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I dont usually follow the typical trend of what people consider first line. An accurate first line would be kept in pockets as gear has always been designed so it can be ditched systematically till all you have left is what you need to survive, which is what your first line is traditionally supposed to comprise of. From a viewpoint of Vietnam era stuff(which i know most about), the First line was stowed in pockets as back then they had special vests with numerous pockets for emergency radios, signal equipment, last ditch weapons(which could include a pistol), blood *chaffinch*, etc. From what i understand about the line system you have first line(survival), second(fighting), third line(extended). its made so you can ditch the third(rucksack), second(belt kit, plate carrier, chest rig), and that you can reduce to just the 1st line, which is the base essential survival tools you need to live, once you are relying on the 1st line you have selected flight instead of fight and you are trying to escape and evade.

 

So basically from what i figure is that these extended belt kits run in conjuction with plate carriers and/or chest rigs comprise 2nd line gear in some in some instances(think MARSOC with extended ammo capacity on the subloads, etc) and sometimes is intermixed with 1st line(FAK, knife, signal kit). Of course to say anything in the military is so strickly defined as what i just said is folly because troops have to adapt to various scenarios so things change.

 

Constructing a Modern 1st line on the belt most important is survival gear, and move all the extended 2nd line to the subloads so they can be ditched at the same time as the main web gear. The most i would want to carry in the minimalist setup would be a pistol, 2 max magazines(can be mounted on belt or shroud in case of some holsters), FAK, and Signal Kit, perhaps knife but just a folder.

Edited by Azulsky
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Azulsky, I agree with you for the most part, but I'd much rather have a good fixed blade(I.E not a KA-BAR), and a folder, since a folder has far to short of a blade and isn't near as strong for pounding, cutting brush, and splitting wood. But, a intermediate sized folder is better for doing more prescise work, like medical work, preparing small game for food, etc.

 

Fatal, IMO, I'd much prefer boiling to water purification tablets, but again, that's just me.

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Azulsky, I agree with you for the most part, but I'd much rather have a good fixed blade(I.E not a KA-BAR), and a folder, since a folder has far to short of a blade and isn't near as strong for pounding, cutting brush, and splitting wood. But, a intermediate sized folder is better for doing more prescise work, like medical work, preparing small game for food, etc.

 

Fatal, IMO, I'd much prefer boiling to water purification tablets, but again, that's just me.

In my survival training, we used the larger fixed-blade knives (similar to KBAR) for the heavy work, such as making kindling, dressing game, making the fire/shelter, etc. I used a Leatherman for the smaller work, such as cutting para cord, eating the game, harvesting edible plants, etc.

 

Tablets arn't bad, and I'd rather use them in conjunction to boiling. But sometimes you can't boil, but you can drop tabs in a canteen.

 

Here is a good source for line gear.

http://www.32ndff.net/32fflinegear.html

 

Of course, tailor everything to the mission.

Edited by Kraut
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A first line is supposed to be more like "life support" than "the stuff that didn't fit on my vest". Since the first line is supposed to be the last to go, it should be relatively small, and only have the essentials (E&E, maybe an IFAK) to start with, a few additional things like a holster, dump pouch are OK too, but not your entire stash of rifle mags, etc.

A belt kit is whatever you want it to be, anything carried on your belt, be it 10 mags, or the Taj Mahal.

 

As I have been trained 1st line is belt kit and the the "Life support" is in your E&E kit.

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I've got to agree with everyone else here, the mags will work alot better on the other side so your not reaching across your front to get to them. As for the knife, if you like it there then keep it but on a practical point of veiw your reaching across yourself again to hold it right handed. Can you attach it to the serpa rig as it would look pretty good there and be easier to grab right handed.

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Can you guys take pics of you actually wearing your lines? I'm becoming more and more interested in creating a belt rig to run with my p90, but I haven't seen many pictures of people actually wearing them. As a side note, I'm a noob in this area, but when I hear "belt" in molle belt, I immediately imagine it going through the belt loops on pants. That doesn't seem to be the case. Do you just wear these things on your waist, not really tied down to your clothes? How do you keep them from riding up to your stomach and what not?

Edited by Onikage01
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A MOLLE belt isn't there to hold up your pants :)

 

Most load bearing belts (they're not all MOLLE) can be used alone, but suspenders can also be used. If it's a heavy belt it can sometimes chafe my hips, but I haven't felt the need to use suspenders yet.

I've never had any problems with the belt moving around though. My current belt is a shaped belt, so it resists rotating by itself, but my older straight belt didn't move much either. Unless you do a lot of cartwheeling the belt shouldn't ride up on your stomach.

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I decided to go outside and take some First Line pics.

 

This is really a Combination of First Line + DMR Essensitals.

 

I will be adding a GP pouch on the back left to hold a few medical supplies and just general stuff.

 

IMG_0738.jpg

IMG_0739.jpg

 

Kitlist:

 

Blackwater IO Belt

HSGI Suspenders

2x Noveske 12 oz hydration carriers (Which happen to fit 2 Vietnam size m16 mags in each pouch)

Dump Pouch

Small Radio Carrier

Serpa Holster for 1911 w/ Molle adapter.

 

 

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A MOLLE belt isn't there to hold up your pants :)

 

Most load bearing belts (they're not all MOLLE) can be used alone, but suspenders can also be used. If it's a heavy belt it can sometimes chafe my hips, but I haven't felt the need to use suspenders yet.

I've never had any problems with the belt moving around though. My current belt is a shaped belt, so it resists rotating by itself, but my older straight belt didn't move much either. Unless you do a lot of cartwheeling the belt shouldn't ride up on your stomach.

 

I figured that. I've been looking at belts lately and there are so many. It doesn't seem like you really need MOLLE though. I mean, even a MOLLE pouch could potentially strap to a regular duty belt as some of the posted rigs show. I have a standard 5.11 duty belt and it seems like as long as something had loops they can be attached to it. What's the true advantage of the MOLLE when it comes to these belts?

Edited by Onikage01
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It's true that a molle pouch can be attached to any belt, but it's not ideal. The thinner the belt, the more the pouch will flop around. I used to use an old surplus non-molle load bearing belt (swedish 304k) with molle pouches and holsters, and it worked reasonably well, but unless i tied the pouches down with string through the grommets (it wasn't visible, but still) they tended to slip around a bit.

Also, if you have velcro lids they can be difficult to open on a thin belt, as the pouch may tend to rotate around the belt instead of open.

 

This all depends on what pouches you intend to use though, smaller pouches like pistol mag pouches, holsters etc work well on a regular belt, and are indeed often available designed for that purpose. Obviously the police use these a lot.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here is the OCONUS setup (except for the extra med supplies and knife i carry on my person)... Im still wanting to pick up a TT E&E pouch for a few necessities i would like to keep on hand

 

Pic43214040.jpg

 

 

And while here CONUS (while working i use the mag/cuff pouch shown in the last pic)

 

SDC10143-2.jpg

 

Pic43214003-1.jpg

 

In certain situations where more retention is favorable i use a Safariland SLS paddle but then i lose the ability to keep my light/laser mounted

 

Pic43214004-2.jpg

 

 

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