Intentional headshots? Good or bad?

[Azulsky]

I agree with Snorkelman on this one. We had a few instances of this occuring yesterday while doing ambushes in long grass. Needless to say the ambushees(i was one) learned to keep their heads lower. I can imagine that this can happen at a specific range because of the bb curving up because of the hopup, but Ive never seen it happen. I aim all of my shots aimed at center mass because with airsoft accuracy you are just being dumb aiming for a smaller target unless they are very close.

[Edmiles]

Tis a toughie.. But for me, generally, no. Only as a last resort if you understand that?

 

Although I don't think I'd ever do it close, for me if the head is all you can see, and the distance between you and them is adequet, yes. I've had to make that call a few times before.

 

I distinctly remember one. This fella was sitting in a kind of sandbag pillbox, he just had his head and his gun poking up, my team-mate signals to take him out as I have the clearer shot of us, so I take aim and pop a single shot right into his head area, not quite sure where it hit but it hit and he was alright thank god. I remember just before squeezing the trigger thinking, 'this could go very pear shaped..'

 

Anyhow, he was wearing goggles and the range was 'medium' Unfortunetly due to the majority of people at my site choosing shooting glasses it's not very safe. Speaking of them, I understand that it's all related but let's not let this turn into a rant/arguement about eye protection eh?

[parpar]

Say that to the guy who got a ricochet off his shooting glasses into his eye. He wasn't Mr billy big ###### when he was screaming in pain right next to me. He can no longer drive a car.*

 

Save your sight. Headshots are in the rules. CQB is close, woodland has tons of hot guns, so WEAR FULL FACE!

 

Back on what I said in my first post on this thread, the fun part of it all. Granted that the guy who got the ricochet in his eye was not wearing adequate protection for a CQB site, when he really should have. BUT, I can't imagine that the guy that took the shot had too much fun for the rest of the day, unless of course if he's a sadistic t**t. So, the result of the day was one seriously injured player, one player with (probably) serious guilt issues, and a few rather shocked players (as far as I can imagine at least).

 

That said, here's another very good comment:

 

Or a set of well sealed goggles that wouldn't have let the shot behind in the first place.

 

As a summary, what's been established so far is:

1. Head shots, either intentional or accidental, will happen.

2. Shooting glasses do not offer enough protection in any sort of game area

3. Full face masks are the best option in CQB sort of engagement ranges.

 

So how about this:

1. Woodland/longer minimum engagement sites make sealed goggles a minimum face gear requirement. Anything less and you can't play.

2. CQB/Indoor sites make full face masks a minimum requirement. Again, anything less and you can't play.

 

I don't know about some of the people that have posted so far, but I for one, would have probably been feeling very hesitant about taking a shot (especially a head shot) at anyone after witnessing an incident like that.

 

On top of that, given that the main reasson for having marshals in the first place is to ensure that the game is safe and fun (not just to stop cheating), those who take up that role might want to take some steps to make the sport a tad saffer given the inevitability of head shots, and the pecculiarities of the sites at which they marshall.

 

Edit: Just to avoid confusion. I'm not saying marshalls don't make an effort to keep games safe. I am however saying that minimum protective gear requirements might be a good idea to make airsofting safer, thereby reducing incidents like the one described by Basho, thereby negating the need for threads like this one

[pacino]

All valid and well thought out points Parpar.

I personally don't mind taking them, or dishing them out. I feel completely at home with the fact that I am engaged in a sport that has an element of danger attached- that is to say that I believe I am prepared for this by wearing a full face mask and neck protection.

Those that don't are leaving themselves well open for the kind of wounds that intense CQB and/or milsim could inflict.

By the way, I am neither bloodthirsty, vindictive or sadistic in my games- just aggressive.

[supportgunner]

I will admit that if someone isn't calling their hits repeatedly, and I can see the BBs bouncing off them, I will shoot them in the face. I also have my hopup turned up a little bit high for that extra few feet of range, so if someone happens to be right at my maximum range, they will get hit in the head. However, IMO, intentional headshots are really just pointless, stupid, and dangerous.

[Basho]

Whilst on this topic, I also find it intriguing that you find the face an 'instinctive' area of the body to aim for, Basho.

 

It must be just the way I play then. That or years playing snipers in online gaming CS/TFC/TF2/BF2 etc. When training with targets (I use TAPSS) I always aim for the head (unless I'm testing a gun then I just group).

 

hey, i don't have to make up excuses for never wanting to play at electro anymore!

 

I play at a lot of grounds rob...

 

 

So, I don't lace newbs, overkill or get out of control. I'm happy with the fact that my behaviour is of a high standard, it has to be to be a DA. I dish em out and take em. Welcome to an adults sport.

 

Jesus, compaired to

, airsoft is wimpish!

