Curious sold me a broken ipod!

[pronteer]

i hve got the jiffy bag and it hasnt really been damaged or anything

 

but i really do think extra care should have been taken especially because its an expensive bit of kit

[Samm]

What do you mean by "plastic casing"? Is this extra to the ipod or do you mean the actual ipod itself?

 

 

my job in this transaction is to pay, that is it, it is the sellers job to make sure the item gets to the buyer in working condition.

There aren't any forum rules governing this kind of situation. Unless you can quote a previous court case about it, unsure as to if there's anything as specific as ensuring safe delivery through packaging in UK law.

[pronteer]

i havent read up on it in terms of the law, im just using logic and discussing what is fair and just.

[Samm]

You don't seem to be factoring in what is "fair and just" in regards to Curious. So far you've blamed him with circumstantial evidence and absolutely no proof.

[pronteer]

well, what is fair and just is fair and just for all

 

i am the one who has suffered so far, im £75 out of pocket and i have a useless/broken ipod

 

at the end of the say, the item is to reach the buyer in working order. the sender is responsible for the packaging, thus, Curious is at fault.

 

as for proof, how can i provide you with proof via the internet? you are more than welcome to come and have a look at the ipod for yourself

[Samm]

 

well, what is fair and just is fair and just for all

Please don't attempt to be whimsical it just clouds the subject at hand.

 

You don't have to provide proof to me or anyone else on this forum but Curious. If you decide to take legal action then you will have to do so to a judicial officer.

If Curious gives you the money and you give him a broken iPod, then he's the one suffering. Surely you can't see that as fair?

 

 

the sender is responsible for the packaging, thus, Curious is at fault.

As I said, according to whom but yourself? The forum doesn't dictate this so you will have to find some legality in your claims.

[pronteer]

im not trying to cloud anything, im trying to get right to the point because this has gone on so long, and my time is being wasted, i just want it over

 

i really dont have time for legal action and i really dont think that's going to be necessary anyway

 

"If Curious gives you the money and you give him a broken iPod, then he's the one suffering. Surely you can't see that as fair?"

 

i agree he is suffering, but surely, the one who is to blame is the one that should suffer...so i do believe that it is fair.

 

"As I said, according to whom but yourself? The forum doesn't dictate this so you will have to find some legality in your claims."...according to what is fair and just...

 

if i send an expensive peice of equipment to you and you realise that its not working when you test it for the first time, do oyu really think that you should be responsible for the costs fo rapair?

 

ofcourse not...it is the seller responsibility [in moral law] to make sure the item gets to you in working order

 

if you do not agree with me then what do you think si the best solution, bearing in mind Curious already offered £30 as compensation. if we use my suggestion of himpaying me £50 for repairs and then claiming £34 from RM, then he only loses out on £16, instead of £30 and everyone's happy. i get my working ipod and he gains £14 in comparison to is offer of compensation.

[Samm]

Well in moral law Royal Mail were paid to deliver the item undelivered, the haven't and offer compensation.

 

Now you two need to decide who's fault it is that you didn't insure for the full amount of the item.

 

However the claim of £34 from RM and Curious' offering seems fair to me.

[Curious]

I sent it 2nd class recorded. I dont know what the insurance is on that.

 

Thanks for providing a 3rd party perspective on this Samm.

 

I dont think anyone is particularly at fault, bad timing, coincidence and a whole host pure bad luck have led to this being a little "crazy."

 

Both tempers are frayed too.

 

I really dont have time for RM claims, its a lengthy procedure. I still have the tracking tab and I *think* the reciept. I can send these to you and you can claim yourself. As well as my £30 offer, this brings you up to £64. £50 for repairs, and £14 for time.

 

Other than that, I dont think theres too many other options.

 

I'm also happy for your paypal claim to run its course.

 

Thanks

 

Dom

[Curious]

As a side, I think I found the receipt.

 

Was it a £1.90 postage label?

 

Thanks

 

Dom

[pronteer]

mate, i dont have time to do the RM thing either, and according to others on teh forum, it is for the sender to claim, not the buyer. I'm a final yr student at uni and ive got ther things on too, i really do not have the time at all. that is the main reason i was rlly anoyed at the start, because so much of my time was being wasted.

 

thanks a lot sammm, you've definately calemed the whole situation down!

 

"However the claim of £34 from RM and Curious' offering seems fair to me. "...i'm not sure what sammm means here by "Curious' offering", but i think it means the solution that i suggested is fair.

 

if sammm could confirm that would be great.

[pronteer]

yeh it was £1.90

[Samm]

i'm not sure what sammm means here by "Curious' offering", but i think it means the solution that i suggested is fair.

 

if sammm could confirm that would be great.

I meant the £30 that Curious laid on the table.

[pronteer]

ok but then why should i pay the other £20 out of my own pocket?

[tank423]

you could have broke it yourself!?!

who knows??

[Curious]

Exactly Tank. Thank you.

 

We dont know who broke it, I definately did not break it, and you definately did not break it. Agree?

 

We are essentially paying together to get it fixed, me slightly moreso, but so be it, I did vanish after all.

 

As neither of us are responsible, then we must both take responsibility.

 

Thanks

 

Dom

[tom lawson]

As neither of us are responsible, then we must both take responsibility.

 

 

heh, you've restored a bit of my faith in humanity!

 

 

[bRydeR]

well, what is fair and just is fair and just for all

 

i am the one who has suffered so far, im £75 out of pocket and i have a useless/broken ipod

 

at the end of the say, the item is to reach the buyer in working order. the sender is responsible for the packaging, thus, Curious is at fault.

 

Curious asserts he sent you an iPod that was fine when he send it. You are stating you've received an iPod which is damaged. If we assume you're both telling the truth and it's been damaged in transit. The issue therefore is about who is liable for the damage, what protection exists and what would be a fair and equitable way to resolve it.

