Hillslam Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 In the spirit of the CA M249 Initial Impressions thread I thought I'd start one here for the Star M60E4 I just purchased. This is *not* a review, but is just what the topic says, an initial impressions posting. Feel free to ask questions and I'll get to them as I can. I will have my first chance to skirmish this weapon on Saturday but thats a big IF that depends on my knee healing. On to the review that stall not be called a review: --------------------------------------------------------- Here is the box, nothing special, however I was pleasantly suprised at the material inside. Not a foam, but more like a soft blown plastic. I liked it and it was a very snug fit and clearly protected the gun - there was a massive dent on the outside of the box that never made it to the inside much less affected the gun (dent probably occurred during the interstitial space/time teleportation the Dutch shipping company TNT apparently used to get the gun to my house before it even left Customs in L.A. According to the tracking site, I still don't have my gun??? Oh thats right, today is next Tuesday...) I like that material so much I'm going to see if I can use it in a case shell. The gun itself is light. And not quite all black, but a mix of colors ranging from satin grey to gun metal to gloss to matte black: I have some super high res version of these pics, but you can't handle the high res, so don't ask. Besides I save all my upload bandwidth for porn... that's right, I said upload. The trades. They are not etched on but painted. They look good now, but not sure how long that'll last with my abuse: The mag port: I fiddled with the gamma a tad here. It does a good job of pointing out the metal content on the gun. In a nutshell, here, if it doesn't look metal, it ain't. For those that need it spelled out, here's what's not metal: the feed tray cover is plastic (the cheek pad is molded to it, not a separate piece), the handle is plastic, the trigger is plastic (though the subassembly and guard are metal), the grip of the carry handle is plastic, the heatsheild and foregrip are plastic. The foregrip does not adjust or remove, it is molded on. Everything else is metal of some sort: pot, aluminum, or steel. Continued in next post.... Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 The box mag. I *really* like this boxmag. Its plastic. But its sturdy and the spring loaded top loading door is ingenius and EASY. The box mag attached shown below - note the bb feed tube attached to the receiver. It is anchored by a screw-on collar. Once attached you really need to be looking closely to spot it. The boxmag itself attaches and detaches really smoothly. No twisting, yanking, grunting, levering, or cursing the thing like with the M249s. There's a little detach lever you push that latches onto three holding bolts. I didn't take a pic of that because, well, if you can't figure that out from my words then you don't deserve to wield tools. Turn in your opposable thumb and report to the zoo. The boxmag mounts on the left side. More on that later... Oh look, plastic bullets. Bye. Actually - I retract that sarcasm. I'm keeping em. Because in reality you see all of 3% of one bullet when the boxmag is mounted, so in terms of maintaining the verisimilitude (go look that up) they do fine. And in another aspect, they are LIGHT. More on the whole weight thing later. The feed tray - its held closed by a latch on the right side, and when you open it you get access to the mechbox and the biggest battery compartment this side of a full stock: Maybe bigger. I think a herd of cattle stampeded out of mine when I opened it. Right behind the semi-truck convoy and flock of bats. And that cavity is big enough to swallow a 9.6v 4000mAh large type battery and leaves enough room for the thing to rattle around. Of course you'll notice the connector is a small type. Note to self: buy an adapter! Which brings us to the notorious Star plastic mechbox. Yup, its really plastic, and yup it looks like the M249 one... I'm not doing performance impression yet so here's just a pic. Note the quick release spring in the back and the compression release on the top left: No idea how to get that thing out of there yet. Something tells me it won't be as easy as on the CA M249; 2 bolts and out. Continued in next post.... Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Who let that riffraff into my review? Bouncers? ------------------------- The rear sight and carry handle. The rear sight folds down and is adjustable in elevation but not laterally. That little wheel is molded on. It is metal however The carry handle.... the carry handle. It folds to both sides and has really weak indents holding it in each position. This is good an bad - good in that its not a pain in the a$$ to switch position like on the CA M249, but bad in that it feels wobbly. The handle armature is metal, as is its attach point. The handle itself is covered in a plastic grip. The attach point is a metal sleeve that wraps completely around and under the outer barrel, and the handle is attached to this sleeve with two ( I suppose tempered) pins. Still... I just don't trust it. But then I didn't trust the carry handle in my CA until I hard mounted the outer barrel to the receiver. Note - the carry handle when its in the upright position... blocks the sight. WTF! Man, what yahoo designed this this way? I mean, if a guy can't walk around with his carry handle erect, what *can* a guy do? Its all about presentation, ladies! Pardon me while I tuck in my carry handle. Bah. Look close you'll also see the quick release lever on the far side meaning this is a quick release outer barrel. But unlike the CA M249 I cannot find pre-drilled holes for putting in bolts to hard-attach it. Again - caution is warranted with this handle. Note also the hole in the center of the trades - here's where you adjust the hopup using an Allen wrench. The front sight. Here you can adjust laterally via a small allen wrench, loosen the pin, make your adjustment, tighten, done. It all looks plasticy smooth, but its metal. Chalk this up to the pristine paint job. My M249 looked that way once too.... many many moons ago. I'll sully this soon enough. It *looks* like two different materials here but its all metal. And to the eye, vs to the flash of the camera, it looks the same color. Continued in next post... Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 The front. Despite the camera's flash effect, everything in this area is metal save the heatshield and foregrip. Note the bipod. Unlike the M249, each leg is deployed separately. Pain in the A$$ factor=6. Cool looking factor=8. So we're net positive here. Durability factor=*unknown* ... but they look abit poofta. We'll see but honestly I'm not the best one to rate bipods as that would require me to lay down... One note - yes the outer barrel is metal. It just looks funny with that satin grey finish. But in person its looks very, upscale. Boutique even. Why yes, Lord Fauntleroy, I shop for all my guns on Rodeo Drive... Note also the sling loop on the right side. Being a southpaw I'll be looking to migrate that to the left and will report on that later. Ah the joy of being a leftie. But on the upside, with this gun for a leftie, the boxmag's on the outside! Muh ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa *cough* *cough* Moving on. The Charging Handle. Ah, the charging handle. It MOVES! Gotcha. No, in fact it doesn't. See there I just caught all the weenies who skim and not read. Suckas. For the rest of us; Sorry. Its as stationary as a proposed constitution going thru the EU.... It looks good. But I don't see any easy way to make this thing move. Not a big deal to me since, being a leftie - did I mention the boxmag being on the outside for me? I did? ok - these things just poke me in the gut and are never seen anyway. On my CA M249, with the moveable charging handle - I get the added variety of not knowing where in my gut I'm going to get poked, sorta like Saturday night at a bar except with my jaw, but with this at least I know where it'll jab me. Its frigging nice looking and feel, but it don't move and go *clang*. Sorry, geardos. Please note - the ambidextrous safety switch. Its on the other side too. Nice for a southpaw. Did I mention the boxmag placement? I did? Ok, moving on. While we're over here lets look at the feedtray latch and butt of the gun. Here's the, er, butt: Mmm sexy. Operationally, that latch is weak as hell. Its going to pop open on you. So do something to shore it up. Especially if you're left handed and the buttstock is rubbing up against your shoulder. Still, its not as bad as if you were a rightie and that boxmag was in your wa... ok ok I'll drop it. Tape the feed tray down. Note that the buttstock has a slotted place for a strap, a bottom mounted sling loop and a flip up shoulder bar. Note also that although the cheekpad and feetray cover are one molded piece, they seem to have painted on some rubberized coating where the cheekpad is giving it a rubber feel. How long this lasts is anyone's guess but the look/feel out of the box fools you. So much for the externals once-over. The gun definitely passes the 20ft test, the 10ft test, even the 2ft test if you don't look *really* close. Right up until you pick it up. It is LIGHT. Easily 1/3 the weight of my Classic Army SAW. This is a good/bad thing for you to decide but the important thing to note here is the lightness comes from the use of aluminum. Unlike Star's M249 choice of using plastic. Its a seminal decision for them, and the right one. Metal is *always better*. Period. End of sentence. End of paragraph. One last pic - some while back people were flappin their gums about what's the bigger gun; the Pig or the Saw. Here ya go, you decide: This is of course before you pic it up, too. The Saw's carry handle isn't even erect, and its still really not a contest. Mass and dimensions, its all SAW. Note the boxmag mounted on the *left* side on the pig.... Ok OK, I'll drop it! Still, there's alot to be said for light, and with the battery in the back, way in the back, junk-in-the-trunk style, this gun is very front-light and the balance is great. So as long as you don't in any way got this going on ...then you'll be one-arming this baby around like John Rambo all day long. Foregrip? Thats for sissies. YEAH!!! Hey, John, if you were to shoot that leftie, you wouldn't have to mess with the ammo feed.... ALRIGHT ALREADY, I'm over it! -------------------------- Well thats it for now. I haven't even fired the thing. So we'll see if it even works, and survived the Interstitial Hyperspace warp trip from Hong Kong. BTW - thanks to Uncompany for somehow getting this thing thru customs without having to putty the trades and blaze the tip - you guys are my heros. As always, I am happy to do business with those guys. Questions welcome. Link to post Share on other sites
Victory Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Looks great so far... Can't wait to see more! -Vic Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Looks very nice. I just hope Star do their usual trick of selling the parts seperately. I could do with a new rear sight for my TOP M60 (for less than $150) and I might even consider bunging a star gearbox in it if it's any use. I'm not happy with the way mine works with the V1 gearbox in it. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Rather suprised to see the M249 is bigger than the M60... Great review, though. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Somehow, I was expecting that the charging handle didn't move as with the 249 Star released. Since the box mag only has one tube (bbs) does this mean its a manual winding mag? Great pics by the way. Link to post Share on other sites
vietec Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Hey I went to TNT a few times. How come I never see this nice of a gun up there? Did you special order it? Tell Tim and Rick Brennan said hi next time you're up or down there for me okay? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
[VT]Mofo2000 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Nice review, does the trademark say "SOTA DEFENSE"? Is the outer barrel quick-detachable? BTW, the carry handle blocks the rear sight on the VFC also, just poor ergomonic design in the real steal. Link to post Share on other sites
raggedyman Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 sweet review - imaginary +1 for that :-) Link to post Share on other sites
Xaccers Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Somehow, I was expecting that the charging handle didn't move as with the 249 Star released. Since the box mag only has one tube (bbs) does this mean its a manual winding mag? Great pics by the way. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pressure auto winding I believe. As the back pressure in the feed tube drops by firing, the motor in the box mag kicks in and feeds the bb's. Means there's no pathetic leaf switch to break unlike the M249 Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Yes. And it runs off its own battery, not the gun battery. So no electrical connectors to fiddle with or mung up. I ordered from Uncompany, not TNT. TNT was the name of the dutch shipping company. Trades say SOCA Defense. Look close you'll also see the quick release lever on the far side meaning this is a quick release outer barrel. Link to post Share on other sites
gsquared Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 MAN did UN company take a chance going thru customs without the orange on the barrel..... but if they did seize the shipment...hate to think what may have happened. I hope mine was not fondled my customs.. its finally out for delivery today.... but I'll probably crack it open tonight after the kids goto bed :-( Link to post Share on other sites
mwaggs_jd Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Great review, um first impressions. Couple of things... the carry handle gets in the way on the RS as well, something you get used to if you carry it enough. The feed tray cover tends to pop open of the real steel when not loaded as well. The reason it is so similar in size to the M249 is that this is an E3 (or Mk something Mod whatever), the M60E1 and 2 that were actually used by the US Army had significantly longer barrels on them (only the Marines bought E3's). Overall a very nice looking gun, I love the 60... Link to post Share on other sites
Forze Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 the carry handle is normally only used for quick-removing the barrel during barrel change. Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Great review, um first impressions. Couple of things... the carry handle gets in the way on the RS as well, something you get used to if you carry it enough. The feed tray cover tends to pop open of the real steel when not loaded as well. The reason it is so similar in size to the M249 is that this is an E3 (or Mk something Mod whatever), the M60E1 and 2 that were actually used by the US Army had significantly longer barrels on them (only the Marines bought E3's). Overall a very nice looking gun, I love the 60...Yeah the 60 is something special. The "long" or original versions used by the Army in the 1960s were only 1" longer than the M249 Mk II (42" vs 41") from what I've read, but I don't have one of them to confirm. Obviously this E4 is significantly shorter. AFAIK - The E4 was used by the US Navy since the 80s. Dunno about the other variants. the carry handle is normally only used for quick-removing the barrel during barrel change.Yeah, just like on the SAW, the term "carry handle" is a really misleading, and so I think bad, name. Link to post Share on other sites
Dentonboy Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Fantastic stuff lads, great review and insight. Is it too light though? I thought the TOP M60's were too light and the STAR M249's are very, very light. I like a bit of weight to beef my arms up and I find the CA249 just about right. Now, do I want to buy a HK$4000 M60 or an iPod Nano 1st... Link to post Share on other sites
ECRRRainman Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Oh..... my...... god.......!!! That is the best thing I have read today! But where are you uploading all that porn too!? Oh, and nice quasi/mini/non review of the Star M60 Link to post Share on other sites
hobbywhore Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Nice review. Though I'm wondering, you say there a mix of different colors based on the variety of materials used. I'm guessing it doesn't look as noticeable when looking at it, (as opposed to viewing it from a picture with the camera flash). Also how is the weight balance? Not too heavy in the rear or front? Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 You definitely see the color difference of the outer barrel which is a noticable shade of satin grey/gun metal grey. The rest, to the eye, looks *black*. As expected camera flashes and I'm sure direct sunlight will bring to the eye the color differences more. It doesn't look bad - in fact it adds dimensionality. The gun, once the battery is in, is nicely balanced, but I have to add the caveat I've not loaded up the box mag yet. How that changes the balance I'll have to get to later but so far I think you could quite quickly draw a bead with this gun onto a target. Certainly faster than with my M249. Also while I was looking last night I noticed that the foregrip/heatshield may be held on by two bolts in the bottom of the gun. If thats true it should be relatively easy to convert this to a Mk43 and back; just buy the other part. Again, that assumes Star will make their parts purchasable separately. Link to post Share on other sites
Gdidy Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 so you havent fired it yet LOL man Im anxious to see this I hope star worked out the mox mag issues if they have ima buy one Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 I doubt they have, to be honest. One more thing, on the battery - I found you can fit a stick battery in there with the large type battery I took a picture of. So its entirely conceivable you could fit a 6000mAh custom in that beast. Or a bit of bagged bbs as backup. You know, in case 4,000 in the mag isn't enough... Link to post Share on other sites
Maveric Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 whats the quality of the sling swivels like, made of a hardcore enough metal to support the gun when slung? Link to post Share on other sites
barnezilla Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 this or a 249. such a hard choice... ( would be an easier choice if i was a lefty Link to post Share on other sites
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