EXPLODING BBS?!

[rwham]

Oh, yeah forgot that in the UK you guys can't use firecrackers. The poppers aren't in the least bit dangerous, and do not have a flame like that at all. I pop them in my hands and feel nothing.

[Endospore]

i have emailed them to let them know i believe that these are illegal, but i doubt they will stop selling them. designing making and selling them IS probably legal, the only people breaking the law will be the people putting them in the guns and shooting them, the most we can hope for from Kapowwe is a legal disclaimer 

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In the US it is not illegal. We can use fireworks and stuff like that. Dry ice bombs, coke and mentos, whatever. Only thing would be engineering your own, but even those I think are legal if you use them "properly".

 

Now, it changes for specific cities, but so do airsoft guns.

[Yeager]

Ok, to all of those claiming that these things are legal in the US.

 

 

Who here is willing to walk up to an ATF agent and explain to him what these bbs do?

 

People get nailed all the time for having similar items made for .22 pellet rifles. What makes you think that the ATF won't nail you with NFA charges for having something that does basically the same thing?

[Bengali]

i have emailed the ATF regarding this. i have given a full description of what the BB's are made of, what they are intended to do and a brief description of the argument at hand. hopefully i will recieve a reply shortly clearing up the legality of these in the US.

[Yeager]

i have emailed the ATF regarding this. i have given a full description of what the BB's are made of, what they are intended to do and a brief description of the argument at hand. hopefully i will recieve a reply shortly clearing up the legality of these in the US.

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Thank you bengali.

 

I'm curious to hear what they say about it. I'd also be curious to hear what they have to say about the madbull rubber "slug" rounds for our m203s.

[Toreodor]

Bad idea?  Probably.

 

Illigal in the US? I doubt it.  One of the nice things about US law is that if it isn't specifically banned, more often than not, its legal. You can legally buy exploding targets (Tanerite) that when hit with a high power rifle bullet, exoplode with the force of a handgrenade, and they are completely unregulated ta-boot.  Last time I checked, the company that sells them conduct background checks on the prospective customer before they send the product, but that is just to cover their own arses, not dictated by law (dictated by lawyers  ).  One thing that needs to be watched out for is all the armchair lawyers in the world.  Remember, even cops think many things are illegal when they really aren't.

 

That being said, I think these things would be a blast to play around with (not by shooting them at eachother!).  There is a horrible frame of mind that is spreading, and unfortunatley, many of your brothers in the UK suffer exceedingly from it (I see it over and over here on the board):  "If it looks remotely theatening to our sport/hobby/whatever, lets ban it before it effects our interests."  The problem with that philosophy, is that each time a new ban creeps up, it gets easier and easier to capitulate, just in the name of preserving your own.  Until "Your own" happens to be the next thing on the chopping block.  By that time, you have little to no support from the rest of the community.  We saw this here in the States in the early-mid 90's with all the weapons bans.  Many hunters took the stance that since no one is planning to ban their bolt action hunting rifles, then the govt. can take away the "assault rifles" without any consequences to them.  What they didn't realise is that the lawmakers crafting those bills fully intended to take those too, just down the road a bit.....

 

I guess what I'm saying is to not be so quick to state that something is illegal until you know it is and to not be so casual about calling for the banning of something without first considering the long term consequences.  The more bans that are enacted, the easier it gets to enact more bans.

 

Sorry if this is kinda out of place, but this post was the camel that broke the straw's ba...... umm, you know what I mean. 

 

Flame on.....

 

1st

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you said it. cheers to you man.

 

as for emailing the ATF and asking about everything else. Why don't you wise up and keep things out of sight, and out of mind? Cause if my guns get taken due to this infantile "i am right" orgy, i'm gonna make sure you two get the credit. grow up.

[rolling-thunder]

i have emailed the ATF regarding this. i have given a full description of what the BB's are made of, what they are intended to do and a brief description of the argument at hand. hopefully i will recieve a reply shortly clearing up the legality of these in the US.

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Bengali,how come you have mailed a US law enforcement agency about the legality of these BBs if you are a UK citizen ?Surely that's best done by a US citizen?

