M14 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Vietnam Airsoft Guide This guide is mainly for people just getting into Vietnam airsoft as it is not very in depth Camouflage Duck Hunter / BEO GAM / Spotted Advisors and Special Forces in the begining of the Vietnam war often wore civilian or in-country made duck hunter, BEO GAM or spotted camouflage. Since the pants in Vietnam lasted 3 times less than the shirts, the patterns were often mismatched. Tiger Stripe Like the BEO GAM camoflauge tiger stripe fatiuges were often bought and made in Vietnam as it was not a U.S. issue pattern. Tiger stripe was a popular pattern among SF units and advisors in Vietnam. ERDL Developed after World War II, the ERDL pattern consisted of four colors and even though it proved a better camouflauge than standard OG-107 fatiuges it was agreed that the OG-107 fatiuges were better for general use in Vietnam. Although the Military decided not to use the pattern, a couple hundred of them were shipped to Vietnam for evaluation. Most were used by SF units. Tropical Combat Used by the majority of soldiers in Vietnam, the tropical combat jacket and pants had a few versions, which were all very similar, but the 3rd pattern was most common. Army Utility The utility shirt with only two pockets and the pants with no cargo pockets were used in the very begining of the war by infantry soldiers. Hats & Helmets M1 Helmet Throughout the Vietnam war, the M1 helmet was issued to almost all soldiers. Although the steel helmet would not stop a direct hit it would protect the soldier from shrapnel. The helmet consisterd of the steel outer helmet, the liner and the chin strap. Just about every soldier had a mitchell pattern helmet cover on his M1 helmet. Mitchell Pattern Helmet Cover Originally developed for the Marine Corps, the mitchell pattern cover became standard issue in Vietnam for the Army also. Unlike other helmet covers, the mitchell one was reversible with the green leaf pattern "summer" camoulage and the brown and tan "winter" camouflage on the other side. USMC Rubber Helmet Band The Marines in Vietnam were not widely issued the standard Army OD helmet band so many Marines made their own. The most common helmet bands the Marines made were from the inner tube of the M-151 "Mutt". The helmet bands were used to hold the helmet cover in place and to hold items such as incect repellant and ciggeretes on their M1 helmet. Army Helmet Band Unlike the USMC rubber helmet band, the Army one was issued to the soldiers. It was used for the same things as the Marine Corps one but was green and not made of rubber. Boonie Hat The boonie hat was popular with the soldiers in Vietnam and many soldier bought BEO-GAM and tiger stripe to replace the OD and ERDL one issued to them. Boots Jungle Boots Because the normal leather combat boots rotted in the jungle very quickly the Army looked for a way to make a lightweight boot better suited for the jungle. Although jungle boots were developed before the Vietnam, the design was perfected during the war. Lether Combat Boots Before the jungle boots were widely issued, early in the war some soldier wore the leather combat boots. They rotted out very fast in the jungle. Flak Vests M1952A Flak Vest The Korean war issue M1952A flak vest saw use early in Vietnam before it was replaced with later models. Although the flak vests did not stop direct hits from bullets it stopped shrapnel from hitting the soldiers vital organs. M1955 Flak Vest The Marine Corps M1955 flak vest which replaced the M1952 flak vests saw use in the Vietnam war. Although the flak vests did not stop direct hits from bullets it stopped shrapnel from hitting the soldiers vital organs. M69 Flak Vest The M69 flak vest was the most common one used in Vietnam and was an improvment over the M1952 and M1955 flak vests. Although the flak vests did not stop direct hits from bullets it stopped shrapnel from hitting the soldiers vital organs. Rucksacks M1952 Rucksack Popular among Special Forces early in Vietnam the M1952 rucksack was an improved design over the WWII mountain rucksack. ARVN Rucksack Designed for ARVN (Army of Republic Vietnam) as a replacement for the M1945 combat field pack, the non water-resistant cotton pack proved too small and heavy. Tropical Rucksack MACV requested a nylon version of the ARVN rucksack in 1965 and the military developed one which was a little larger. Tropical rucksack began to be used in Vietnam in 1968. Lightweight Rucksack The lightweight rucksack, which had over double the capacity of the Armys buttpack, was attached to a metal frame and the packs position on the fram could be adjusted. Belts & Pouches M1956 Equipment Belt The adjustable, cotton M1956 