HannibalSmith77 Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I recently acquired a Systema complete mechabox for an M4 and was surprised with a few things. First, Systema only recommends putting it into a TM (plastic body) as a metal body could short out the box. Is there anyway to get around this? I don't even have a plastic bodied M4 anymore. Second, I understand the directions on how to correctly align the motor height. However, I'm worthless and totally uncomfortable opening the gearbox just to do this. Does it have to be done this way or can something else suffice without ruining anything? Finally, Systema only recommends using their 12v battery. Could I not use any brand of quality 12v battery and be fine? Thanks for any help. I've PM'd Sale about this as well, but I'd like to hear something from actual users. Thanks, Hannibal Link to post Share on other sites
samuel Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 You dont open the gearbox to sort the motor height, you turn the grub screw on the bottom of the pistol grip. Link to post Share on other sites
PANZER8 Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I could do with answers/advice on this too. Link to post Share on other sites
HannibalSmith77 Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 You dont open the gearbox to sort the motor height, you turn the grub screw on the bottom of the pistol grip. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, not according to Systema's instruction sheet. It states to remove the main spring, spring guide and piston assembly. Sorry jack, but this has been confirmed on another thread. I know that this is what is recommended. I want to know if I can get away with something like you mentioned or another option. Link to post Share on other sites
samuel Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 No, not according to Systema's instruction sheet. It states to remove the main spring, spring guide and piston assembly. Sorry jack, but this has been confirmed on another thread. I know that this is what is recommended. I want to know if I can get away with something like you mentioned or another option. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> but surely when you take it all to bits again to put those back in it could change? Link to post Share on other sites
HannibalSmith77 Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 but surely when you take it all to bits again to put those back in it could change? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, hence the inherent problem I have with it. I had heard about this being a problem, but I didn't realize that it required this step. I was totally shocked when I read it on the instruction sheet. It basically says they won't warrantee it if you don't do this step, yet it seems they would if you do the step and screw it up by being an idiot and not putting it back together correctly. Link to post Share on other sites
samuel Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Yes, hence the inherent problem I have with it. I had heard about this being a problem, but I didn't realize that it required this step. I was totally shocked when I read it on the instruction sheet. It basically says they won't warrantee it if you don't do this step, yet it seems they would if you do the step and screw it up by being an idiot and not putting it back together correctly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *fruitcage*ed up! Link to post Share on other sites
MDK_Marshal Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Best way to adjust motor height is the way systema sugests; take all the gubbins bar the gears out of the box, and adjust it so there's minimal gear noise. This saves unnecessary stress on the internals, and also makes it easier to hear when the motor height is set correctly, as you don't have to try to listen for the gears over the piston cycling. And if you do it correctly and are careful when re-assembling, you should be fine. No real reason for the grub screw in the pistol grip to change unless you change it yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
HannibalSmith77 Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Best way to adjust motor height is the way systema sugests; take all the gubbins bar the gears out of the box, and adjust it so there's minimal gear noise. This saves unnecessary stress on the internals, and also makes it easier to hear when the motor height is set correctly, as you don't have to try to listen for the gears over the piston cycling. And if you do it correctly and are careful when re-assembling, you should be fine. No real reason for the grub screw in the pistol grip to change unless you change it yourself. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> AHHHH !@#$%^&* I figured that would be the answer. I'll continue to think about it, but if anyone has any other tricks, I'd love to hear it! Thanks MDK Link to post Share on other sites
Corvid Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 As for the battery, unless the mAh is critical (doubt it) you can use just about any pack you want. Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Why are you having to take the gearbox apart when this is a ready made item and supposed to be ready to run? Am I getting this right. Systema will not warrenty the item(whatever that means) unless you take the whole thing apart and mess about with it? The total opposite of any other manufacturers policy in the world. This makes no sense! Could you do us a picture of the specific instructions and indeed a picture of the gearbox as it stands? Link to post Share on other sites
