Sniper Guide By An AEG User.

[Trasher]

The short ranges make no difference at all, the ghillie is not a invisibility field, its primary purpose is to break up your outline thus making it harder for the human eye to distinguish you from your surroundings. Theres been many occasions that people have literally walked a couple of metres past me in open fields.

Human eye registers movement before anything else. It happened many times that a whole squad walked by a single guy (wearing regular BDU, or in one case blue denim pants and a shirt ) standing perfectly still in the woods, or lying on a grassy field... The ghillie helps, but making less sound and not getting hopelessly stuck when low crawling, better hearing, better moveability, and not leaving "ghillie trail" and ghillie scraps behind is not bad either.

 

Wearing a carefully selected BDU pattern for the terrain/foliage (with matching gloves and full face camo!) instead of a ghillie suit is not a bad trade off in airsoft.

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

Actually, if I remember correctly, the 5S thing is not fieldcraft generally, it's specific to why things are seen, and the fifth is not sound, it is shade, although it's been a while since I did fieldcraft refresher training, so it may be a different name.

I agree with the above post, a ghillie suit is not a substitute for decent fieldcraft at all, and decent fieldcraft + jeans is better than ghillie suit + cluelessness! I am saying that if you are using your fieldcraft correctly then a ghille suit has more cons than pros.

Such as (as above) not getting stuck in stuff (it's better to be able to move without taking the entire bush with you!)

 

I'll concede that you might get a small advantage if you're lying still for a long time, have covered yourself in local foliage that matches your particular hiding place, and your ghillie suit is particularly well made, but seriously, how many airsoft snipers can fulfill even one of those criteria?

 

Yes, ghillie suits can work, but they only have a specific advantage at long ranges, at airsoft ranges you have no advantage over a DPM wearer as long as you do not do silly things that give you away, I just don't think that the minute advantage justifies the movement penalty, the weight penalty, the sound penalty or the PITA factor of making the thing.

 

As for being a marksman, if you read the entirety of my guide you will realise that it has nothing whatsoever to do with being a DM, none of the tactics are applicable for a DM, and a bolt-action isn't even very good for a DM.

 

I'm sorry to be a little blunt, but this seems to be a little bit of "if u dont have ghillie then u iz n00bzzzorzzzz DM, not elite deltasealsassbsspetznazgsg9sfsupermen like me and my buddies", no offense meant, but it does come across like that.

[Staceh]

LoL be as blunt as you like mate, it'll take a lot more than arguing on the intarweb to upset me.

 

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this, as a ghillie user i find mine invalueable and I'll not take my boltie out in the field without it.

If your ghillie is well enough made, theres no PITA factor to moving around in it, i must admit i only use a top half and leave my legs free from obstructions. I find the biggest factor in movement is the amount of kit your carrying, keep it minimal for speed.

 

 

I'm on the left, I'll get some better pictures after xmas of the kit I'm wearing but as you can see its pretty minimal, and i can happily move faster than your average CIRAS wearing aeg users.

 

I'll say it again, if your spotting snipers because of their ghillie at your local, your snipers need some tuition in the basics.

 

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

I was a little bit tired and grumpy when I wrote that, so it didn't come out exactly as I intended!

 

I'll agree about the CIRAS wearing bit, I only wear DPM and 2 mag pouches, and it does strike me that all that webbing must be pretty cumbersome, just covering on your top half is probably the best compromise for airsoft anyway, plenty of times I've been traveling with a sniper who has got himself stuck in a bush and needed help to get out!

 

I'm not sure that my spotting them is down to their deficiencies, it's more because full ghillies always seem to be the same sort of shape, and the plastic bits of cam net are a dead giveaway if you know to look for them, it's a subtle thing, but I look for bits of green or brown that look like they shouldn't be there and once I see that I look for an area of different texture that's the same shape as a ghillie, not long afterwards I usually either see movement or a bit of a face!

Even if you cover yourself in leaves it's very hard to eliminate that visible texture change that I use to spot them.