belt used a ball-hook buckle or sometimes Davis T buckle. It was used to hold pouches for ammunition or equipment. M1956 Suspenders The H style M1956 suspenders attached to the equipment belt and held it up. M1956 Universal Ammunition Pouch The cotton M1956 univeral pouch was designed to carry either 3 M14 magazines or 4 M16 magazines. Most M1956 pouches had straps on either side to hold a grenade. M1956 Compass / First Aid Pouch The M1956 pouch was often cliped to the fabric on the M1956 suspenders and held either a small first aid kit or a lenstatic compass. M1956 1 Quart Canteen Cover The cotton M1956 canteen cover held a 1 quart canteen. It also had a felt lining. Soldiers often carried spare magazines in the canteen pouch. M1956 Shovel Cover The M1956 shovel cover had clips on the back and two eyelets to attach a bayonet to it. It was made to hold M1943 or M1951 intenching tool. M1967 Equipment Belt The nylon M1967 equipment belt usually used a Davis T fastener and held pouches for ammunition and equipment. M1967 Suspenders The H style nylon M1967 suspenders had snaps on the shoulders allowing the buttpack to be worn on the back instead of on the belt. M1967 20rd M16 Ammunition Pouch The M1967 20rd M16 pouch, which was made using nylon, held four 20rd M16 magazines and also was able to hold two grenades on either side of the pouch. M1967 First Aid / Compass Pouch The M1967 compass / first aid pouch was the same design as the M1956 one, but made of nylon instead of cotton. M1967 1 Quart Canteen Cover The nylon M1967 canteen cover held a 1 quart canteen and also had a small pouch on it for water purification tablets. Soldiers often carried spare magazines in the canteen cover. M1961 M14 Magazine Pouch The USMCs M1961 pouch held one M14 magazine and had two holes on the bottom to attach either a first aid or grenade pouch. In 1964, the pouch and flap were lengthend. M3 Bandoleer The M3 bandoleer had seven pocket which soldiers in Vietnam would put 20rd M16 magazines in. M60 Bandoleer The M60 bandoleer held a cardboard box of 100 7.62mm linked rounds. The pouch could be attached to the metal hanger on the m60 and be used a "box mag". M79 Bandoleer The M79 bandoleer held 6 40mm grenades. Claymore Mine Bag The claymore mine bag was a two pocket bag, which held one claymore mine and its accesories. It was often used to carry extra magazines. M911 Pouch The cotton M1911 Poch held two .45 magazines and attached to a equipment belt. M3 Pouch The cotton 3 pocket M3 grease gun pouch held 3 M3 magazines. It attahced to a equipment belt. Jungle First Aid Kit The jungle first aid kit attahced to the equipmet belt using a wire hanger. M1911 Holster The M1911 holster held a Colt 45 pistol and was made from black leather. It used a wire hanger to attach to the equipment belt. Miscellaneous Insect Repellent Often called "bug juice" the small 2 oz bottle was often carried on the M1 helmet using a helmet band. Originally in a white bottle, it was later changed to a green one. Towel The OD towel issued to soldiers was ofter carried around the neck and used to wipe sweat and dirt off their bodies. Neckerchief The neckerchief was used to wipe sweat and dirt off the soldiers bodies. Insignia 101st Airborne Division 25th Infantry Division 9th Infantry Division 1st Airmobile Divison 1st Infantry Division 23rd Infantry Division Special Forces Weapons M3 Grease Gun The M3 was used by SF and soldier early in the war but later was givin more to the ARVN. M2 Carbine Weapons like the M2 carbine were often givin to ARVN forces. ARVN forces were supplied with old Korea and WWII surplus rifles. M60 The army LMG at the time, the M60 saw lots of use. It was carried by soldiers as well as mounted on helicopters and vehicles. M1911 The M1911 was the standard issue pistol during the Vietnam war. Many heavy weapon and high ranking soldiers carried one. XM-177 The XM-177 is a shortened version of the M16. Although it was liked by SF, very few saw frontline combat. M14 Originally going to become the militarys next major rifle before the M16 replaced it, the M14 was used in Vietnam but many were only used on semi auto becuase of the big calibre and light weight, on full auto the muzzle climb would become too great. M79 Developed as a weapon in between a rifle grenade and a mortar, the M79 fired 40mm grenades. because of its size, any soldier using one would not be able to carry an assault weapon as well. Many different types of grenades were available such as smoke, HE, illumination and more. M72 LAW The M72 LAW (light anti-tank weapon) was a single shot disposible rock launcher which was light enough to be carried easily by a soldier. Thompson M1A1 Used by some US soldeirs in the begining of the war, the M1A1s were later givin to the ARVN. M6 Bayonet The M6 bayonet attached to the M14 rifle and was carried in the M8A1 scabbard. M7 Bayonet The M7 bayonet attached to the M16 rifle and was carried in the M8A1 scabbard. Smoke Grenade The smoke grenade was used to cover movement, attacks, retreats and also to mark landing and extraction zones. Grenade Soldiers often carried many grenades and early in the war MK.II "pineapple" grenades were used but when stockpiles were used up they switches to M26A1 "lemon" grenades. Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 A few things to add: -The Special Forces insignia at the time consisted of the "Electric Sword" patch and an Airborne qualification tab. The Special Forces qualification tab was only introduced after the war ended. -The M2 Carbine was the select-fire version of the M1. It featured a larger 30 round magazine. The M2 was used by ARVN forces and their US advisers during the early part of the war. -Four versions of the AR-15 were used during the war. The first featured a 3-prong "duckbill" flash suppressor, did not have a forward assist, and used "waffle" style magazines with vertical and horizontal indentations. A few of these were sent to ARVN units and advisers for evaluation in the early part of the sixties (1961-63). The second iteration of the AR-15 was the M-16. This featured a stronger 3-prong flash suppressor, but still did not have a forward assist. The third iteration, the XM16E1, was adopted by the Army in late 1964/early 1965. It featured a forward assist, but still lacked a chromed chamber and barrel. The final iteration of the AR-15 used in Vietnam was the M16A1, featuring a chromed chamber and bore, round "birdcage" flash suppressor, and forward assist. Both Classic Army and Tokyo Marui make replicas of the XM16E1, and Marui makes an A1 replica. -XM-607E1 (CAR-15 SMG): This weapon was designed by Colt for tank and AFV personnel, but was used by SEAL teams, Army SF units, and USAF K9 handlers. Based on an XM16E1 reciever, the 607 featured a 10" barrel, short triangular handguards, and a two-position retractable buttstock. Initially, the 607 used the standard 3-prong flash suppressor, but problems with recoil forced the introduction of first a 3.5 inch, and later a 4.25 inch moderator. Tokyo Marui produced a replica of the XM-607E1 which was called the "CAR-15." -XM177E1 (CAR-15): The 177 series of carbines was a development of the 607 series of AR-15 carbines. Featuring a longer 11.5" barrel, and retaining the 607's 4.25" moderator, the 177 saw the introduction of the "skeleton" 4-position stock (later adapted to the 6-position stock found on the M4), and circular handguards. The reciever was that of the XM16E1. The XM177E1 saw heavy use by Special Forces, SEALs, SOG, Recondo units, and Rangers. BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle, Caliber .30, M1918): The BAR was given to ARVN units by the US during the early sixties, and saw use by CIDGs until the war's end. Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 There are actually three versions of the XM177 family. XM177: 10" barrel, CAR15 flash hider and forward assist. XM177E1: 11.5" barrel, new flash hider/grenade launcher, NO forward assist. XM177E2: 11.5" barrel, new flash hider/grenade launcher with forward assist. Link to post Share on other sites
M14 Posted June 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Its good that people want to add things! We can really make this a good guide. I forgot to include the M1956 and M1961 buttpack. Basicly they were used to carry extra items the soldier needed. I made the guide very brief becuase its made more for people just getting into Vietnam airsoft and just was a nice loadout, not too much confusing info. Anyway I would like to add that the 3 prong flash hider was replaced with the closed "birdcage" one partly because the 3 prongs had a tendancy to catch on the think undergrowth of Vietnam. Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Pjones, Concerning the waffle mags, are you sure your not confusing them with AR10 mags? Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Nope, the very first magazines made for the AR-15 were AR-10 style waffle magazines. Some even found their way to RVN in the hands of advisers. Link to post Share on other sites
themadblimper Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 The AK-47 also served as a counter to the M16 for the Vietcong. And to add a little, when my grandfather served in Vietnam, he captured an AK from a vietcong and later on when his M16 jammed in a firefight, the AK saved his life. Link to post Share on other sites
