HOP. PELLET ............ Vertical ........ Horizontal 0.28g G+P .......... 3.1 ................ 2.8 0.29g SGM ........... 3.0 ................ 3.5 0.30g EliteAirsoft ... 4.0................ 3.1 0.30g SIIS ............ 4.0 ............... 3.1 0.30g MARUZEN ..... 2.1 ............... 3.7 0.30g HFC ............. 4.0 ............... 3.0 0.36g Straight ........ 3.1 .............. 3.0 User error could well be a factor. I hope to do it again but from prone with bipod. I hope to do some more longer ranged testing soon. I know someone with STRAIGHT 0.43g and will add them to the tests. Good Hunting Link to post Share on other sites
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