 

Liking the camo pattern gloves, they're a good idea.

[Staceh]

Realtree neoprene gloves, superb bit of kit, the forefingers and thumbs fold back for easier access to stuff.

I usully have a neoprene mask on as well, thats been covered in cam stuff, my 'bugs eye' goggles are also green, so my face is pretty hard to spot.

 

I should be able to get some photo's of the kit in the next few days, you'll see what i mean about cheapo ghillie then, and lightweight kit.

 

[The Bushman]

The problem with most Airsoft snipers and ghillies suits, is the fact they forget that the ghillie is purely a base to put local camoflague onto (ie foliage). Most appear to not want to waste 30 mins of the game caming up. That is why they fail and you think that ghillie suits are not worth having. Without the extra foliage, it will stick out and give you away unless in exactly the correct place. If it is properly dressed then you can stop almost anywhere and get mistaken for the forest .

 

I advocate using just basic clothing or a ghillie. Both have strengths and weaknesses. In short, the ghillie only gives you an advantage if you are stationary (while being observed) while using basic combat clothing gives you the edge in stealth (ie moving silently). Match the kit to the game, for a start, at least. If its a 30 minute firefight, then forget the ghillie. The longer the game, the more need for a ghillie.

 

You discuss the ghillie as something only bolt actions have and AEG users don't. What people should realise is that the most effective player on a "skirmish" field is a guy in a ghillie who uses an AEG and can switch between the world of "sniper" or "assaulter" in a heartbeat. If he is real good and an oppertunist, he can get the best tally on most days.

 

Good Hunting + Merry Christmas

[The_Racer]

My 2 cents here...

 

About the ghillie ,

get a Ghillie suit based on rope , use a shitload of different colours to match the area you play in...

All the fine threads of the ghillie suit will pick up the vegatation as you lie down / get "stuck" in a bush...

 

Use a ghillie where the ropes ore knotted on a netting , where you can use climbing clamps (dont know the right word) , and use some magpul cover to clip 'em on...

as soon as you pic your spot , take em off and put them in front of you , so you can reload really fast when needed to....

 

Use a claymore ,

I use a radio controlled claymore , put it 3-5 meters in front or on an open side of you , and leave the remote within hands-reach...

So , when someone gets Close to you , and close to the claymore , use it!!!

but still don't move!!!

 

When playing in a forrest site ,

take a vegetation cutters (you know , that thing your mother uses to cut roses)

so you can get rid of a piece of vegetation wich is in your line of view...

 

Paint your face!!!

Nothing more funny than wearing a ghillie suit with an albino face sticking through it...

 

Camo your rifle ,

not painting , use the strings leftovers and knot them on an elastic rubber and swing around front side of the rifle and back araound the scope mount...

this is done in 5 minutes and covers the complete rifle!!!

If the base colour is pink , this will easily cover everything...

 

Minimize your load out (the lighter your gear , the easier and more versitile you wil be)...

If your using an AEG , get 1 High-cap , maybe 2...

Bolt action , 1/2 mag('s) , and 2-3 speedloaders...

 

use 1 back up , just when your spotted and fired uppon ,

just aim at their direction , and fire...

they will duck down or freeze for a brief second ,

USE THAT SECOND AND RUN AWAY TO YOUR TEAM!!!

 

 

One last thing ,

get a spotter with an AEG ,

this really opens up your oppertunities...

get him to stick 5 meters behind your a** and keep radio contact...

 

My 2 cents ,

Greetings from belgium and merry christmas!!!

 

 

 

[Zmarre]

get a Ghillie suit based on rope , use a shitload of different colours to match the area you play in...

 

Rope? You mean jute/burlap?

 

where you can use climbing clamps (dont know the right word)

 

Carabiners?

 

and use some magpul cover to clip 'em on...

 

Magpul cover? The thing you put on a RIS/RAS rail? oO

 

as soon as you pic your spot , take em off and put them in front of you , so you can reload really fast when needed to....

 

May I recommend putting your mags in front of you instead of your ghillie...

