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Stealthbomber

Access to Sales forums...

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I can appreciate the frustration everyone is feeling and I apologise for the lack of notice. We'll reflect on this and try to ensure any future changes give you all more warning (I didn't know myself, I should point out!).

 

In saying that, this was a necessary amendment which was popularly requested and which I fully support. Although this will leave some of you understandably frustrated, it has become necessary due to the reports of rising level of scammers and fraudulent sellers. While it is not viable for us to vet each and every user, some way of refining those with access to posting sales had to occur. This proved the simplest solution.

 

I also see a valid argument made about encouraging spam, which I fully agree with. However I would argue that between encouraging spamming (and being promptly dealt with for this by the moderating team) and encouraging a user to defraud another out of a considerable amount of money, I know which I'd rather have on my conscience.

 

Thanks. :)

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I spend 95% of my time viewing the sales thread when i join. Just by the nature of the sales thread almost everything i do is via pm's. Im sure there must be a better way that this. :(

 

I might add tho, atleast your giving a gentlemen approach with professional responses to queries, unlike ASCUK admins, who i can only assume are a bunch of kids.

 

 

 

 

p.s. Can i get extra 'posts' marks for lickin upto admins? :D

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in for the right to view

 

 

And here's mine :P

 

 

Posting so I can use the forum.

 

 

i wanna see the magic

 

These sort of posts make me want to beat somebodies head against a wall.

 

Are you REALLY trying to tell me that there's nothing, anywhere in these entire forums that you can summon up the gumption to make a useful contribution about?

 

So, instead, you make a mindless post like this?

Well done. :angry::rolleyes:

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Are you REALLY trying to tell me that there's nothing, anywhere in these entire forums that you can summon up the gumption to make a useful contribution about?

 

I can explain why 2 of those posts are meaningless.

 

 

There both Yanks.

 

 

:D

 

j/k

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Don't spam, it'll only lead to suspension. Forgive me if I don't answer any questions straight away, I'm kind of inundated right now.

you say dont spam but what choice do i have if i want to view sale been on this forun for over 2 years now,but this doesnt make any differece,every day i check the sales but not now,i always secrch for stuff rather than ask repeated questions

why cant you have a 3-6 month joing peroid rather than how many posts?

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I agree with you 100%, parpar.

 

By preventing people with <100 posts from viewing the sales sections, I do not believe the reduction of potential scammers is greater than the removal of potential honest transactions. Instead, by using post count as a basis for weeding out bad behavior, I think more honest members, who simply do not have the time or substance to make 100 meaningful posts, will be discouraged from conducting business here on Arnies. Perhaps that's fine for the mods since they'll have less to deal with, but I don't think the community as a whole will benefit as much as it will lose. There are far more lurkers than active members. They may not contribute in terms of accountable posts, but I'm sure many do so by referring others to the great amount of information and resources Arnies has to offer. I am not in favor of the elitist attitude that lurkers and members with low post count are more likely to be dishonest and should thus be less privileged.

 

I think it is important to consider that negative feedback and scams are nearly always reported, and unless the seller specifically asks for it, feedback for honest transactions is dependent on the whim of the buyer and, therefore, many times goes unnoticed. While many scams may be due to sellers and traders of low post count, the majority of my transactions (and many others, I'm sure) are with members with less than 100 posts, and some of my "best buys" were from such members.

 

While I can appreciate the Arnies staff attempting to protect its members, I do not believe this new rule is the way to do so. Frankly, I hope this experiment fails miserably as been the case with many other forums who unsuccessfully attempted post count sales restrictions.

 

Even though they may not be easier, here are some ideas that may be more beneficial:

 

- The staff emphasizes the importance of safer business practices (e.g. exchanging contact information between parties, asking and checking up on references, saving personal records should legal action become necessary, etc.) more emphatically in sales sections and the ads themselves. Make mandatory large and more noticeable font disclaimers at the beginning of the ads that provide information on how best to conduct business more safely over the internet.

- Require members who wish to conduct business in the sales section to have a personal detailed feedback thread. Require the linking of this thread at the beginning of every posted ad or face thread closure.

- Require members to leave feedback or be banned from the sales sections.

 

etc...

 

These methods won't guarantee the absence of scams, but I believe it will make it more difficult to do so while not alienating honest members, whose only offense is a low post count, from conducting business. One can make the argument that Arnies is not a marketplace, but they also should admit that much of the popularity and motivation to revisit Arnies is due to the influence of, what has been up to this point prior to the new rule, a successful outlet for sales.

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Well here goes my attempt at getting my +100 post count recognised and status bumped :D.

