dookieboy Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 You said gear too.... Also shotguns weren't really used that much I remember seeing some SF guys using them and I remember also tunnel rats would use them. Link to post Share on other sites
airsofter0866 Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 I ment shotgun gear Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 To the best of my knowledge no such thing as 'gear' existed and is a relatively recent innovation. You either filled regular mag pouches with cartridges, used a civvy/mil shotgun cartridge belt/sling or made your own stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 what shotguns and gear were used during vietnam? Links/pics would help a lot! Here you go! That's "Bunny" from the movie Platoon sporting an Ithaca 37 (my opinion, one mighty FINE shotgun). For the most part, I would think its what someone wielding a shotgun would look like in the 60's...possibly. I'm probably WAY off, but I do recall a Geneva Convention (or some equivalent) that prevented the use of shotguns during the war. Again, I could be WAY WAY off here, but that may be the reason you don't see too many pictures as they were no longer being issued. I do know the Marines and Army were issued Ithaca 37's, so that's the gun you would probably want. I also recall seeing shotgun shell pouches from WWII that were used through Vietnam, notably by the Marines. It had the double wire hook on the back to hang off the M61 belts and little loops inside to secure 12ga shells. Edit: it was the Hague Convention that prevented the use of slugs, thus making shotguns firing the standard slug illegal. I would guess the double-ought buck would be ok. Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Here you go! That's "Bunny" from the movie Platoon sporting an Ithaca 37 (my opinion, one mighty FINE shotgun). For the most part, I would think its what someone wielding a shotgun would look like in the 60's...possibly. I'm probably WAY off, but I do recall a Geneva Convention (or some equivalent) that prevented the use of shotguns during the war. Again, I could be WAY WAY off here, but that may be the reason you don't see too many pictures as they were no longer being issued. I do know the Marines and Army were issued Ithaca 37's, so that's the gun you would probably want. I also recall seeing shotgun shell pouches from WWII that were used through Vietnam, notably by the Marines. It had the double wire hook on the back to hang off the M61 belts and little loops inside to secure 12ga shells. Edit: it was the Hague Convention that prevented the use of slugs, thus making shotguns firing the standard slug illegal. I would guess the double-ought buck would be ok. Buckshot is legal, however after WWI the Germans tried to get it banned. Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt-McKenzie Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Shotgun gear were modified slings (regular all purpose straps modified to attach shells, for exemple as seen in "Uniforms and Equipment of US ARMY Infantry, LRRPs and RANGERS in Vietnam" - W.MIRALDI) and shotguns pouches (twelve cartridges) in cotton canva. WWII pouches were khaki with a "US" stamped on the front flap. The later were OD but the construction is similar. http://www.vietnamgear.com/kit.aspx?kit=365 (date says 1969 but I think it's the date of that particular pouch in the photo since they were used in WWII...but I don't know when they began to be OD) Link to post Share on other sites
Angry Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Good thread guys! Just got a quick question regarding insignia. Was the ranger tab worn in the same way as it is today? I.e. would a trooper from the 1st Cav be seen wearing a ranger tab above shield/horses head patch (I've no idea what the 1st cav patch is formally called!). Link to post Share on other sites
CapaciousZepher Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Does anyone have any more info on this fellow/fellows? (I'm not sure if they're both the same guy) I'm looking to do a Vietnam loadout and I quite like the look this guy has going. I'm assuming he's special forces of some discription, and yes, I've read this thread. Also would the chicom rig in the picture be a Type 63? Also what type of rifle would he most likely be using? Thanks, Cheers! - CapaciousZepher Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 It's two different blokes. The chestrig is your standard Chinese AK47 rig i.e. 3 mag pockets plus grenade pockets, in this case probably locally made in Vietnam. I think they are either Lurp or SOG but who knows. One guy is certainly US Army so that discounts Seals etc. They are both using an AR15 derivative rifles, note magazines in pouches and M16 next to bloke writing. Edit: Just looked at the first pic a bit closer and indeed it is a Type 63 chest rig since it doesn't have the depth below his left hand. No doubt the same for the second guy. Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Does anyone have any more info on this fellow/fellows? (I'm not sure if they're both the same guy) I'm looking to do a Vietnam loadout and I quite like the look this guy has going. I'm assuming he's special forces of some discription, and yes, I've read this thread. Also would the chicom rig in the picture be a Type 63? Also what type of rifle would he most likely be using? Thanks, Cheers! - CapaciousZepher I'm not sure the lower picture is Special Forces. At least his shoulder patch (the top one) is 11 ACR. I can't tell what the bottom patch is. Like Tommygunn said, I also think its a Type 63 (you see the smaller pockets to the side?). I think the SKS pockets were also used to hold the shorter M16 magazines as well, but they look a bit different. Link to post Share on other sites
CapaciousZepher Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Thanks for the info guys. So using a M16A1 with a loadout similar to that would be fine? As opposed to using a M16 carbine of some discription (as listed earlier in the thread). Also what patches should I be going for? Or are patches still a bit taboo. I figure they may be a little more allowable since it's a recreation of a past conflict. Thanks again, - CapaciousZepher Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Thanks for the info guys. So using a M16A1 with a loadout similar to that would be fine? As opposed to using a M16 carbine of some discription (as listed earlier in the thread). Also what patches should I be going for? Or are patches still a bit taboo. I figure they may be a little more allowable since it's a recreation of a past conflict. Thanks again, - CapaciousZepher I think the M16A1 would be perfect. The thing I don't like about the short carbines are that there's really no good replica out there (e.g. all the metal body kits have something wrong about them) and it's tough to make a good copy. As for the patches, I personally don't care at all if an airsofter wore a patch...mater of fact, I think it would be nice to see someone sporting a patch of the squadron I was assigned to (HC5, NAS Agana). I do understand how it might "offend" certain folks as there is some form of tradition to them (e.g. an EGA, 173rdAB, 1stAC, 3rdID, etc....I don't even think they sell the patches from HC5 as we were inactivated a few years after I left). I personally don't feel my patches best represents or defines my service, but again, I DO understand how it does for others (for one, I never saw any kind of combat and I don't even recall wearing them while I was enlisted). Finally, I don't think airsofters claim to belong to the unit or squadron patches they wear...I would find it offensive if someone falsifies their service, which I'm sure airsofters don't. Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt-McKenzie Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 VERY HARD QUESTION. What airsoft gun for LRRP impression. - If you are strict and if you are a member of a reenactement association : for the best gun for Vietnam reenactement, don't use airsoft guns. None is right (dimensions, markings, materials, weight. Use deactivated guns. - If you are not strict and just want to play airsoft every week end : M16A1, XM177E1 or XM177E2. Check AR15.com for real steel informations about these details. Once I was playing in complete LRRP impression with my XM177E1 and a guy said "Hey they didn't use M4 in Vietnam!". Anything you do, you're wrong. lol Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 It's not that hard because this is for airsoft so can you can only use what is available which is pretty good as it is. If you used anything other than an airsoft gun then it wouldn't be airsoft. Of course I wouldn't buy a Classic Army XM or M16. Once I was playing in complete LRRP impression with my XM177E1 and a guy said "Hey they didn't use M4 in Vietnam!". So, you told the guy to nick off then, because you were correct. Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt-McKenzie Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 I said "it's not an M4 dude, it's an XM177E1". He said "WHAT?". Anyway. Vietnam players shall not play with modern players. I know we shouldn't mind other people, but still : - they think we're war freaks, and probably nazis, or worse - "Vietnam war? USA lost it !!!" - they think the camo (ie ERDL) is a bad woodland pattern copy. - why do we carry 7,62 belts? fake smoke grenades? backpacks? - "where is MOLLE" - low cap mags?? - they think the Hi Capa is strange in all grey color. - how do you eat a big mac with facial camo - no 3 point sling? etc... Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 I said "it's not an M4 dude, it's an XM177E1". He said "WHAT?". Anyway. Vietnam players shall not play with modern players. I know we shouldn't mind other people, but still : - they think we're war freaks, and probably nazis, or worse - "Vietnam war? USA lost it !!!" - they think the camo (ie ERDL) is a bad woodland pattern copy. - why do we carry 7,62 belts? fake smoke grenades? backpacks? - "where is MOLLE" - low cap mags?? - they think the Hi Capa is strange in all grey color. - how do you eat a big mac with facial camo - no 3 point sling? etc... I don't think you'd get anything like that in the states. Besides, the US wasn't the first western power to loose a war in Vietnam. Link to post Share on other sites
CapaciousZepher Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Ok so I'm basically looking at. - ERDL BDU set - Patches - Chicom Type 64 chest rig - OD Bandana/headband - M16A1 - Low/midcaps - Jungle boots - Perhaps some grenades. Seems fairly cheap and cheerful, but should look the ticket. I could also go with a M1956 belt with a couple of canteens, although the guys in those two pictures don't seem to be wearing belts. I'm guessing that I'd be wanting a 1911 for a side arm, did LRRP often have sidearms? Also what patches am I looking at for LRRP? You guys have been most helpful. Cheers! - CapaciousZepher Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Pjones, Would that be the Japanese your refering to Sgt-McKenzie, You've lost me. Maybe it's the translation. Zepher, I would say less is more. Yeah they probably wore a belt and canteens but on the other hand they probably have most of their secondary kit on their rucksack including canteens so when it hits the fan they can dump the heavy stuff and run with just a weapon and ammo. Don't bother with any insignia as to my knowledge there is nothing official for Lurps in the field and in any case it's pretty much the norm for no identifying insignia in the field. If I saw someone doing an SF impression in ERDL the first thing that would spring to mind is that he is doing Lurp loadout, like Tiger is to Seals. I would say that it would be good to go with either a .45 on a M56 or get a shoulder holster if it doesnt interfere with the chestrig. As you say this is a nice setup since it is relatively easy to achieve. Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Pjones, Would that be the Japanese your refering to And others. Link to post Share on other sites
usmc0621fro Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Um the French lost in a BIG way right before we got there. ERDL was NOT a SF only issued item. Infact most of the grunts in theater were being isued ERDLs in country whn they landed by mid 68. Tiger Stripe was primarily used by ARVN Forces, Rangers, LRRPs, and SEALs. SEALs also commonly wore blue jeans instead of camo pants. Marine Force Recon wore ERDLs or OD Fatigues. Marines weapons were primarily M16s and M14s. Occasionally a senior NCO or officer would have something exotic. Most of the exotic weapons were carried by LRRPs, Rangers, and SEALs. SEALs liked the Stoner M63A1 Commando. LRRPs and Rangers often carried XM177E1 and E2s. M14s were almost entirely phased out by 69. Link to post Share on other sites
Efficency65 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Hey Capacious A bit late in the day but here we are...you were asking for more info about the grunt piccies posted by Tommy... ...the dude in the bandanna with the chicom rig and out there stare - was a 11th Armoured Cavalry ARP before a mission in Michelin '69...the photographer was none other than ....Tim Page...one of the best nam combat photographers along with Don McCullin to come from the UK. This picture appears along with many others in his book titled NAM. ...I think it is safe to say that both pics are of the same guy...but I might be wrong despite some clear similarities in the kit being worn Link to post Share on other sites
CapaciousZepher Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Thanks for the info Efficency. Cheers! - CapaciousZepher Link to post Share on other sites
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