[BS]_MARS Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Good one. I was just teasing though. Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Excellent job Hillslam, as always. Impressed by your work, but not the looks of this baby. Too many colours and textures for my liking... I hoped this STAR would be a good parts kit for an Asahi conversion, but I guess not. Looking forward to your 1st field report! Link to post Share on other sites
Forze Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Boxmag wise, imho the VFC still has the most interesting one for an M60. it still works with a tube, but the mag is connected with the AEG power supply so shooting = loading. The only gripes I have with it is that you need to use high end BB's (low quality BB's clog everything up), the standard soldering s*cks bigtime (1 extra layer of solder would fix this but nooooo....) & the tube sometimes is a ****** to connect. But when mounted & checked properly, i can shoot 1000s upon 1000s of BB's without stoppages or sputtering (5500 round mag). I did 300-400 round bursts (12v) @ the Berget game last week without problems. Perhaps some modding could could make the star one function in the same way. Link to post Share on other sites
major09 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Excellent review Hillslam!!! Is it me or the external finish looks like an Inokatsu M60? Had the chance of borrowing my teammates Inokatsu and it really looks almost 80-90% look alike. But of course Inokatsu's M60 has more metal uses real steal/metal parts, heavier... Good news that the gearbox is similar to the Star M249 easily get an wild monkey mbox and pop in an STU + M130 Hope the feeding hiccups are just minor problem cuz our teams Star M249 is outstanding fired more than 30,000 bbs and no miss-feed. Too bad the motor burned by that time... sigh Link to post Share on other sites
yellowman Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 yo hillslam, if tnt says that it was released by customs will I have to pay any fees? great review by the way Link to post Share on other sites
hally26 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 great review hillslam Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Apologies if it has been mentioned somewhere, but does the gun accept any other kind of mags? Like how the CAM249 takes both the regular M16/4 mags and the CA box mag. Link to post Share on other sites
AustinWolv Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Why would a M60 take other mags? The M60 is a belt-fed weapon only. There is no magwell. Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Why would a M60 take other mags? The M60 is a belt-fed weapon only. There is no magwell. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why would it take a box mag for that matter? Surely, an adapter of some sort is not so far fetched, so it can take other box mags or maybe drum mags. Link to post Share on other sites
AustinWolv Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Uhhhh, because the real one uses a soft/box mag. The belt feeds from it, not a magazine. Surely, it is supposed to be a replica of the real M60, right? Perhaps I misunderstood your question, but I don't see why it would take M16 or AK mags like you implied.....unless you are wanting it to be unfaithful to the real-steel design? Link to post Share on other sites
nightfire6 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Why would it take a box mag for that matter? Surely, an adapter of some sort is not so far fetched, so it can take other box mags or maybe drum mags. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The M60 is belt feed from a box mag of a belt of bullets. The mag does not directly feed the gun, rather the gun pulls the belts out of the gun. Unless an adaptor is made, it is impossible for a m60 to use other mags and would be completely impractical as the mag would be gone in a heartbeat. Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Boxmag wise, imho the VFC still has the most interesting one for an M60. it still works with a tube, but the mag is connected with the AEG power supply so shooting = loading. The only gripes I have with it is that you need to use high end BB's (low quality BB's clog everything up), the standard soldering s*cks bigtime (1 extra layer of solder would fix this but nooooo....) & the tube sometimes is a ****** to connect. ... Perhaps some modding could could make the star one function in the same way. I don't *want* the boxmag to function that way. Thats how Star's last SAW worked. The Star M249 draws it's power from the AEG battery and IMO thats a bad design. More mag/gun connections to munk up, some as you described in your own high end VFC M60. Boxmags having their own power supply is the right design - goal being to have as few connection requirements to the gun as possible, and a flexible feed tube is as few as you can get. This boxmag stops and starts as you shoot also. By way of tension on the feed tube, as I described pg1. It too is "shooting=loading". The stuttering/jamming problem I think is in either the pickup wheel or the load tube itself or the strength of the winding motor or general manufacturing sloppiness (burs and whatnot). I'll be disassembling it tonight to see what I can come up with to improve its smoothness and speed. Improvement path: Boxmag 1st. Gun 2nd -------------------------- The gun itself so far I am liking more as I move it around. Growing on me? Oh - I've already dropped it. Only from about 3' and onto carpet. But it passed that test with no ill effects. So thats nice. Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Uhhhh, because the real one uses a soft/box mag. The belt feeds from it, not a magazine. Surely, it is supposed to be a replica of the real M60, right? Perhaps I misunderstood your question, but I don't see why it would take M16 or AK mags like you implied.....unless you are wanting it to be unfaithful to the real-steel design? I think you mis-understood my question. Of course the real steel M60 is fed from the belt, and so is the real steel M249, but CA made the airsoft version of the M249 to be able to take M16/M4 mags, so it's more versatile in the airsoft world (or CA just didn't want to include a box mag with their M249, but anyways). Just wondering if Star did something similar, especially it seems Star's M60 box mag is of poor quality, so maybe one can other mags instead? Link to post Share on other sites