 

 

 

 

[Xaccers]

It must be just the way I play then. That or years playing snipers in online gaming CS/TFC/TF2/BF2 etc. When training with targets (I use TAPSS) I always aim for the head (unless I'm testing a gun then I just group).

 

You do realise that the people you're shooting in real life are real human beings, who can get injured, bleed and feel pain, not some AI in a computer game?

[GuzziHero]

One question for you, Basho. If you shot someone wearing, say, a shemagh over their mouth and shot their tooth out, would you feel regret? Would you apologise?

 

Same question if they chose to wear eye protection without mouth protection?

[Basho]

One question for you, Basho. If you shot someone wearing, say, a shemagh over their mouth and shot their tooth out, would you feel regret? Would you apologise?

 

Firstly, an appology without regret is not an appology. Of course I would be regretfull and sorry. Secondly, everyone is warned to wear fullface. Everyone. A shemagh doesnt do *beep*.

 

You do realise that the people you're shooting in real life are real human beings, who can get injured, bleed and feel pain, not some AI in a computer game?

 

AI? I play against other people. That aside, of course I do, what a stupid question.

 

I have yet to purposly injure anyone, compare that with injuries from lacings.

[Xaccers]

AI? I play against other people. That aside, of course I do, what a stupid question.

 

I have yet to purposly injure anyone, compare that with injuries from lacings.

 

You're deliberately targetting people's heads rather than their bodies knowing full well it's more likely to cause injury because you do it when playing a computer game?

[nine]

I always aim for the heart or the head, i dont see any problem with it because most people are wearing paintball masks.

[Xaccers]

I always aim for the heart or the head, i dont see any problem with it because most people are wearing paintball masks.

 

What if they're looking away from you?

[stewpidbear]

Unintentional or if it's the only target is acceptable as part of airsoft, intentional headshots for the sake of it is in no way defensible. Its's the type of mind set that puts the whole sport into a bad light. Lacings really have no part in this argument.

[GuzziHero]

I can see your point, Stewpidbear. But like today, I had 2 people on a mid level...I could see they had good head protection (full face, bob caps) and there was no way Id ever be able to see any other parts of their bodies. I took the shots, single fire (no choice with a shotgun!). If theyd had unprotected heads, Id not have fired.

 

Sometimes, Its unavoidable.

[stewpidbear]

I can see your point, Stewpidbear. But like today, I had 2 people on a mid level...I could see they had good head protection (full face, bob caps) and there was no way Id ever be able to see any other parts of their bodies. I took the shots, single fire (no choice with a shotgun!). If theyd had unprotected heads, Id not have fired.

 

Sometimes, Its unavoidable.

 

Totally agree with you mate.

[Dope on a Rope]

 

Ok, here is another slant on it, as a newcomer I was told that full face was if you really wanted it, safety glasses were suitable and sufficient.

 

I've heard others being told the same at more than one shop.

 

So a new guy buys his AEG, safety glasses / goggles, goes out on his first game gets a tooth shot out and is told "You should have worn a full face mask" Not the best introduction to a sport.

 

Comparisons with the relative hardness of a sport to another doesn't seem very relevant to me, I'm sure a 2nd Dan Black belt could do some serious damage, but what relevance does my "hobby is harder than airsoft" really have??

[Basho]

You're deliberately targetting people's heads rather than their bodies knowing full well it's more likely to cause injury because you do it when playing a computer game?

 

Mate don't strawman me. "Injury" as you put it is caused by the not wearing of face protection in a sport where it is fully legal to target the head. End of. My own history and motivation for shooting to the head are essentially completely irrelivent as I have shown clearly in the example I gave as has anyone who is honest in this thread and posted, "Well I 'sometimes', under 'certain circumstances' aim for the head".

 

Not to mention, which I already have, the VERY HIGH chances of accidental head/BB contact.

 

So, frankly, I could give two short *suitcases* for your ###### here.

 

If it was banned I wouldnt do it. If it was against the spirit of the game, I wouldn't do it. It is neither. It is legal and above board. So, if you want to protect yourself from injury wear full face or go play another sport. If on the other hand, you think fullface is not "cool" enough, or doesnt fit in to you wannabe loadout then good luck to you. I presume that you are over 18 and have dental insurance.

 

 

[ChasKi]

I won't take a headshot unless it's all I can see and they're unlikely to move out of that cover (i.e. it's unlikely that i'll get the chance in the near future to take them down by center mass/a limb) for a while. Night ops is also a different matter, if I can't fully determine how you are positioned at the time, it's hard for me to aim away from the head inwhich case it's simply not my fault and you should be abiding by the rules and keeping your protective headwear on *at all times*.

 

Wind etc is also unavidable and just part of the sport... 'that's just the way it is...'

[GuzziHero]

Ok, here is another slant on it, as a newcomer I was told that full face was if you really wanted it, safety glasses were suitable and sufficient.