 

take a vegetation cutters (you know , that thing your mother uses to cut roses)

 

I would advice a nice folding knife. I once fell with such a garden scissors in my pants, and the point of the blades sliced about an inch into my leg ^^

 

But I agree with your other points

[Staceh]

I must admit i always carry a folding knife with a lockable blade over a pair of secatuers, i dont like having sharp pointy things in my pouches/pockets when I'm playing, even my car keys stay in the safe zone!

[angelmaker]

The guy that wrote this obviously isn't a sniper at all from those tactics and logic you would be lucky to even be considered a DM!

[Staceh]

Care to be a little more specific? Its a discussion forum after all

[Swerve]

I've been ten feet away from Stace and I couldn't see him, he was even on my team! I could only locate him by the "phtt" of his rifle.

 

and I dont miss much, usually.

 

I've got to the point at my local field where I have begun to memorise the foliage in certain areas, so that I can pick out a bunch of growing stuff from one of the guys in a well prepared ghillie.

 

They work when done properly and the guy wearing it knows what he is doing.

[Stealthbomber]

The guy that wrote this obviously isn't a sniper at all from those tactics and logic you would be lucky to even be considered a DM!

As has already been said, if you have information to give then let's have it.

Alternatively, zip it.

 

This community is not the place for arrogant elitism.

 

On the topic of Ghillie suits, the problem is that the average airsoft game moves too fast for a sniper to take up a hidden position and make a difference to the game by making use of a Ghillie suit. In most situations I find that the role of a sniper tend to actually be as an advance force due to their superior range. For that role a Ghillie suit isnt required.

 

I agree that, in theory, a fully Ghillied-up sniper could run with an assault force and, as soon as they engage, hit the dirt and start sniping. This might be successful as long as the sniper was smart enough to stay close enough to the assault force to follow the game but far enough away to avoid being spotted by the opfor.

 

Anyway, basically the point is that making use of a Ghillie suit for the same purposes as a real-steel sniper is a bit self-indulgent for an airsoft sniper. It won't do much for the team.

If you can make use of a Ghillie suit to assist with sniping in a fast-moving airsoft game then go for it. Otherwise a Ghillie suit isn't required.

 

Having said that, of course, how useful are the delta/ranger/PJ loadouts that you average geardo minces around in?

What's wrong with a sniper wearing a Ghillie simply cos it looks cool and fits their loadout in the same way?

Let's face it, 70% of the stuff we field could probably be binned without much detriment to performance.

[angelmaker]

No I'm saying running around in bdus and using a AEG and waiting on a enemy isn't what I would call sniping is all to each is his own though.

[Swerve]

Stealth

 

Get to Gunman at Tuddenham, the resident snipers there, Stace for one, would prove you wrong. They have fast moving games, and the snipers can be a real pain.

 

Without the ghillie I would see them sooner, as a couple of the other snipers do not wear them, and they are less of a threat

 

I think you are over generalising a tad, but I see your point.

[The Bushman]

Carry as little as possible to have the least encumberence and aid in all aspects of movement and fatigue. That is why Geardo's are at a disadvantage compared to a practical player. I suggest 99% of equipment is not required in a game. A ghillie is a practical item and in the 1% of equipment worth bothering with (if you are a bolty or AEG player).

 

If you have a bolt action and end up within AEG range, unless you are not spotted, you are probably toast or pinned. The BEST way to get round such problems is to not be seen at all. Therefore in my experience, a ghillie suit amplifies my sneaky game style and gives me the edge (and confidence) I often need.

 

These days I play with all ghillied opponents and gameplay is very different from a typical skirmish. Far more oppertunities reveal themselves where a ghillie is an aid. Yet, even when I used to tackle teams of AEG's with my sporter, I would rate a ghillie as essential. If you are good/disciplined you will evade once spotted. The ghillie gives you more chance to not have to spend all day evading and repositioning without having chance to fire.

