trfo2o Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) old but still cool. EDIT: I believe this is the first model of the M4. Notice the M4 barrel? the first of them came with the older A1 recievers. If i'm wrong it could be a old M727 carbine. Edited May 22, 2007 by trfo2o Link to post Share on other sites
HeuteGegangen Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) I don't get the MAP craze at all. As I see it, it's a way of carrying quite a bit of kit without having to wear a pack over your rig, yeah, great. But you can't get to it unless you completely doff your rig (or unless you have someone else rummage around in there for you). That seems clumsy, inconvenient and, in a real situation, potentially dangerous. I just can't see the usefulness, personally, at least not in the HUGE numbers that the latest craze surrounding them seems to be producing. I mean, I'll be the first person to admit that they look cool, but they only seem useful to me in very limited circumstances. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yar, MAPs are useful if you're hardcore enough to unleash their full potential. I chug mountain dew before ever game and use my map to hold back up dry clothes for low profile post warfare operations. Edited May 22, 2007 by HeuteGegangen Link to post Share on other sites
tinkle60 Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Well they must have their uses since they're issued as part of MLCS, MBSS, SFLCS and FSBE II. It's also not a new concept. ABA, Eagle, LBT were all producing rigs with fastex buckles on the back for day packs decades before molle came along. Like you said, it's a way of carrying kit that needs someone else to access it for you. Therefore, why would anyone put anything from their fighting load into it? Obviously, it would only contain items which you would need when not in a dangerous situation. Things like: radios, explosive moe gear, extra medical supplies, clothing, laptops, food, water... you get the idea, not exactly stuff you will get out under fire without your buddies around. Link to post Share on other sites
NoRemorse Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 MAPS were designed for MOUT operations. The idea was that you had someone behind you to grab what ever gear you needed out of it. you carry the gear for the guy behind you and the guy in from carriers the gear for you, whether it be demo, 1st aid, ammo etc.. MAP's spawned things like this from DBT. Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) Now that I can see a use for. Same goes for the Paraclete RAV/RMV Assaulter's Back Panel. The reason is, they're divided up and serve a specific purpose - flashbangs in one pouch, mags in another, breaching tools elsewhere, etc etc. The MAP, on the other hand, just seems unfocussed. It's not obvious what's in each pouch - nothing is discretely marked. Yeah, you can arguably get more in a MAP, but if you need to carry a lot of stuff, why not just run a small 3-day pack? EDIT: Reading my post through, it sounds really negative. I'm not slating the MAP design as rubbish, but I just can't figure out why they're so popular. They look to serve a VERY specific purpose, and it's a purpose that I can't see many people having the need for. Edited May 22, 2007 by HaVoC Link to post Share on other sites
NoRemorse Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Now that I can see a use for. Same goes for the Paraclete RAV/RMV Assaulter's Back Panel. The reason is, they're divided up and serve a specific purpose - flashbangs in one pouch, mags in another, breaching tools elsewhere, etc etc. The MAP, on the other hand, just seems unfocussed. It's not obvious what's in each pouch - nothing is discretely marked. Yeah, you can arguably get more in a MAP, but if you need to carry a lot of stuff, why not just run a small 3-day pack? EDIT: Reading my post through, it sounds really negative. I'm not slating the MAP design as rubbish, but I just can't figure out why they're so popular. They look to serve a VERY specific purpose, and it's a purpose that I can't see many people having the need for. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm saying that there has been an evolution from the MAP (a concept that has been around for a while) to the assault panels. Yeah an assault pack is nice because you can easily remove it in the field, but you also have an extra set of straps running down your shoulder. A MAP is less cumbersome but in the same hand the MAP is less accessible for the person wearing it. Thus the reliance on teammates, or should I say the purpose of wearing a MAP is for your teammates. It is totally debatable, some people like them and some don't. The military uses them for a reason that obviously escapes us. Link to post Share on other sites
tinkle60 Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 but if you need to carry a lot of stuff, why not just run a small 3-day pack? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It will never make sense to you if you think of it as a smaller version of a full assault pack. The 3-day, was originally designed for, well, 3-day missions. You can squeeze in your sleeping bag, food and other living equipment. However, you can just about squeeze a roll mat into the MAP. It will probably make more sense if you realise that it is an evolution of the hydration pouch, just much more useful and flexible. They are usually used for more mission specific equipment. Whether or not you can see it is a moot point. There are a lot of people in the real world using it so it follows that they have a need for it. If you are talking about airsofters; when I last used a MAP (not just for looks) it carried water (duh!), ammo, extra pyro and food for 24 hours. If I had used my RAID, the stuff would be bouncing around everywhere and I would have been carrying a lot of unnecessary weight in nylon. Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I've always seen them as an evolution of the hydro pack, funnily enough. I mentioned the use of a SMALL 3-day pack, more in line with the new TT 1-day pack or something even smaller (Camelbak HAWG, for example). Yeah, you have an extra set of straps, but to me something like the HAWG would be infinitely more useful than a MAP. Going back to what I was saying, I'm not saying the MAP is a bad design - far from it. What I'm trying to figure out is why so many people use them. I'd have thought they were far too niche an item for the widespread use they seem to have gained. Link to post Share on other sites