These BBs may be one of those objects which are legal to own in this country or the US but only break the law if propelled out of a gun?

US citizens have enough gun laws to worry about without a Brit stiring up the hornets nest & possibly closing down a shop that thought it was bringing something unusual to their customers.

[Misfit]

basically if it ain't thrown by hand it's illegal.

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Even though throwing pyrotechnics by hand is illegal also. You're supposed to place them on the ground and retreat 5-10 metres.

[Sao]

OoO these are a blast from the past (excuse the awfull pun)

I had some of these back in the early 90's when they came round first time.

Good fun in more innocent times.

 

They do take chunks out of plaster walls much to my mates parents chagrin

[Yeager]

as for emailing the ATF and asking about everything else. Why don't you wise up and keep things out of sight, and out of mind?

Why don't you wise up?

 

Its a hell of a lot smarter to ask the powers at be and get a definite answer to the legality of an item than to "sweep it under the table" and get caught later on down the road.

 

 

Cause if my guns get taken due to this infantile "i am right" orgy, i'm gonna make sure you two get the credit. grow up.

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If your guns get taken the only thing you'll do is cry on an internet forum about how two guys on another forum got your sport banned.

 

 

Grow up.

 

 

Now then, I looked up the definition of a DD. Its been a while since I've studied American firearm law, so bear with me...

 

The definition of a "destructive device" is found in Title 26, United States Code, in section 5845(f). The definition reads as follows:

 

(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, (A) bomb, ( grenade, © rocket having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces, (D) missile having an explosive charge of more than 1/4 ounce, (E) mine or (F) similar device.

(2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and

(3) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

The term destructive device shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned or given by the Secretary of the Army, pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of Title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.[1]

 

Now, if I'm reading that correctly these bbs are not covered by the NFA. However, It still doesn't mean that they are not covered by another federal law. So lets wait for the ATF's reply before we make anymore quick judgements.

 

 

Disclaimer: All legal advice given is worth what you paid for it. Poster does not claim or profess to be a lawyer.

[kerberos_]

Exploding BBs - Are these the ones you get from 6mil in a large sack and are kinda blue?

[MagicalNinjaBuddy]

1st Ranger, Tanerite is regulated. Yes. Do you really think that someone is going to give a rat's *albatross* about bbs? No, and they'll ignore them until you hear "Arson started by person with exploding airsoft gun."

 

1st Ranger, do you HONESTLY expect people to not use these against civillians? I mean, come on. The average person will probably buy a cheap springer, say "HEY COL! LOK AT DEM EXPLODIN BBES!!!!" buy them, and start shooting around innocents.

 

 

you said it. cheers to you man.

 

as for emailing the ATF and asking about everything else. Why don't you wise up and keep things out of sight, and out of mind? Cause if my guns get taken due to this infantile "i am right" orgy, i'm gonna make sure you two get the credit. grow up.

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You're right! Lets hide stuff, cause I mean, really, if they don't see it, it's not illegal! Honestly, how stupid are you? They'll find out, one way or another. And yes. Blame other people because you were such a dumbass to use something that was questionably legal. So, do us all a favor. Stop fellating old men and take one of your colorful little IPSPICHICOA{AFAF toy guns, and shove them up your *albatross* and leave.

[TheDio]

WE ARE NOT SELLING THESE, and never have sold them!! They are showing up on the market so we wanted to show everyone. They are cool for movie making, which all we want to do with them. We will continue to provide more information about them including additional videos and testing details. No, we do not have a "large supply" on hand or even ordered. We only have a few samples and wanted to show the community.

 

OK then?

[Bengali]

Yes im from the UK, no your American Laws dont effect me, HOWEVER rolling-thunder, since you werent getting up off your butt and finding out i thought id take it upon myself to ask them. since we have established they are illegal here, if we have a definite answer to the legality of these things over with you guys then we can all stop arguing about "its legal if you do this, but not if you do that" stuff.