MDK_Marshal Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Tommygun - you've got to have the motor height set, and the best way is to take the box apart and do it without the spring et all. The box itself is ready to run, but it's like putting a new engine in a car - you can't just drop it in and hook the clutch and driveshaft up, you've got to make sure that everything aligns correctly and so forth. I hope that analogy makes sense and is relativley accurate... I'm not quite as good with cars, hard to get one into your room to tinker with Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 MDK, I don't know what to say to that really, you've made me feel like a newb all these years of my technical advice The gearbox is a ready to run unit so I'm supposing all gears etc are shimmed to perfection at the factory including the Bevel gear. This means that the only thing you have to adjust is the motor height which you would do after fitting the gearbox into the receiver and screwing on the pistol grip. I do the adjustment by tightening the motor adjustment grub screw/bolt all the way in(under finger pressure) and then slackening it off by 3/4 to 1 full turn and seeing how it runs. The whole idea of Systema ready to run gearboxes worries me because how do they know what pinion your using(they all differ to a small degree) so how can they have perfect bevel shimming. Then, according to the instructions, they say it is not ready to run but you actually have to strip the whole thing(we don't know why) and re-shim it. Aside from this I've heard numerous times that Systema factory shimming is bumpf anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
HannibalSmith77 Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Why are you having to take the gearbox apart when this is a ready made item and supposed to be ready to run? Am I getting this right. Systema will not warrenty the item(whatever that means) unless you take the whole thing apart and mess about with it? The total opposite of any other manufacturers policy in the world. This makes no sense! Could you do us a picture of the specific instructions and indeed a picture of the gearbox as it stands? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, here are the pics. I hope the instruction shows out ok, my scanner is iffy right now, so I just took a pic. The way I understand it since the motor is Systema's, I believe they assume you'll use their motor and pinion. Therefore it appears they would shim it to their motor pinions. I can't believe they'll warranty the box if I open it. So I guess my question to MDK or anyone is...could I not just put it in and do it the way everyone else recommends? I mean, how much damage would it do that way? There is also another puzzling issue. Systema recommends that if you use a strong tensioned spring with the magnum motor that you switch out the fuse with a commercial grade glass fuse rated at 30 amps. I think the fuse that's in the mosfet (I think that's what it is) is a 35 amp. WTH does any of this cr@p mean? I was so impressed with this setup, but it's becoming a friggin' headache. Thanks for all the help so far. Imaginary +1's all around. Link to post Share on other sites
***Ice*** Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I like the way Systema actually manages to con people into buying their Uber Mecha Boxes (designed and assembled by only the best chimps), then say you can only use their batteries. Got to give them credit for trying. Systema recommends motor adjustment without the spring assembly and such to prevent damage to the bevel and pinion gear. However if you're buying a Systema Mecha box then 9 times out of 10 you can't do gearbox work (Because you'd realise you can achieve better results buying individual parts yourself and installing them in to a CA or TM box) so why they give this advice is anyone's guess. Adjust the motor as you would on a fully assembled AEG - screechy; too far in, grindy; too far out.. although there is a bit more to it. Good luck on 12volts by the way, even if Systema internals were the best in the business (yeah, that's a good one), without modification the piston will strip pretty quickly. Why do Systema have such a good rep with noobs, it's crazy; so many people still seem to think they're the cheese balls when they just aren't? Personally I like Systema bushings(6mm), cylinders and motors, but for everything else there's much better choice out there. Ice Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 What a load of old cobblers that was. As Ice says, and I don't want you to feel bad, but Systema mech boxes are a rip. Just slap that motor in and adjust as I mentioned earlier. Link to post Share on other sites
dismemberd Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Why do Systema have such a good rep with noobs, it's crazy; so many people still seem to think they're the cheese balls when they just aren't? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well...uh...one of my...friends has one... ... Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 They only say that you should adjust the motor height with the piston assy and spring removed when using a strong tensioned spring. The gearbox in question is a Magnum in case you didn't figure that out by now. Normally you can just put the parts together and start adjusting from a less optimal point, but with an M170 spring, 12 volts and Magnum motor, any misalignment during the first shots would already cause substantial damage. It's funny how people bash Systema parts for bad quality, but can't give any specific examples of what's wrong with them and how the competition is better. I've seen their red piston run for thousands of rounds (and counting) flawlessly in M155 and M160 setups, and I have one in my own AEG at a moderate M135. It runs like water. Still though, I have seen the red piston fail as well from time to time, but the piston and the 6 mm ball bearings are the only parts I'm a bit sceptic about. For the rest of the components, I just have to wonder where people come up with these claims that HurricanE or Guarder are better. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
sirrith Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Aye.. I've got all systema internals in my m4, no problems yet, 2 years and counting (apart from the piston which was stock TM, but stripped because of 4**fps after about 1.5 years, and has now been replaced with a deepfire piston and running at around 1J). Couldnt be happier with my gearbox, actually (unless it gave me recoil) Link to post Share on other sites
