Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

ColDaz

Infra Red visible laser

Recommended Posts

Hey,

 

I'm having a bit of trouble finding (if they really exist) a laser for a GBB that will be visible through NVGs but not visible to the MK1 eyeball.

 

So does anyone know where I might be able to pick one up? Price isn't really a concern at the moment as budget can be worked out later, depending on how much they cost.

 

Cheers,

 

Darren

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey,

 

I'm having a bit of trouble finding (if they really exist) a laser for a GBB that will be visible through NVGs but not visible to the MK1 eyeball.

 

So does anyone know where I might be able to pick one up? Price isn't really a concern at the moment as budget can be worked out later, depending on how much they cost.

 

Cheers,

 

Darren

 

Here you go.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/G-P-Night-Vision-IR-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skorn: My NVGs have a built in illuminator.

 

invisiduck: I'll let ya know. Gonna put it on a pistol and see how that works.

 

I'm after one because I can't aim very well with NVGs on for some reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you really intending to use an infrared laser in Airsoft?

 

If so, read this extract from this Wikipedia article:

 

"Infrared and ultraviolet lasers are particularly hazardous, since the body's protective "blink reflex" response only operates if the light is visible. For example, some people exposed to high power Nd:YAG laser emitting invisible 1064 nm radiation, may not feel pain or notice immediate damage to their eye sight. A pop or click noise emanating from the eyeball may be the only indication that retinal damaged has occurred i.e. the retina was heated to over 100 °C resulting in localized explosive boiling accompanied by the immediate creation of a permanent blind spot."

 

:waggle:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, in airsoft you try to avoid headshots anyway. And a laser with that power output would need several seconds, if not minutes, to reach dangerous levels. Safety is still an important concern, always keep an eye on it :P

 

On another note, this laser seems a bit big to me to fit on a pistol... maybe a Mk23 (with a rail adaptor) or some long slide gun, with a long rail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, in airsoft you try to avoid headshots anyway. And a laser with that power output would need several seconds, if not minutes, to reach dangerous levels. Safety is still an important concern, always keep an eye on it :P

 

Your comments about avoiding headshots and safety being important seem to me to clash with your implied conclusion that an infrared laser is safe to use in Airsoft.

 

I'm always interested in learning though, so please provide some technical facts or links to substantiate your conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, when you aim with a laser, you tend to aim at the center mass, not the head, hence the comment about avoiding headshots: if you don't aim the head, there is less risk of damaging an eye than else...

There is actually no indication of power, but it being a G&P laser, it has to be a class I or II. Those are of course still dangerous, but less than class III (professional and military use) hence need longer exposure to cause damages. I have no figures right here, but worked a bit with laser in my previous studies.

Moreover, you have to consider that a hand weapon is not held in the most stable way in combat, so even if the beam comes in contact with the eye, the contact would be very brief.

So my comment is: safety is always the most important thing whatever you do, but he and his mates will decide if the game is worth the risk, now that you raised the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has been said mate, class I or II will not harm eyes with a brief flash. And being G&P they make I or II as class III is illegal in most euro countries (unless you have a licence/permit).

 

There is loads of info on the internet about this, wiki is good but it's not by any means gospel, the amount of things on there that are wrong or just opinions is suprising to say the least. Try doing a bit more research ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is almost impossible to damage the eye with a class I, but class II is possible with some effort.

 

 

 

"Do you want me to talk?"

 

"No Mr. Bond, I want you to die."

 

:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As has been said mate, class I or II will not harm eyes with a brief flash. And being G&P they make I or II as class III is illegal in most euro countries (unless you have a licence/permit).

 

So where in that ebay ad does it say that laser is class I or II? Please point it out.

 

The brief flash of Class I or II lasers is not regarded as dangerous because of the blink reflex. With infrared lasers the blink reflex is not stimulated, and in the dark the pupils dilate to give maximum access to the interior of the eye. (As the discussion involves nvg darkness is a given.)

 

That ebay ad states "Nighttime Vermin Hunting"; see, vermin not humans, vermin to be harmed/killed - so what would it matter if the eyes of vermin were damaged when trying to kill them.

 

There is loads of info on the internet about this, wiki is good but it's not by any means gospel, the amount of things on there that are wrong or just opinions is suprising to say the least. Try doing a bit more research ;)

 

No, you or Load Blackgoat do some research and provide it; I have already provided the Wiki link to back up my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... I have no figures right here, but worked a bit with laser in my previous studies.

 

Ok, trot out your tech info to back up your conclusions.

 

And please provide details of the safety restrictions you had to obey while working with lasers, especially those relevant to beams invisible to the unaided human eye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So where in that ebay ad does it say that laser is class I or II? Please point it out.

 

The brief flash of Class I or II lasers is not regarded as dangerous because of the blink reflex. With infrared lasers the blink reflex is not stimulated, and in the dark the pupils dilate to give maximum access to the interior of the eye. (As the discussion involves nvg darkness is a given.)

 

That ebay ad states "Nighttime Vermin Hunting"; see, vermin not humans, vermin to be harmed/killed - so what would it matter if the eyes of vermin were damaged when trying to kill them.

No, you or Load Blackgoat  do some research and provide it; I have already provided the Wiki link to back up my opinion.

:blink: wow dude, calm the fruitcage down. who died and appointed you sheriff of lasers? And just so you know, wiki is not the word of God. its editable by the public, so i could go in there and say that infrared lasers cause you to mutate and shoot laser beams out of your eyes. ;) so if youre gonna be this defensive about your facts, maybe you should get some more creditable facts.

 

and btw, nowhere in that article does it say that if the laser points at your eye for one millisecond you instantly go blind. it says that if the laser increases the temperature of the eye to over 100 degrees CELCIUS you get a blind SPOT in your eye. if YOU did some research you will find that 100 °C is pretty fruitcaging hot, so someone would have to purposely sit there with a laser pointed in your eye to try and blind you

 

AND thirdly, if you actually read (and comprehended) what everyone posted you will understand that if someone is using a IR laser on a pistol they will mostly be pointing at the BODY not the FACE/EYES. and even if it did go over their eyes, nobody is gonna sit there and TRY to aim to shoot someone in the eye

 

<_< actually i dont even know why i wrote all this because you probably stopped reading after ' :blink: '

 

anywho back on topic, check this out: Click Me!

 

edit: actually that might be a tad too big for a pistol :rolleyes: you could still use it on a rifle if you wanted to though :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The power of that laser is 8 mW according to G&P.

 

http://www.gp-web.com/en/productspop.php?pid=837

 

-Sale

 

Thanks for that link, but my concern is it still doesn't say what Class that laser is.

(I have used their Sales Enquiry button to ask, and will post any info I get, whether it supports my opinions or not.)

 

My understanding of the effects of lasers comes from the Wiki article I linked and from a few other sites I have found and will link to just a bit later.

 

My broad understanding is that Class I and II lasers are safe in general use because:

Class I - laser beam should not be able to get outside of a sealed unit, so cannot hit an eye.

Class II - laser beam is in the human visible spectrum, so activates the blink reflex if it hits a human eye.

 

Other Classes of lasers have more stringent safety considerations.

 

As an infrared laser is invisible to the unassisted human eye my opinion is this:

- infrared lasers are not Class II so are not safe for general or common Airsoft use in the UK.

 

Perfectly willing to change my opinion if someone produces relevant tech info or links.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for that link, but my concern is it still doesn't say what Class that laser is.

(I have used their Sales Enquiry button to ask, and will post any info I get, whether it supports my opinions or not.)

 

My understanding of the effects of lasers comes from the Wiki article I linked and from a few other sites I have found and will link to just a bit later.

 

My broad understanding is that Class I and II lasers are safe in general use because:

Class I - laser beam should not be able to get outside of a sealed unit, so cannot hit an eye.

Class II - laser beam is in the human visible spectrum, so activates the blink reflex if it hits a human eye.

 

Other Classes of lasers have more stringent safety considerations.

 

As an infrared laser is invisible to the unassisted human eye my opinion is this:

- infrared lasers are not Class II so are not safe for general or common Airsoft use in the UK.

 

Perfectly willing to change my opinion if someone produces relevant tech info or links.

 

 

I'm going to assume that it is safe for use on humans, with the information that you posted from wikipedia, this laser is sold as an 8mW 850nm unit, not an 1064 nm (does not state power) unit like the one that your wiki article claims will do damage. Which would make it not IR (under 1000nm) but still out of the range of visible light. As such it would still take a determined exsposure to this light to cause damage.

 

That is not saying that this light is not dangerous at all, using your blind logic our airsoft guns are just as dangerous as the firearms they replicate. While they operate on the same principal (small light object being hurled through the air at high rates of speeds) where as our guns fire objects that weigh less than half a gram at speeds of around 100m/s, proper firearms fire at severals times that with heavier rounds. This laser has less power (speed) and is of a lower band of light (projectile weight) thus causing less damage (impact.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...AND thirdly, if you actually read (and comprehended) what everyone posted you will understand that if someone is using a IR laser on a pistol they will mostly be pointing at the BODY not the FACE/EYES. and even if it did go over their eyes, nobody is gonna sit there and TRY to aim to shoot someone in the eye

 

<_< actually i dont even know why i wrote all this because you probably stopped reading after ' :blink: '

...

 

Well I did read your post, which I regard as worthless. If you have any useful info or links then post them.

 

We wear eye protection when firing BBs not because of anyone deliberately shooting at peoples' eyes, but because there is a risk of being hit in the eyes and we wish to avoid injury/disablement. I'm spelling this out for you because you appear unaware that there are different risks and dangers in use of visible/invisible lasers. If you are aware then you just don't care - your attitude/personality is revealed in your post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm going to assume that it is safe for use on humans, with the information that you posted from wikipedia, this laser is sold as an 8mW 850nm unit, not an 1064 nm (does not state power) unit like the one that your wiki article claims will do damage. Which would make it not IR (under 1000nm) but still out of the range of visible light. As such it would still take a determined exsposure to this light to cause damage.

 

That is not saying that this light is not dangerous at all, using your blind logic our airsoft guns are just as dangerous as the firearms they replicate. While they operate on the same principal (small light object being hurled through the air at high rates of speeds) where as our guns fire objects that weigh less than half a gram at speeds of around 100m/s, proper firearms fire at severals times that with heavier rounds. This laser has less power (speed) and is of a lower band of light (projectile weight) thus causing less damage (impact.)

 

Interesting take on this subject.

When we take some BBs to the face, as is bound to happen sometimes, we duck or cover up in some way - we can react to what we can perceive. The same applies to Class II lasers - we blink to protect our eyes. A similar perception/reaction will not happen with invisible lasers.

 

Here are a couple of relevant extracts from Basic Laser Safety

 

"A. Infrared (IR) - 760nm-1 0,000nm; Slightly longer than the red end of the visible spectrum. It is emitted by all "hot" bodies or objects, which emit heat.

 

Infrared A (IRA) - 760nm-1400nm

Infrared B (IRB) - 1400nm-3000nm

Infrared C (IRC) - 3000nm-10,000nm "

 

 

 

"II. Eye Injuries

 

A. Effects Of Laser Light On The Eye

 

Injuries to the eye occur at much lower powers than injuries to the skin. Eye injuries are more likely to have permanent effects including reduced vision or blindness.

 

B. Parts of The Eye

 

Cornea- Outer layer; withstands mild assaults and heals quickly, usually within 24 hours.

Lens- A flexible issue that changes shape. It focuses light to the back of the eye.

Iris- Controls the amount of light entering the eye.

Pupil- Opening in the center of the eye through which light passes. The size changes in different light conditions.

Retina- Light sensitive area at the back of the eye. The lens focuses the image on the retina, which sends electrical signals to the brain.

Fovea- The most sensitive part of the retina. It is responsible for detailed vision.

Visible and near infrared radiation are absorbed chiefly by the retina and the fovea. They make up the retinal hazard region of the optical spectrum. The retina can undergo thermal, photochemical, and acoustic effects. Blind spots can occur. Irradiance is partly dependent on the pupil size. The size of the pupil determines the amount of laser light entering the eye. It is best to work in well-lit areas so the pupil size is small.

 

C. Exposure Duration

 

Exposure duration affects retinal injury. Short exposures of < 10 seconds and > 1 µsec will cause thermal injury. The injuries occur when energy is absorbed faster than ft is removed. Exposure of < 1 µsec will cause acoustic injuries. The heat causes the irradiated area to expand and tear.

 

Long, low, intense exposures cause photochemical damage.

 

D. Other Effects

 

Ultraviolet A (UVA) and infrared A (IRA) are absorbed by the lens that then undergoes photochemical damage. UVA causes cataracts and premature aging of the lens and IRA causes cataracts."

 

 

It seems people aware of the dangers work on invisible lasers in brightly lit conditions; this is to shrink the pupil size in order to minimise any damage that might occur. Of course this Airsoft discussion revolves around use of infrared lasers in the dark (hence the nvg comments) when our pupils will be at their most dilated, and therefore risking increased/quicker damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol! I call ###### on everything PJH has said in regards to airsoft.

 

Bottom line.

 

That laser is perfectly fine to use in airsoft.

 

Edit: Unless You're being a twat with it ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.