M14 Posted June 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Nope, the very first magazines made for the AR-15 were AR-10 style waffle magazines. Some even found their way to RVN in the hands of advisers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You also have to remember that the first AR15s to Vietnam were the civilian ones. So any mags they used were civilian bought and waffle mags were sold to civilians. Also pjones, ARVN stand for Army of Republic Vietnam and the military wouldnt of sent the first batches of AR-15s for evaluation to the ARVN. They would of went to advisors and SF. Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 You also have to remember that the first AR15s to Vietnam were the civilian ones. So any mags they used were civilian bought and waffle mags were sold to civilians. Also pjones, ARVN stand for Army of Republic Vietnam and the military wouldnt of sent the first batches of AR-15s for evaluation to the ARVN. They would of went to advisors and SF. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's what I said. Some even found their way to RVN in the hands of advisers. RVN = Republic of Viet Nam Link to post Share on other sites
M14 Posted June 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 A few of these were sent to ARVN units and advisers for evaluation in the early part of the sixties (1961-63). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Im refering to this that you wrote. Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Im refering to this that you wrote. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, that's true as well. "Curtis LeMay viewed a demonstration of the AR-15 in July 1960. He immediately ordered 8,500 for defense at Strategic Air Command airbases, later rescinded by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara. Colt Industries also approached the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA), who bought 1,000 rifles for use by South Vietnamese troops in the early summer of 1962. American special operations units and advisers working with the South Vietnamese troops filed battlefield reports lavishly praising the AR-15 and the stopping effectiveness of the 5.56 mm cartridge, and pressed for its adoption." From Wiki Link to post Share on other sites
Crispin1025 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 The AK-47 also served as a counter to the M16 for the Vietcong. And to add a little, when my grandfather served in Vietnam, he captured an AK from a vietcong and later on when his M16 jammed in a firefight, the AK saved his life. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ak47 FTW yet again, I still see videos of guys using the in Iraq, normally in Marine videos. Cheers, Daniel Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Pjones, Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about the frog leaf guy. If you want to go outside of the AR/AK thing then you could do a Navy Seals impression with an HK33. Seals used the licence built Harrington & Richardson T223. Link to post Share on other sites
massacreman Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Nice guide, considering that Ive just started to finally compile a Nam loadout. Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Blackgoat Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Really good stuff there guys, but the title shoud read "Vietnam Airsoft Guide, for the FNG's" don't you think And Tommygun, I always though the G33 would be great, but thought I'd get flamed for proposing it on Arnie's... SEALs had so many equipment, even that pump action 40mm grenade launcher. And of course, the Stoner Mk63. I've got books about the SEALs and LLRPs in Vietnam with great pictures, sadly it's 1000 km from here, safe in my house. They show guys using plenty of cool stuff, like Swedish K (can't remember the proper name ATM, they were also made under license by S&W), S&W Hush Puppies, GP35, etc. There is also that famous pic of Richard Marcinko showing an M16 (you can't see which type) with the XM148. Even rarer, in the book on LRRPs a guy has one of those GL under an XM177E2 (and a beautiful Fu Manchu moustache BTW). If I had a chance to build that in a functionning airsoft version, it could even make me buy an AR! Also, note on the picture pjones posted that the ARVN troops have Garand. I think M1/M2 carbines were more for higher rank soldiers, interpretes, guides, etc. Both ARVN and VC/PAVN used massively the MAT45 9mm french SMG, and probably MAS36 bolt action rifles, maybe MAS49 or MAS49/56 semi-auto rifles, all in french 7.5mm. The semi-auto rifle was only in limited numbers in the French Army, used mainly as a DMR with a scope, and I doubt that many found their way in North Vietnamese hands. Note also that the French Army used a lot of Garand M1, M1 carbine, BAR (the french FM24-29 wasn't widely issued anymore) actually the equipement was 50/50 between US and french made, and all those weapons were re-distributed in both North and South armies when they could not have been destroyed. Once PRC's and USSR's aid arrived, PAVN were massively equiped with SKS and -a few in comparison- AK47 - or Type 56 Carbine and Assault Rifle and the VC got the rest. Mauser rifles and Mosin-Nagant seemed to be widely used as sniper rifles (even without scopes). Link to post Share on other sites