tinkle60 Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Sorry, I was confused. A small 3-day pack is not a 3-day pack, it's a smaller pack. As evidenced by TT's 1-day pack. I was kinda interested in it, but it turns out it's not much smaller than the 3-day. Comparison pics: Link to post Share on other sites
Souske Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 "ODA styled" carbine. Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Not seen those specific pics before tinkle, thanks. It looks BIGGER than the 3-day in the second pic! I'm still interested in one as a carry-on bag for flights, though. It has the ID window, a big carry handle, and the size is perfect. That's the market for it, right there. Anyway, yeah, I should have phrased it better. Packs like the TT 1-day and the HAWG are a relatively new thing and don't seem to have a name yet. The HAWG is a HAWG and doesn't seem to be categorisable. Ah well, you get what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites
mremerica Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 [imghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/tinkle60/Picture018.jpg/img] Name of the backpack like pouch on the guy in the ACUs with the tan lid? Thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats quite amusing, of all the pics you could have asked about that you choose that one! Tinkle you do get around Link to post Share on other sites
tinkle60 Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Dunno about using it as carry on. Generally in the UK carry size limits are 55x40x20 cm maybe a bit bigger. Never measured it but I've been refused my RAID pack as a carry on. mremerica, imagine my surprise when pictures of me and some mates turn up on some french website as 'real operators' Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 I've been told before that it's ok. I'll do a little more looking into it, but I'm sure the pack I used last time was bigger than that... Link to post Share on other sites
Fellowz Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 i'm torn between webbing and a Plate carrier of some sort for my SF look. not to mention the camo. its kinda a blend of Seals and Delta (they both look so cool) kit list: Pro tech helmet Baraclava BDU/Flightsuit ??? Plate Carrier/Webbing+Armour Drop leg dump pouch Safariland 6004 Holster S.W.A.T tan boots Nomex Flight gloves Goggles/Shooting glasses Scrim net scarf/Shmegh thingy ????? Weapon is will be a TM 14 any help would be appreciated Link to post Share on other sites
scooberoo Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 I'd also like to add about the modular assault packs (MAP) is that you can put satellite comms, PRC 148 MBITR, camelkback, and extra flotation devices in it. They are just the right size. For entry tools, it would be harder to access them if they were inside the MAP. Link to post Share on other sites
The Dirt Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Paraclete does seem to be the order of the day. RAVs and Plate carriers (without cummerbund) are the most commonly seen in smoke green, but other colours are used as well. Also seen in use are the BHI DOAV and this 1911s in 6004s Clothing wise, what suits the environment. Confirmed sightings of DCU, BDU, ACU and multicam. M4 with RAS MRE or HK 416. I'll pm you with a list my buddy wrote. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tinkle, would you mind pm me that list too, I've pretty much picked out the stuff above with various MICH's added, but would like some more suggestions on a CAG-outfit. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites
mremerica Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 mremerica, imagine my surprise when pictures of me and some mates turn up on some french website as 'real operators' <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What pic was that mate? Has to be one of the highest compliments! Link to post Share on other sites
tinkle60 Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 I think it was one of the 747 assault pics. The Dirt - pm inbound Link to post Share on other sites
Catch22 Posted May 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Link to post Share on other sites
HeuteGegangen Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Those guys have some really interesting pouch setups! They must really love their paraclete stuff too. Link to post Share on other sites
tinkle60 Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Left over from before the age of MLCS? Link to post Share on other sites
Belladonna Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Just thought id post this, my attempt at a late 90s army SF loadout, tell me what you think Link to post Share on other sites
AirForceOne Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 one of the best looking loadout i've seen so far... care to post the specs? thanks Link to post Share on other sites
phoenix360mute Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 i think i want to know what you blacked out and where the *fruitcage* your spots went but thats just me Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts