Jump to content

Quandary


Pants of Death

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 110
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Why do Americans think it's somehow an impressive statistic that firearms deaths arent in the top 10 causes? Of course they *fruitcage* aren't! Of course more people are going to die from smoking/drinking/eating related causes, that's an absolute given.

 

Just because it isn't in the top ten, doesn't mean it's not abnormally high for a 'civilised' society.

Link to post
Share on other sites
But what if he's very skilled with his larger gun? Guns should never have to be the solution (a bit odd to hear on an airsoft board lol).

 

Why do Americans think it's somehow an impressive statistic that firearms deaths arent in the top 10 causes? Of course they *fruitcage* aren't! Of course more people are going to die from smoking/drinking/eating related causes, that's an absolute given.

 

Just because it isn't in the top ten, doesn't mean it's not abnormally high for a 'civilised' society.

 

Sadly, we don't live in a perfect world, and a means of protection is sometimes (oftentimes, even) necessary. You’re completely ignoring the basic fact that there’s hardly ever a Mexican stand off. There’s no “Oh, you only have a .22, so my .357 wins because it’ll do more damage to your health points”. I don’t know what kind of ###### you people read/watch, but it’s just nonsense. The mere fact that you are armed is enough to deter 95% of potential criminals, simply because you’re NOT an easy target. Kind of like how the wolves go after the sick, weak, old, and young prey. Why? Because they are incapable or very unlikely to defend themselves.

 

Define how it is abnormal? What is a normal rate of death? How is it more ‘civilised’ to be unable to defend yourself, to protect your property, yourself, or your loved ones? A century ago it was thought to be improper for a gentleman to be unarmed. It was considered a disgrace NOT to protect your life, which was considered a gift from God, and by choosing not to defend yourself you are disrespecting that gift and God Himself.

 

Whether or not you believe in God, there is some truth there. It is your own responsibility to protect yourself, not rely on others, such as the police. They’re more or less there to sort things out in the end, and carrying protection is what makes you either a chalk line or a witness.

 

Also, saying a ‘civilised’ society is one that is unarmed would mean Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, the Turkish ‘cleansing’ of Armenia is all ‘civilised’.

Yeah, sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, saying a ‘civilised’ society is one that is unarmed would mean Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, the Turkish ‘cleansing’ of Armenia is all ‘civilised’.

Yeah, sure.

 

Whoa! Careful with the balanced examples there! People are gonna think that you're against guns or something!

 

Sure you're right about the criminals going after the weaker targets, and even my long hours on WoW wouldn't lead me to believe combat goes that way :blink: But you should never have to take the law into your own hands. That's only a step away from becoming a vigilante.

 

Any system where the citizens feel a need to protect themselves is a flawed system. A government should make its citizens feel protected, not just say, "ahhh just give 'em a gun. They'll be okay".

 

A century ago it was thought to be improper for a gentleman to be unarmed.

 

Read a century ago there my friend. That was a 100 years ago, times have changed.

 

And as for the "God given right to defend yourself" whatever happened to "turning the other cheek"? And "doing unto thy neighbour"? Sometimes it seems religion is just used for bad excuses :huh:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Who says they're gonna shoot to kill? I'd rather have a hole in leg from a pistol round than have a leg blown off by a shotgun round.

I'd rather not have any holes in me, be it from a shotgun, handgun, knife, or a bamboo skewer.

 

Any system where the citizens feel a need to protect themselves is a flawed system. A government should make its citizens feel protected, not just say, "ahhh just give 'em a gun. They'll be okay".

But then how can you make people do as they're told, without enslaving them? A government can never make its people completely protected without controlling their minds.

 

And as for the "God given right to defend yourself" whatever happened to "turning the other cheek"? And "doing unto thy neighbour"? Sometimes it seems religion is just used for bad excuses :huh:

 

How can you turn the other cheek when some one is trying to rob/kill/rape you? Just keep thinking "This guy probably needs the money and had a rough childhood. He'll probably make my death quick anyhow."?

 

But you should never have to take the law into your own hands. That's only a step away from becoming a vigilante.

Vigilantism and self defense are two separate things. If some one is no longer a threat however he once was, and you try to harm him, that would be illegal. Harming someone so that he/she doesn't harm you right then and there is different. People that take the law into there own hands are punished for it.

 

TBH, I don't necessarily agree 100% with using guns for self defense over other methods, but self defense and self preservation is a right for all living things.

Link to post
Share on other sites
But what if he's very skilled with his larger gun? Guns should never have to be the solution (a bit odd to hear on an airsoft board lol).

 

Better him than me.

 

And as for the "God given right to defend yourself" whatever happened to "turning the other cheek"? And "doing unto thy neighbour"? Sometimes it seems religion is just used for bad excuses  :huh:

 

The right to defend yourself is a natural right. It's earned by existing. The existence of God is irrelevant to such rights.