 

[snip]

 

Now THAT...is a VERY good point. When I got my first gun, I got a special deal introductory pack. Included was a set of Bolle shooting glasses. Why not a facemask, even as an option?

 

Good call, that man.

[BentleyCntlGT]

If you cant deal with being shot in the face with an airsoft gun, you probably shouldnt be playing. I'm not saying I will only shoot at the face, I shoot whatever can get in my sights the fastest. I dont see how this is such a big deal, wear your glasses, play airsoft, and if you get shot in the face it will sting for a second or two....shake it off.

[Xaccers]

Mate don't strawman me. "Injury" as you put it is caused by the not wearing of face protection in a sport where it is fully legal to target the head. End of. My own history and motivation for shooting to the head are essentially completely irrelivent as I have shown clearly in the example I gave as has anyone who is honest in this thread and posted, "Well I 'sometimes', under 'certain circumstances' aim for the head".

 

Not to mention, which I already have, the VERY HIGH chances of accidental head/BB contact.

 

So, frankly, I could give two short *suitcases* for your ###### here.

 

If it was banned I wouldnt do it. If it was against the spirit of the game, I wouldn't do it. It is neither. It is legal and above board. So, if you want to protect yourself from injury wear full face or go play another sport. If on the other hand, you think fullface is not "cool" enough, or doesnt fit in to you wannabe loadout then good luck to you. I presume that you are over 18 and have dental insurance.

 

I never thought the spirit of the game was to intentionally hurt people.

You've clearly stated that you deliberately aim for people's heads even when you have the oppertunity to hit them in less painful areas.

What possible reason for doing that is there other than to want to inflict pain?

Full face is just that, FACE not head, not ears, not neck, not scalp.

 

I choose to wear sufficiently protective glasses knowing that the chances of a head hit are so slim and at such distances as to be acceptable to me.

 

If I poke my head up over a barrier or wall, I know it's likely to get hit, however with people like you around, even if I'm running in the open, you'll go for my head.

You seriously can't see a problem with that?

What if someone was deliberately shooting you in the plums?

It's legal, there's nothing in the rules that say you can't be deliberately spayed there.

Do you play wearing a cricket box?

If I came along and sprayed you in the nads every time I saw you, would you be perfectly ok with that? After all, if you don't play with a box then it's your choice, maybe cricket boxes aren't "cool" for your loadout?

[Xaccers]

If you cant deal with being shot in the face with an airsoft gun, you probably shouldnt be playing. I'm not saying I will only shoot at the face, I shoot whatever can get in my sights the fastest. I dont see how this is such a big deal, wear your glasses, play airsoft, and if you get shot in the face it will sting for a second or two....shake it off.

 

The issue isn't being shot in the face, it's having people deliberately shoot others in the head when other parts of their body are visible or even easier targets.

[Dope on a Rope]

 

Xaccers, good posts, I second.

 

 

[Rob15]

I never thought the spirit of the game was to intentionally hurt people.

You've clearly stated that you deliberately aim for people's heads even when you have the oppertunity to hit them in less painful areas.

What possible reason for doing that is there other than to want to inflict pain?

Full face is just that, FACE not head, not ears, not neck, not scalp.

Absolutely dead on.

 

Everyone seems to accept that hits to the head will happen at some time, but it seems very few accept some *beep* going around headshotting on purpose is the spirit of the game.

 

Would you please make a list of sites that you play at so i know where not to go Basho, i'd rather not have the displeasure of playing against someone like you, ever.

 

EDIT : silly mistakes >_<

[DecimusKrieg]

Jesus, compaired to

, airsoft is wimpish!

 

That's true*, though I don't go to airsoft to either intentionally hurt or to get hurt. I don't go to test mine or anyone else's pain threshold, but people can and very occasionally do get hurt. There is the risk, but it's certainly not an essential part of the sport. When I spar however, I expect that I can get hurt, and that it is my objective to defeat the opponent which inevitably will lead them to get hurt.

 

The two sports are worlds apart and for most, airsoft is simply a hobby, and injury shouldn't be a major concern. If you wanna prove you're not a 'wimp' that's fine, but airsofting, as I'm sure you're aware isn't really the best place to do it, whereas something like Goju-Ryu is (though if that's a person's only reason for doing the sport, I'd suggest they pack up and take up fighting in pubs with other numbskulls NOT saying that is your reasoning).

 

Furthermore Basho, I do agree with it being compulsory to wear full face protection (perhaps more so in CQB), but I think we both know, that for the majority of sites this will not happen. People would prefer to wear more 'loadout friendly' glasses, and it is ultimately their choice. I don't agree that it's a good decision, as I prefer a welt-free face , but I also respect their right to choose to do so and consequently avoid head shots on those people as much as possible.

 

Cheers now,

Decimus.

 

*though Goju-Ryu is arguably wimpish compared to certain styles of Ninjutsu, but that's not for here