Overzealous Thread Locking

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but...

 

I've noticed over the past month or two that the mods seem to have gone nuts for locking posts where someone so much as mentions a +1J gun, I have read the site rules, so I understand why over 1J discussion isn't allowed (although I totally disagree) but why on earth can't the mods just continue what they used to do pre-VCRA, which was post in the topic to inform the OP, and give him the chance to edit his post to within forum limits?

 

If they refuse to edit the post then I can totally understand locking them, but for f**k's sake give them the chance to change it first, I mean, there have been a few occasions that I've noticed when someone has been asking two questions in the same topic, one was about upgrading over 1J and the other was perfectly legitimate, and the thread has been locked, stopping anyone from answering the legit question.

Before anyone says "he could just post the second question again", he isn't likely to, he's likely to go to another forum, where the mods don't behave like Victorian schoolteachers, depriving us all of whatever experience he may have.

 

I don't know if it's a reaction to the VCRA or not, but the timing seems awfully suspect, and I recall many posters, mods included, complaining about knee-jerk reactions by HMG to various events, seems to me that this rather draconian measure is precisely the same thing that they accused the VCRA of being.

 

[Pablo]

Can you give me some examples? Could be they're being closed by new moderators appointed since the VCRA, as there's certainly no organised effort to stamp on +328fps discussion any more than before - in fact, we're discussing dropping it. You will probably have noticed that there are more mods around - and thank crikey too, it was getting lonely at times.

 

Personally, I can't recall locking one with other questions in it (though I apologise if I have), nor can I recall ever asking people to edit their thread rather than closing it (guilty as charged, I'm a bit of a locker me).

 

Sorry, no conspiracy here (though that's just what a Victorian Schoolteacher WOULD say, isn't it?)

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

There's one on page 2 of tech discussion where a guy is asking about motors for his already upgraded over 1J rifle, and the thread was locked before anyone had the chance to address his ROF question, perhaps the rules have changed, but I thought it was upgrading over 1J that we couldn't instruct someone how to do, but that we could discuss any other aspect of an upgraded gun, like the ROF.

 

Not accusing a conspiracy, I'm just saying that some people may be jittery since the new law, or perhaps more resentful than usual towards our non-UK members.

 

It's just something that I've found a bit annoying lately, especially when new members are falling foul of it.

 

Cheers for your reply, and I sincerely hope you do drop the 1J rule, as there's no legal reason for it, and it places an unnecessary restriction on how much use this forum is to non-UK members.

[Marlowe]

This has been subject to a lot of discussion recently, and I have been one of the moderators pushing for the 1 Joule limit to be enforced a bit less rigidly, considering our international brethren, and our move to recognise that at the end of the day users are grown ups and take matters into their own hands should they wish to use 'illegal' (complete with twitching hand gestures there) velocities in their kit.

 

I am pleased to confirm that we will in the near future be moving officially away from enforcing such rules so rigidly following an upcoming rule change. Further to this, you will notice many moderators are now no longer as rigidly enforcing this rule in this transition period.

 

However, that said, please note that for the time being this will remain the rule until Arnie changes them, and as a result any transgressions should officially still be closed. This has always been the way things have been run here in the four years plus that I have been active on Arnies, and so it's hardly a shift in policy or personal behaviour. Even if the newer mods are 'zealously' enforcing the rules, they are doing so ultimately as that is our role and because as anyone who has ever had to enforce an organisation's rules will tell you (whether police, or civilian business, etc), there will always be a slight grey area where more experienced 'enforcers' recognise flaws in the rules and turn a blind eye to things that technically they shouldn't.

 

So to sum up: a shift in policy is coming, but any 'recent' shift towards a more draconian policy is, as far as I can see, a fallacy.

[Pablo]

...and there's certainly no resentment about non-UK members not having to put up with the VCRA, hardly their fault is it?

[Stealthbomber]

Time was when any mention of an MXXX spring or anything over the magic 328 would result in thread closures.

 

I reckon most of the mod's here are pretty lenient about >1J stuff. Take a look at the sniper forum. You think that would exist if a >1J ban was rigidly in place?

 

The two outstanding items are discussion of how to modify a gun to fire above 1J and, (unfortunately IMO) sales of guns >1J.

I must admit, it saddens me to have to close threads when people are selling guns such as the Warrior L96 but, unfortunately, that's the way the mop flops.

Hopefully it'll change for the better soon.

[Pablo]

I'm glad this came up now, I quite like the new avatar.

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

Well judging from the responses to this thread I think that the locked posts that I saw were the exception, rather than the rule, so sorry for jumping the gun on that one, and yeah, I did wonder about the sniper forum!

 

Not wanting to drag this out too much, but couldn't there be some kind of disclaimer that all members have to acknowledge, saying that advice on upgrading over 1J is allowed, but that the forum is in no way responsible for an individual's choices, and that if they upgrade over their national limit then it's their lookout because the forum did not condone anything, but was merely providing information.