 

I'm not a prolific poster to be honest, and like others I tend to spend most of my time in the For Sale sections, simply because I love a bargain. Airsoft forums tend to be third and fourth homes to me, as my main haunt is the AirgunBBS (that used to be my main hobby). I've been adopted as the airsoft expert on there, so even though I might not be posting on here very often, I do contribute to the airsoft community as a whole ;).

 

*sits back patiently awaiting the opportunity to spread the wealth once more...

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My only real problem with it is that people keep saying that its not that hard to come up with meaninful questions and posts on the forums, but honestly, most things have been asked and answered before, so if that type of post is made all that will happen is a backlash of "search noob" posts.

 

Honestly I've not got a huge problem with limiting posting sales to those that have established themselves as "reputable" (as much as having 100 posts does that), but I don't understand the limiting of those of us that want to view the sales forum. I spend much of my time here going through the sales forums looking for deals, or in the picture threads getting ideas for my own replicas.

 

I understand the reasoning, but I'm not a huge fan.

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Even though they may not be easier, here are some ideas that may be more beneficial:

 

- The staff emphasizes...

 

"The staff" already emphasizes that bumping threads isn't allowed. They've emphasised that you must post prices in sales threads and they've emphasized that you cannot post duplicate threads.

 

No one pays the least bit of attention. :angry:

 

Please explain any basis you have for assuming that any attempt by "the staff" to emphasize anything else would be understood any better.

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I'd also agree that 100 post requirement should only be reserved for those who would like to post sales or trades. I sell items myself and many of them were bought by those under 100 posts.

 

The sales thread shouldve received a stickied warning before this rule was enacted. And if this new setup is to continue, i believe that the sales redirection button should contain a "you must have achieve #__ of posts to view this forum"

 

besides..on the "emphasis" on bumping. The more reasonable way to fix that problem is to allow sales starters to edit their thread by removing items or adjusting prices. Many of us who sell items want our items sold..and the only way to is to add a new post.

 

ps: the sales forum now has such limited activity....

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Honestly, all this has done is make a lot of people with> 100 posts start spamming and finding any excuse to post, whether it contributes or not. As a member with a sale thread, I'm not real happy with losing a large amount of buyer potential (anyone want a KJW M700?) and I'm fully aware of the risks of online commerce and I'm prepared to accept that and deal with it.

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"The staff" already emphasizes that bumping threads isn't allowed. They've emphasised that you must post prices in sales threads and they've emphasized that you cannot post duplicate threads.

 

Stickies and closing threads are all well and good but I'm suggesting action beyond that. I know of some forums that enforce a 3 strikes and you're banned from the sales forum rule. Surely that's possible? Will it cut down on repeat offenders? When others start noticing the closure of such threads, I'm sure they will start to get the message. It's not full proof but I think it is more preferable than using post count as a judgment of one's character.

 

No one pays the least bit of attention.  :angry:

 

Bull. Plenty of people pay attention. It's the ones that don't that get noticed. Perhaps more strict action should be levied against those offenders instead of those that didn't commit any crime.

 

Please explain any basis you have for assuming that any attempt by "the staff" to emphasize anything else would be understood any better.

 

Lock threads and ban members when they commit the offense, not before they've done anything wrong. Would it be so difficult to make an annoyingly huge font disclaimer about conducting business more safely? How about some annoying redirections to such information prior to entering the sales forums or ads? And the idea of requiring member feedback to post sales can't be too difficult to implement, can it? See an ad without the feedback link, lockage or ban. A mod or two can go through their respective sales sections once a night to lay down the law. Don't have the man power? I'll help and I'm sure there are other active veteran members who'd be happy to do so.

 

Will all members heed the suggestions in these information threads? Of course not. But that shouldn't mean restrictions must be imposed to those that do follow the rules.

 

While restricting sales of members less than 100 posts may be one of the easiest things to do, it is not the most beneficial method to use IMO. Such action punishes those that haven't committed any crime, promotes spamming, and discourages sales. In the end, I think you are not left with a safer, thriving community, but just a smaller, less friendly one.

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So by encouraging people to contribute to the forum, we're making it less friendly? I still don't get that myself. I know I'm finding it less friendly today (especially last night) as we got criticised by a bunch of people we'd never heard of before, many of whom it turns out have been here for some time but seldom contributed to the community here by actually posting. Sure, a lot of people use this place for information but without those people who take the time to actually post that information then this would be impossible. I'm not saying that the number of posts = helpfulness to the community, but surely you see my point? Encouraging such people to make a contribution surely increases the friendliness as people learn about these members and what they can give to the community, doesn't it?

 

Remember: us mods do this for free, we work hard at it and when an issue gets to be too big a problem for us to deal with constantly a way is sought to deal with it more efficiently. The idea was out out there in this thread, we got positive feedback about it and Arnie decided to action it last night. None of the rest of the staff knew beforehand, and now we get all these complaints about us. Thanks for the support. We'll keep on protecting members, cleaning the place up and being as helpful as we can regardless.