 

Oh, and Mohammad defended himself. He hunted down and slew those who denied his followers, his allies, and himself a peaceful existence until they posed no more threat to his followers/allies/self and then pardoned them. Similarly, one uses a firearm to defend oneself from a lethal threat and only until such time as the threat passes, never beyond.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Whoa! Careful with the balanced examples there! People are gonna think that you're against guns or something!

Ever notice how those totalitarian societies always start with conficsating personal firearms? Hm?

 

Sure you're right about the criminals going after the weaker targets, and even my long hours on WoW wouldn't lead me to believe combat goes that way  :blink: But you should never have to take the law into your own hands. That's only a step away from becoming a vigilante.

 

Any system where the citizens feel a need to protect themselves is a flawed system. A government should make its citizens feel protected, not just say, "ahhh just give 'em a gun. They'll be okay".

I don't know about you, but I don't want to be babied by the government. It's called a nanny state for a reason. Like I said, we don't live in a perfect world, there's always somebody willing to do you harm for your property, body, or just for the hell of it. The police arn't your personal bodyguards, and unless you're wealthy, you don't have any. Thus the personal protection.

If I saw someone raping a girl, should I not do anything? After all, according to you, I "should never have to take the law into my own hands". The same can be applied to any crime. The FBI reports that ~2 million crimes are stopped each year by law-abiding citizens with firearms. 2 million.

I can live with that.

 

Read a century ago there my friend. That was a 100 years ago, times have changed.

Not as much as you'd think. That's a blink in the big picture.

 

And as for the "God given right to defend yourself" whatever happened to "turning the other cheek"? And "doing unto thy neighbour"? Sometimes it seems religion is just used for bad excuses  :huh:

I didn't really mean to drag religion into this, as I don't claim to be a theologian, but you could replace God with natural. As in it is our natural right to free speech, freedom of worship, et al. Same as it is our natural right to defend ourselves. Its instinct.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Ever notice how those totalitarian societies always start with conficsating personal firearms? Hm?

 

I constantly hear Americans using this argument, even though a German member of this board has time and again repeated it is a fallacy, Economics drove totalitarianism, not the lack of civilian firearms.

 

I also see you missed the entire meaning behind my post. You can't say that you don't need protection, only to go ahead and police the world under the guise of protector. Rome used that tactic quite proficiently, and as such conquered the far more civilised Pagan peoples. They may not have been as advanced, but they were certainly more civilised when it came to power structures, trade, community care, etc..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ooooh lots of opposing posts :D I'll try to reply to as many as I can...

 

Oh, and Mohammad defended himself. He hunted down and slew those who denied his followers, his allies, and himself a peaceful existence until they posed no more threat to his followers/allies/self and then pardoned them. Similarly, one uses a firearm to defend oneself from a lethal threat and only until such time as the threat passes, never beyond.

 

I assume this is a reply to my comment on religion. As I said, religion is used for bad excuses, you're only supporting my arguement here.

 

Not as much as you'd think. That's a blink in the big picture.

 

Granted, but its billions of generations from the Mayfly's perspective.

 

Sorry for that, but I don't see how bringing the "bigger picture" here is relevant. We're talking about human perspective, and 1907 was quite a long time ago for many people.

 

I didn't really mean to drag religion into this, as I don't claim to be a theologian, but you could replace God with natural. As in it is our natural right to free speech, freedom of worship, et al. Same as it is our natural right to defend ourselves. Its instinct.

 

Very true. But it is also humanity's natural state to live in a tree, and eat it's food whilst its raw and still warm. Humanity is always going against it's roots.

 

If I saw someone raping a girl, should I not do anything? After all, according to you, I "should never have to take the law into my own hands".

 

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't think of a reply to this because it is the truth. I'm going to have to concede that point. But d'you need a gun to stop someone from doing that?

 

Better him than me.

 

Well said, but it really had nothing to do with the quote you placed above it :blink:

 

How can you turn the other cheek when some one is trying to rob/kill/rape you? Just keep thinking "This guy probably needs the money and had a rough childhood. He'll probably make my death quick anyhow."?

 

I don't support this solution, nor have I ever. I was simply refering to the "God given right" towards defending yourself as being flawed.

 

 

TBH, I don't necessarily agree 100% with using guns for self defense over other methods, but self defense and self preservation is a right for all living things.

 

I agree 100%. I'm simply against guns for the express purpose of self-defense.

 

In conclusion, we're always gonna argue this point. The British are gonna argue against it, 'cos we don't have it. And the Americans are gonna argue for it, 'cos they do.

 

P.S. Quite possibly the longest post I've ever made here :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.