 

Perhaps this disclaimer could be placed before the category screen, requiring users to click "I agree" before they proceed to the main forum (I have no idea how much work it'd be, it's just a suggestion)

 

Thanks for the responses anyway guys.

 

Edit: Typo

Edited November 1, 2007 by balberoth-the-destroyer

[Pablo]

Yep, that's pretty much what we're thinking.

[snorkelman]

well can we expect to see the rules on discussing semi auto to full auto conversions and making of silencers (rather than just fake silencer looking objects) ditched too?

 

Neither is relevant to UK folks so I fail to see why those should remain if the 1joule rule is being removed and use of real steel parts like the bren project havent drawn any lockages (both of which do at least have a certain amount of UK relevance)

[Stealthbomber]

regarding semi to full-auto conversions, about the only times I've seen this crop up it's been somebody from a country where f/a is banned who's asking.

Honestly, I can't think of a reason why anybody who was entitled to buy an f/a gun would end up with a semi-only one.

 

About the only time I've seen this come up is when people have asked if it'd be possible to convert a PSG1 to f/a.

Those threads usually snuff it after a range of "you'd be nuts to do it" and "It's not really possible" replies rather than getting closed for telling people how to do the work.

 

As for silencers, I've seen many threads asking how to replace the foam inside the tube and none have been closed.

[TwinTurboCH]

This isn't really related to this specific topic, but more to the mods reactions to it.

 

I have to say, this place makes me proud.

 

When I first got back into Airsoft, I frequented a certain other forum which is slightly more obvious when hunting the likes of google for 'airsoft'. If this thread had appeared on said other site, it would have had three or four replies from mods stating things like 'wind your neck in boy' and 'this is our place, if you don't like it, *fruitcage* off' and then would have been promptly locked.

 

In here, you guys actually listen to what the users have to say and it makes for a much friendlier atmosphere.

 

Arnie's FTW

[Marlowe]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. It's nice to know some people prefer our approach.

 

Snorkelman: to be honest as Stealth said I haven't really seen many such conversion posts for a long time, and the ones I can recall were either because they were German players seeking to illegally modify their weapons or threads which spiralled out of control and descended into 'why bother?' replies. Because of this it hadn't even occurred to me to address this issue.

 

However now that I am aware, I do agree that if we are taking an approach in regards to velocities, we really should undertake the same response for this. I also agree that a disclaimer would a good idea for new memebers, although we will from a legal stand point probably need to incorporate one into our rules also.

 

Cheers.

 

[bRydeR]

I've seen no evidence of overzealous moderation here. I'd even say the rules have relaxed a little in the couple of years I've been here.

 

It's good to hear the mods are looking at changing the rules for "hot" guns, especially as there are so many Chinese clones available commercially in the UK that exceed forum limits, but the only time I've seen the rule applied is when someone is quite clearly discussing upgrading a gun beyond the limits; I've seen a number of discussions about working with guns already over the limit that have been unhindered.

 

The mods are only human (well, some of them maybe ) so there's going to be some level of "interpretation" of the rules and they'll make the occassional mistake or decision the readers/posters might not agree with but I'd go as far as to say that Arnies is probably the most relaxed and has the least heavy-handed moderation of the few useful Airsoft forums on the 'net

[Pablo]

I would just like to state that no money, goods or services have been harmed in the making of this thread

[pistonhead]

Hey steath bomber how long have you been a mod for last i was here you were just a poster. Lucky lucky...

[Connery]

...Last you were here was two days ago...

[BenjaminRombough]

well can we expect to see the rules on discussing semi auto to full auto conversions and making of silencers (rather than just fake silencer looking objects) ditched too?

 

Neither is relevant to UK folks so I fail to see why those should remain if the 1joule rule is being removed and use of real steel parts like the bren project havent drawn any lockages (both of which do at least have a certain amount of UK relevance)

 

One thought on the above idea for UK members. Any Semi auto weapon firing over 375fps that you convert to full auto and by full auto i mean by firing 2 or more rounds with the same trigger squeeze (just before i get anyone asking about 3 round burst etc) is a section 5 fire arm and illegal.

[Marlowe]

One thought on the above idea for UK members. Any Semi auto weapon firing over 375fps that you convert to full auto and by full auto i mean by firing 2 or more rounds with the same trigger squeeze (just before i get anyone asking about 3 round burst etc) is a section 5 fire arm and illegal.

 

Under future rules it will be the legal responsibility of the individual to ensure that they are complying with the legislation within their region. This is to better reflect the fact that Arnies is now a truly global community.

[snorkelman]

hasnt this thread been overzealouly locked yet?

[cafemondo]

Nope, no ones mentioned poop or wooden sights yet

 

Note to self, remember some overseas members have difficulty unerstdanding humour/irony/sarcasm when posting.