 

I forgot who asked, but: the alternative to spamming is to make useful contributions. Some of the people expressing a negative opinion on this issue have been around for a while, and have hardly any posts. Surely they can provide some useful information to other users or express their opinion on an issue raised in this forum without having to resort to spamming?

 

EDIT: Oh, and I've said it before, but here goes again: All the predictions of a rash of spamming? Not so far. What I have seen is a lot of people who've commented on this issue joining in discussions and providing useful information to other members. Just goes to show, people are smarter and nicer than we sometimes give them credit for.

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Honestly, all this has done is make a lot of people with> 100 posts start spamming and finding any excuse to post, whether it contributes or not. As a member with a sale thread, I'm not real happy with losing a large amount of buyer potential (anyone want a KJW M700?) and I'm fully aware of the risks of online commerce and I'm prepared to accept that and deal with it.

You think we're doing this to protect you?

 

Wrong!

 

We're doing it to prevent people from signing up specifically to sell fake rolexes and stolen mobile phones.

 

Beyond that, it IS likely to reduce the potential for scammers by making it harder for them to gain credibility before attempting to rip somebody off.

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So by encouraging people to contribute to the forum, we're making it less friendly? I still don't get that myself. I know I'm finding it less friendly today (especially last night) as we got criticised by a bunch of people we'd never heard of before, many of whom it turns out have been here for some time but seldom contributed to the community here by actually posting. Sure, a lot of people use this place for information but without those people who take the time to actually post that information then this would be impossible. I'm not saying that the number of posts = helpfulness to the community, but surely you see my point? Encouraging such people to make a contribution surely increases the friendliness as people learn about these members and what they can give to the community, doesn't it?

 

You are not encouraging people to contribute. You are automatically labeling people without 100 posts as dishonest and unworthy to participate in sales. Force them to make 100 posts and suddenly the dishonesty is supposed to go away? I don't think so.

 

Are the people you've heard of the only ones allowed to criticize? Of course you should expect a majority of those affected to be the source of the criticisms. As mentioned before, not every member has the questions, know how, or time to make 100 meaningful posts, especially considering how most topics have been discussed before.

 

And who is to say that the individuals who may have contributed meaningful and helpful information in the past were all people with more than 100 posts? Surely those with <100 posts who might have posted exclusive news details about an anticipated upcoming release, a disassembly guide to a new gearbox, or detailed review of a newly released product has contributed more to the airsoft community than someone with >100 posts who posts primarily in off-topic discussions about their favorite anime or Hasbro toy?

 

I don't see how telling people with <100 posts that they are not welcome to participate in sales is friendly.

 

Remember: us mods do this for free, we work hard at it and when an issue gets to be too big a problem for us to deal with constantly a way is sought to deal with it more efficiently. The idea was out out there in this thread, we got positive feedback about it and Arnie decided to action it last night. None of the rest of the staff knew beforehand, and now we get all these complaints about us. Thanks for the support. We'll keep on protecting members, cleaning the place up and being as helpful as we can regardless.

 

My disagreement with the chosen method for efficient dealing of this big problem is not an attack on the mods. I appreciate the work mods do. However, because those people who disagree now did not make their opinions heard before should not be an excuse to disregard the many criticisms being mentioned now. A lot of us that disagree did not see the previous discussion taking place (having busy lives and all), did not think it would have such a negative impact on sales traffic, or simply disagree now or had done so from the beginning.

 

I forgot who asked, but: the alternative to spamming is to make useful contributions. Some of the people expressing a negative opinion on this issue have been around for a while, and have hardly any posts. Surely they can provide some useful information to other users or express their opinion on an issue raised in this forum without having to resort to spamming?

 

I don't think you can control that. I think as easy as it was to simply prevent people with <100 posts from participating in sales forums, most people find it easier just to spam.

 

You think we're doing this to protect you?

 

Wrong!

 

We're doing it to prevent people from signing up specifically to sell fake rolexes and stolen mobile phones.

 

Then ban those members when they show up instead of punishing those who wish to participate in honest sales.

 

Beyond that, it IS likely to reduce the potential for scammers by making it harder for them to gain credibility before attempting to rip somebody off.

 

As I've mentioned before, there are other ways that are likely to reduce potential scammers that do not automatically label low post count members as dishonest. I just think, along with others, that the current rule does more harm than good.

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Paying for stuff without Paypal (money orders) is also asking for trouble online imo.

 

Moneyorders are by far more secure than Paypal.

 

Like I told you when you bought my old JAC, "If someone *fruitcage*s with you using a money order, then they're also *fruitcage* with the federal goverment."

 

The Feds don't take lightly to mail fraud my friend..

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