Kama Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 the proper name of the swedish k is Carl Gustaf Kpist m45. Carl Gustaf being the company Carl Gustafs Stads Gevärsfaktori that made them, kpist means submachine gun in swedish and m45 means model 45 witch is the year the swedish army adopted it. The Smith and Wesson m76 was a copy of the swedish k but looked a lot diferent Carl Gustaf Kpist m45 http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg48-e.htm Smith and wesson m76 http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg85-e.htm Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Here's a picture of a SEAL with a Harrington and Richardson T223: SEAL with XM148 UGL: And here's Colt's proposed CAR family of weapons: Left to right: Standard 20" with HEAT rifle grenade, M605 "dissipator" with 16" barrel, survival rifle for pilots, M607 "tanker" carbine, belt fed HBAR. Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 I have a picture in one of my 'NAM' series mags which shows a Seal, SOG or other SF using a Hungarian AMD-65 so an Inokatsu would be quite valid. Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Blackgoat Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 pjones, interresting to note that the 20" already sports a forward assist, while non of the others do. And that pic of the SEAL with the T223 was also in my book. Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 pjones, interresting to note that the 20" already sports a forward assist, while non of the others do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is odd, I didn't notice it until you pointed it out. It might have something to do with the rifle grenade. Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Blackgoat Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Hmm, that might be a hint. Rifle grenades use either normal cartridges or special cartridges looking like blanks, just a lot more poweful, and the forward assist is just used to lock the bolt when the rifle is dirty... Maybe it has to do with the "blank" type of cartridges that weren't as reliable on loading? It could also interfere with the weapon's proper cycling. Anyone has infos on rifle grenades used by the US Army at that time? I only know about the one we use nowadays, in the French Army... Quite funny to shoot, and damn accurate too! Link to post Share on other sites
Insanejoe Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 The Garand, and BAR were used by advisors and ARVN soldiers early in the war. Also I have a Vientam war book which mentions use of the H&K G3 by SEALs. Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Blackgoat Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Imported by H&T too probably... Or would it be the same G33 and a typo? Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 My guess would be the book is incorrect and they are mistaking a G3 for a 5.56 T223. Still you can't rule anything out. Lord Blackgoat, Does the French Army use ball rounds or blanks to fire rifle grenades off the FAMAS? Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Blackgoat Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 AFAIK, we have both types of grenades available. I've only seen the blank cartridge type ones, but I've been told that some models are ball-trap type, using normal cartridges, where the bullet is caught by the grenade and propels it. The ones that need the special blank cartridge come with it in the box IIRC. You select the type of grenade depending on your target actually, anti personnel/anti vehicle (sort of frag) or anti vehicle only - mostly for unarmored vehicles anyway. M14, sorry for the thread hijack! I know that that type of propelled grenades was used during WWII with M1 Garand (as seen in Saving Pvt Ryan) and probably in Korea, but what after? Never seen a picture of it in later conflicts, the combination 40mm launchers + LAW76 seems to have replaced them. Any info on that? That could be relevant for a Vietnam loadout I think (at least an early one...) Link to post Share on other sites
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