 

Oh and TheDio, i assume from your posts you are from Kappowe? and i respect that your not selling them, but you ARE advertising them, so if people see them and think COOL they will look around to get them elsewhere.

[TheDio]

Yes im from the UK, no your American Laws dont effect me, HOWEVER rolling-thunder, since you werent getting up off your butt and finding out i thought id take it upon myself to ask them. since we have established they are illegal here, if we have a definite answer to the legality of these things over with you guys then we can all stop arguing about "its legal if you do this, but not if you do that" stuff.

 

Oh and TheDio, i assume from your posts you are from Kappowe? and i respect that your not selling them, but you ARE advertising them, so if people see them and think COOL they will look around to get them elsewhere.

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No.

 

I'm quoting the site, It's been like that since last night and it sure doesent seem like you guys noticed

[Bengali]

nope, but even so, they ARE still advertising illegal (probably) products which st00pid kids probably wouldn't have known existed, and will obviously want to buy when they see the video

[rolling-thunder]

Yes im from the UK, no your American Laws dont effect me, HOWEVER rolling-thunder, since you werent getting up off your butt and finding out i thought id take it upon myself to ask them. since we have established they are illegal here, if we have a definite answer to the legality of these things over with you guys then we can all stop arguing about "its legal if you do this, but not if you do that" stuff.

 

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It might be worth pointing out i am a citizen of the UK & not the US & i was thinking it might be better if a US citizen asked the relevant authorities,unofficially i wouldn't know where to begin?Officially,do you really want that sort of paperwork landing on the desk of the ATF?

[Yeager]

It might be worth pointing out i am a citizen of the UK & not the US & i was thinking it might be better if a US citizen asked the relevant authorities,unofficially i wouldn't know where to begin?Officially,do you really want that sort of paperwork landing on the desk of the ATF?

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Edit : Nevermind, I'm too tired to think..

 

Edit2: People ask the ATF these kinds of questions every day. I don't think we'll see anything of it.

[Bengali]

im sorry rolling-thunder, i assumed you were from US, shoulda looked. really this thread is going to go on and on and on and on about wether its legal or not. and until someone DOES ask the only people who can confirm it people will just keep on speculating. i simply saved everyone a bit of time.

[Tank]

Several years ago the company I work for was looking at possibly importing these BBs into the US.

We discovered (at the time) that they were legal (in most states) to own/use in the US.

(However, that was several years ago and with the current political climate in the US the laws could have become far more strict since then.)

 

The difficulty comes with LEGALLY importing them.

Because they are an explosive (albeit very low grade) they are heavily regulated. As it stands there are relatively few businesses in the US that are properly licensed to import such explosives into the US. Importing them into the US legally is very expensive and therefore makes the exploding BBs far too cost prohibitive for most retailers to even consider selling.

 

Besides all that...They don't work terribly well. I still have some of them, and I'd say that 1/4-1/2 of them fail to go off even when striking concrete at 300 fps.

[1st Ranger]

MagicalNinjaBuddy,

did you really need to respond to Toreodor's post that way?

 

Here's a quote from http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20030033952.html :

These Tannerite Targets are non-regulated as sold in unmixed form, and therefore are not subject to hazmat shipping or storage laws.

Here'a another one, this one from http://www.tannerite.com/she_tannerite.html :

Tannerite is not regulated by state or federal law when in unmixed form. This means there is no need for costly powder magazines and storage facilities.

 

Tannerite, when used as a target, is not regulated! What does this have to do with exploding bb's. Absolutely nothing.

 

As far as your argument that someone may use them against civilians, I feel sorry for you that you seem to have the mentality that since someone may abuse a product, we should all then have no access to that product. Its that mentality that will eventually lead to anything and everything dangerous (i.e. fun) being banned and is what I was talking about in my post. I mean, why should anyone be able to go to a sporting good's store and buy rifle/pistol ammunition? Or arrows? Or sharp pointy objects? My car got keyed last week (not really, but it makes for a funny anecdote), therefore we should ban keys since someone used their key for evil.

 

Please people, we can disagree, but lets keep it civil.

 

1st