***Ice*** Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I'm not saying Systema gears, pistons, piston heads, spring guides, tappets, nozzles and bearings are the worst ever, however: Systema gears - I'd stick with CA or Prometheus, Systema gears have varied greatly in quality over the years, I remember the crappy powdery Bevel especially. Systea Pistons - I'd rather use CA, G&P, TM, Deepfire Systma Tappet - I'd rather use Guarder, CA or Element Systema Nozzle - I prefer the Guarder Spring guide - Guarder or King arms are far better made and V3 has a hole in the rear. 7mm bearings - I've seen Systema ones fall to bits under minimal stress, G&P or CA ones seem to be much stronger. Systema piston heads - Actually I hate just about every after market piston head. I'm sure some weapons do last ages on Systema parts, however I just think they'll last even longer with the use of other brands in certain areas, especially if they are high speed setups for example, which Systema is obviously in the market for given its Turbo. Going back to the Mecha boxes though, Tommy nails it; the price they charge for it is a joke. You can save so much cash and achieve better results upgrading your existing TM/CA box etc... I hate to think people believe dropping this ready made idiot proof box into their gun it will turn it into a super reliable ultra high performance AEG. Ice Link to post Share on other sites
crablegs Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I'm not saying Systema gears, pistons, piston heads, spring guides, tappets, nozzles and bearings are the worst ever, however: Systema gears - I'd stick with CA or Prometheus, Systema gears have varied greatly in quality over the years, I remember the crappy powdery Bevel especially. Systea Pistons - I'd rather use CA, G&P, TM, Deepfire Systma Tappet - I'd rather use Guarder, CA or Element Systema Nozzle - I prefer the Guarder Spring guide - Guarder or King arms are far better made and V3 has a hole in the rear. 7mm bearings - I've seen Systema ones fall to bits under minimal stress, G&P or CA ones seem to be much stronger. Systema piston heads - Actually I hate just about every after market piston head. I'm sure some weapons do last ages on Systema parts, however I just think they'll last even longer with the use of other brands in certain areas, especially if they are high speed setups for example, which Systema is obviously in the market for given its Turbo. Going back to the Mecha boxes though, Tommy nails it; the price they charge for it is a joke. You can save so much cash and achieve better results upgrading your existing TM/CA box etc... I hate to think people believe dropping this ready made idiot proof box into their gun it will turn it into a super reliable ultra high performance AEG. Ice <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You only really put up any evidence on 2 of those items, just saying "i prefer..." does not mean that there is anything wrong with them. I believe that most systema parts took a ###### in the last year or two, but there is better manufacturers. Most people think that because systema makes guns that are over a thousand dollars that they MUST be the best. Link to post Share on other sites
***Ice*** Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Buddy, you're giving me flak for saying "I prefer", believe me, I would of got a lot more if I had said "is better because .." with regards to pistons and gearsets; some people believe Systema is the best, because as you rightly point out, they extend beyond just upgrade parts. Ice Link to post Share on other sites
HannibalSmith77 Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Alright guys...if you want to create some Systema v. the World thread bash, then go do it. Somewhere else though... It has been assumed in this thread that I am some uber noob who got suckered into buying Systema because of their "so-called greatness!" Here is reality: I am not a noob by any means. I have opened quite a few of my own gearboxes to fix and have successfully completed them. However, I hate to do that. I think I may have misled everyone when I acted like I couldn't. I acquired this (so I didn't pay for it) because it fulfilled some of my wants and needs. First, most of the gearbox work was already done for me (at least I thought) so I could drop it in and go. It's the only extreme, high power ready made gearbox combo that I could find. I am a law school student and I don't have time to build one from scratch as most have suggested. I understand how that would be advantageous to a person, but if I had that kind of time, I'd rather be playing than building. I appreciate all the help, I really do. I think, however, that this thread became more than it should have. I don't feel it does any help to a person by bashing what they've got or the choice they've made. In helping out, we should try to answer the actual questions and help the person with the choice they did make. Once again, thank you to all. Mods, please feel free to close this thread as all of my questions have been answered. Link to post Share on other sites
HannibalSmith77 Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 We may not be done yet! FYI, I took my donor gun apart finally and was comparing the motors. Compared to a CA, the Systema Magnum motor is slightly taller. Actually the difference is quite substantial since the red metal cage on top (or bottom) is bigger than the standard CA one. So, in a nutshell, I think on the high power ones I would recommend taking the box apart and doing what Systema recommends. For the record, mine is apart and it is surprisingly nice. It was also much easier than previous tear downs. CA bodies also kinda suck as the brass collar at the back of the lower receiver sticks out too far and needs a little removed to make the gearbox sit flush where it needs to be sitting. I'll keep posting things if new issues arise. Link to post Share on other sites
dismemberd Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 What made it easier to take down? Link to post Share on other sites
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