Hay3z Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 I think you mis-understood my question. Of course the real steel M60 is fed from the belt, and so is the real steel M249, but CA made the airsoft version of the M249 to be able to take M16/M4 mags, so it's more versatile in the airsoft world (or CA just didn't want to include a box mag with their M249, but anyways). Just wondering if Star did something similar, especially it seems Star's M60 box mag is of poor quality, so maybe one can other mags instead? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, but the RS M249 is compatable with M4/M16 magazines and the M60 is not.. just like airsoft... so.. yea.. Link to post Share on other sites
AustinWolv Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 I think you mis-understood my question. Of course the real steel M60 is fed from the belt, and so is the real steel M249, but CA made the airsoft version of the M249 to be able to take M16/M4 mags, so it's more versatile in the airsoft world (or CA just didn't want to include a box mag with their M249, but anyways). Just wondering if Star did something similar, especially it seems Star's M60 box mag is of poor quality, so maybe one can other mags instead? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's because the real M249 does take M16 mags. It can accept belts of linked 5.56 x 45 mm NATO (.223 inch) ammunition through the top-mounted feed tray or M16-type magazines through the side-mounted port. The latter allows a SAW gunner to use riflemens' magazines in an emergency if he runs out of belted ammunition, though this often causes jams as the magazine spring cannot adequately keep up with the weapon's high rate of fire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_Squad_Automatic_Weapon Asahi, CA, TOP, PGC-converted and the clone M249s all are supposed to take M16 mags because the real one does. The airsoft M60s shouldn't take any mag because the real one doesn't either. Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 I see, I stand corrected. Link to post Share on other sites
Fighting Maus Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 HillSlam, Thanks for the review (impressions) I am considering purchasing one of these as well, except for the fact that the box magazine feeds the same as my Star C-Mag. I think the internals of the two magazines are the same, just a different package. I had the SAME problems with my C Mag as you described. I took it apart and lubed it, went from 2 stock AA to 3, then 4, and nothing really seemed to improve its function. I then went to a 9V and as soon as the on/off switch was flipped smoke issued from the wiring and it ceased to work. Disgusted I put it back into its box and onto my project shelf. I personally am looking forward to your remedy on your M60 box mag. If it works, I'll most likely purchase one as it is the least expensive M60 on the market. Afterwords I might revisit my Star C-Mag and hopefully be able to repair it. Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites
freq88 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 I believe there is a remedy for Star box mag's on one of the Filipino airsoft forums. Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 I've just finished cleaning and lubing the boxmag. I uploaded a vid to show how its running now, and ran it side by side with my 300,000rd CA boxmag (who'd also been cleaned and oiled several times by me over its life). The Star now seems to get its ROF almost to the CA's. But the smoothness is just not there. I think that's endemic to the design - its not a spring-backed system so the motor has to overcome any momentary resistance spikes, and has no spring to help it. I also toyed with putting another AA in the loop - wouldn't boost the voltage so high as a 9v, wow, but I tried another in parallel with one of the stock three (putting one in series to truly up the voltage would require soldering) and gained some but nothing worth mentioning. I beleive there is either a tremendous amount of friction for the motor to overcome or the motor itself is underpowered. I hope its the former because that'll work itself as the boxmag gets used and broken in. I think it is resistance, because ocassionally when I start this boxmag running it slowly builds up to speed. Here's the vid - you draw your own impressions. Boxmag Comparison - improvements post cleaning BTW - I did *not* fill the CA fully despite what I said on the vid, I was mistaken. One other note - I had to really stretch the CA's feed tube for it to reach over the ammo bin wall, so it was at a real feeding disadvantage. Still, it kept em coming smooth as silk. Still, I'm not given up on the Star yet. I'm heartened by the significant improvement from as-bought just from a lubing and oiling/cleaning. I intend to keep running rounds thru it and hopefully as things loosen up we'll continue to see gains. Gun, good. Boxmag, improving. I believe there is a remedy for Star box mag's on one of the Filipino airsoft forums. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Please post this link, I'm very intrigued. Link to post Share on other sites
Massumma Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 I'm dissapointed. I was looking ofrward to this, but it seems like it has to many problems. Plus, I find the lack of a movable bolt unexcusable, especially on a pig. Its big, and threatening. It should make big, threatening noises. I find it strange that the box mag feeds so badly. I have a STAR S-Mag, which seems to be very similar in terms of desing, and it feeds fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Took it out today for practice shooting and to adjust the hop and sights. Still alot of misfeeds. Especially with a 320fps spring. Push that to "position 2" or whatever and it gets abit better as the boxmag can better keep up. I'd prefer to jsut throw in a 350-380fps spring (sorry mods) to slow the gun down to the boxmag or run an 8.4v battery instead of the recommended 9.6v. Regardless there were mulitple jam ups. Most clearable by a short shake of the gun. Clearly the fault of the boxmag. As for the shooting - spread was all over the place. I may be spoiled by my use of a tightbore in all my other guns so take that info in tow. The hopup worked fairly well, though it was touchy. The set screw turned REALLY easily too - you'd almost want to dribble a dab of Locktite down there once you get it dialed in so it keeps its setting. No fuse. Yup no fuse. Don't know how I missed this. But it (the wiring) gets HOT. The wiring is not 16 gauge. So I'll be replacing it. I recommend a fuse and rewiring to everyone. The gun is loud. Louder than the CA M249. Must be the battery compartment acting as a resonator, but with your cheek up to the gun to fire it your ear WILL be buzzing by end of the day. Forget hearing people calling their hits - watch for the red rags, gunners. You *could* put a rag or something in the compartment to muffle it out but then you're asking for real trouble heatwise, especially given its stock wiring. Still, its a unique sound, if you care about that sort of thing. Again, let me reiterate - its loud. Also, because of the light metal, it recoils. Which I admit is cool. If its up against your cheek you KNOW you are firing it. It feels badass. If only what was coming out the end of the barrel matched what your cheek/ear was telling you... I heard a few scarey noises from the mechbox but nothing seized up. Still, I think I heard the telltale sound of a piston off sync with the sector gear so I'm going to have to look at it now. Burst wise - forget 300-400 round bursts. Long lurid pulls of the trigger? Nope. Obliterating a bush line where you know an enemy squad is hunkering down? Nope. Know where your target is? Ok yeah then ok: You get maybe 20 or so rds out before you leave the boxmag feed gasping and wheezing to catch up. Recalibrate your brain to "automatic-rifleman" mode instead of "support gunner". The only thing you'll be supressing game day is your expectations. After those 20 rds or so per pull its all dry fire with the occasional bb thrown out for good measure. But just let off the trigger for a sec and everything is fine. Moral of the story - this gun is about short bursts. Bottom Line - this gun needs attention to its internals before its truly skirmishable. Support gunning is a money, time, attention, and patience consuming role. This new Star does nothing to change that. Don't expect you'll just lift it out of the box, slap in a battery and pour in some bbs and go hit a milsim event. Unless all you're doing is lighting up your family in your backyard you have to massage this gun before you show up in front of strangers using it. Me I'll be disassembling the mechbox, the hopup, and lubing the boxmag and feeding tube (both in the gun and the mag) to within an inch of its life. I know the excess silicon oil plays havoc with hopup grip and ergo accuracy - but i'll take feeding over accuracy in a support gun any day. I expect I'm going to sink another $100-$150 into it to get it where I want it. I know now I can get it there, its all there. It just needs attended to. I'll be going for a 350-380fps spring - should slow the motor enough for the boxmag. A piston. Pistonhead, hopup bucking, maybe a nozzle, cylinder head, tightbore (6.04 not a 6.03), 16gauge wiring, and then see where it goes from there. But first - in the interest of a full run-down I'm going to play an event with it bone stock. Use it til it breaks. And I'm pretty sure something on it is going to break game 1. I'm taking bets. Check back after next weekend. Link to post Share on other sites
nightfire6 Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Others say that their M60's were fine, no box mag problems and such. The only thing they said of worry was about the "carry handle". Link to post Share on other sites
ardrummer292 Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 How incredibly dissapointing. Link to post Share on other sites
Hillslam Posted June 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Others say that their M60's were fine, no box mag problems and such. The only thing they said of worry was about the "carry handle". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who, where, when? Links please? I'm interested in consulting with other owners. I have some questions. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
nightfire6 Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Who, where, when? Links please? I'm interested in consulting with other owners. I have some questions. Thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...ic=111121&st=80 Well Lasse said that his fired flawlessly. Another one was a french at franceairsoft. http://www.france-airsoft.fr/forum/index.php?showtopic=79713 Link to post Share on other sites
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