 

BEFORE the transaction, Curious had a perfectly fine iPod worth, supposedly, £75 and you still had the £75.

 

AFTER the transaction, Curious has your £75 and you have a damaged iPod worth, supposedly £75 less £50 in repair costs?

 

If we go with either of your suggestions:-

 

REFUND :- Curious will have a damaged iPod he didnt want but is now worth £25 rather than £75, be out of the pocket for postage and you'll have your £75 back.

 

REPAIR:- Curious will have made £25 selling an iPod worth £75 and you'll have a newly repaired iPod worth £75.

 

You'll be fully compensated but Curious will be out of pocket for damage which was actually caused by the Royal Mail. I suspect only one of you would consider this "fair".

 

As the BUYER it is your responsibility to cover the cost of the carriage and to ensure your package is insured in a manner *you* feel is appropriate to the level of risk. Royal Mail recorded delivery is insured for upto £34. Unless you explicitly specified the parcel was to be insured for it's full value then that is the maximum you'll ever get from a claim. It's kinda academic if the Royal mail dropped it, ran over it with a van, played football with it or they handled it with absolute care and were unable to avoid damaging it because Curious packed it with broken glass, metal filings and condoms filled with battery acid - you accepted a method of carriage with only entitles you to £34 in compensation. If you wanted to be covered for the FULL value of the goods or indeed, any value over £34, then it's up to you to verify or insist on insurance.

 

Who should pay you this sum is down it whether Royal Mail damaged it through negligence on their behalf or due to it being inappropriately packed. They offer guidance on how to package items properly (via the website and printed literature). If Curious packaged it in a way which satifies Royal Mails insurance then they'll pay out, if he didn't then won't, it's his fault and I'd suggest his responsibility to cough up the compensation.

 

Finally, Royal Mail consider *you*, the addressee, to be the customer and it's up to you to report damages to them. Couriers tend to operate differently but if you agreed to shipping via Royal Mail you agreed with the Terms that go along with that. The sender can notify of the damage on your behalf but if, as you say, you have no time to deal with it it wouldnt help you anyway as you will still need to be involved in the process to file your own report of the damage and provide them with the packaging for inspection. Either way the process will be more successful if the two of you *co-operate* - if you're blaming each other there's little reason for the Royal Mail to do any differently and accept responsibility.

[Curious]

Well this looks to be getting to be resolved, I just paypalled Pronteer £31, and will be sending him all the relevant stuff for an RM claim. We both seem happy with this agreement.

 

Thanks all,

 

Dom

[pronteer]

got the delivery slip and receipt from curious...many thanks...BUT

 

just noticed one the back of the recorded delivery slip that in the "Value of Item" box, there is a dash, which to me means you are telling RM that the item has no value, meaning I cant claim for anything.

 

So, can you send the £20 that remains that I was was going to get from RM.

 

Thanks

[pronteer]

just confirmed the above with the post office

[Curious]

Thats a load of ###### [Not from you, from RM,] I was never asked of the value of anything in there nor was I told that they would declare it valueless. I assumed that insurance was standard, as in, no extra insurance was purchased, ie, beyond the standard £32 (Or however much it is,) otherwise, why isnt everyone who sends things via normal first class asked to declare value? Yet they can still claim if it gets lost/damaged? Illogical.

 

Theres no such thing as a valueless parcel to RM, thats why they have the basic cover on things sent normal 1st class in the first place. That extends to recorded aswell.

 

Reading the back of the slip it says "We pay compensation for the value of your item [if lost or damaged] up to 100 times the price of a basic weight first class stamp. We do not pay compensation for money, jewelley or other items of value sent recorded."

 

This is down to whether it is an "item of value," which I think RM left a little ambiguous intentionally..

 

Can anyone clarify what exactly the purpose of any claim is for then? Because surely anything of value up to £34 simply cant be claimed, because by definition, it has a value. I'm confused.

 

You are not claiming for the item itself, you are claiming costs for it to be fixed (which is true,) this is what you should tell RM, and they are responsible, claim wise, for that.

 

Dom

 

[pronteer]

i'm going to send the claim through anyway, but if they dont pay up, then im afraid you're going to have to send me the £20 remaining.

 

the lady at the post off ice told me that it is policy to ask about the value, and if there is no value written, then you cant claim. but as mentioned before, i will try anyway.

 

[bRydeR]

The fact remains you accepted a shipment method with a MAXIMUM compensation of £34.

 

If you ever wanted more than £34 you should have insisted and paid for a method of delivery which affords you a level of insurance you find acceptable. As you didnt it could reasonably be argued that, whatever happened, you have already accepted you'll only EVER get £34 back and have written the rest off as an acceptable risk when you completed the transaction.

 

If Royal Mail had simply lost your iPod the most you'd be able to claim is £34. Why is it different because they damaged it and it's repairable?

 

Therefore, as Curious has already sent you £31, his maximum residual liability is £3 if it's determined that he's liable because something he did prevents you claiming from RM.

[Sherlock]

Regardless of what the buyer asks for it is the sellers responsibility to get the goods to the seller as described. Should it require extra cover then the seller should include this in the sale cost. It is the sellers problem. This is the law. You can all theorise but for now the law is as it is. It is in favour of the buyer not the seller. That is why we aren't being scammed every 5 minutes. The law protects us as the buyer.

 

In the event of a claim it is also the person whom sent the item who has to claim. I've just done so myself. Again this is not supposed to be left to the buyer.

 

It's a sad state of afairs when people want to stuff their reputation over such trivial matters.

 

Drop the bloody iPod in the bog and get yourself a new one on your contents insurance.