 

I find that the entire notion of Airsoft "snipers" is so contradictory to how a real world "snipers" operate, that I think many newcomers are expecting far too much, from the reality of the sport.

 

If you are a ghillied bolt action player who finds they get spotted most of the time (before firing), then I suggest you are correct to consider bining the ghillie and going for a more run and gun mentality.

 

The real skills in this game and that make a good bolt action player (no matter who your opponent or terrain involved) is the ability to predict opponents movements and reactions to tactical situations. Once you are good at prediction, you will have more idea which areas you can move rapidly over (safely) and which areas you should be stationary or take your time moving over. All this combined means you get the full use of your ghillies concealment without having to just lay in 1 place all day and still mangaing to avoid being seen.

 

As always, it is important to state that your choices and actions will get you results not your equipment. Being a good bolt action player is all about outwitting your adversary. Out think him by trying to put yourself in his situation. Aim to leave unseen and leave him worried he is in your sights. Aim to flank quicker than he expects and therefore get into an area he has ruled out. Aim to not get stuck down in an exchange unless at long range.

 

As long as you get the fear of being spotted/full auto'd then you can get the adrenaline that you need to give you that edge over a more casual/confident opponent. To aid in this fear, you should not carry an AEG as a backup and should limit yourself to a pistol (or no backup at all). Obviously this all depends on length of game and size of area used, but my advice to a someone swapping over from AEG to bolt action is to have no backup. This means you are even more in the **** and hopefully that will keep you focussed on your task of playing with a bolt action. Having no backup, means you are far more concerned about getting close and will do your best to hit and fade (or just fade if spotted). With much of a modern Airsoft "snipers" firepower removed, his task is far more clear in his head and he won't get confused from his change over from being an assault player. Hopefully this will make him realise keeping opponents at range is important and not to rely on firepower.

 

Putting yourself in such situations will encourage the necessary skills faster, that are most favourable to become a feared Airsoft "sniper".

 

Good Hunting

[Staceh]

Thankyou Bushman, some good solid advice/points there

 

[TheBauer]

Actually, if I remember correctly, the 5S thing is not fieldcraft generally, it's specific to why things are seen, and the fifth is not sound, it is shade, although it's been a while since I did fieldcraft refresher training, so it may be a different name.

I agree with the above post, a ghillie suit is not a substitute for decent fieldcraft at all, and decent fieldcraft + jeans is better than ghillie suit + cluelessness! I am saying that if you are using your fieldcraft correctly then a ghille suit has more cons than pros.

Such as (as above) not getting stuck in stuff (it's better to be able to move without taking the entire bush with you!)

 

I'll concede that you might get a small advantage if you're lying still for a long time, have covered yourself in local foliage that matches your particular hiding place, and your ghillie suit is particularly well made, but seriously, how many airsoft snipers can fulfill even one of those criteria?

 

Yes, ghillie suits can work, but they only have a specific advantage at long ranges, at airsoft ranges you have no advantage over a DPM wearer as long as you do not do silly things that give you away, I just don't think that the minute advantage justifies the movement penalty, the weight penalty, the sound penalty or the PITA factor of making the thing.

 

As for being a marksman, if you read the entirety of my guide you will realise that it has nothing whatsoever to do with being a DM, none of the tactics are applicable for a DM, and a bolt-action isn't even very good for a DM.

 

I'm sorry to be a little blunt, but this seems to be a little bit of "if u dont have ghillie then u iz n00bzzzorzzzz DM, not elite deltasealsassbsspetznazgsg9sfsupermen like me and my buddies", no offense meant, but it does come across like that.

Im one of the other resident snipers at tuddenham and its a rather unique site for ghillies.

 

I play at 2 sites, one being a massive woodland, and the other being tuddenham, which is made up of an overgrown urban, scrubland and small wood.

 

First of all, GHILLIES WORK! im sorry, but ghillies do work in airsoft, you right how ever that some players dont make the effort and some wear the completly wrong stuff and makes them stick out like a saw thumb.

 

Woodland:

My self and staceh were at said woodland site and had a player walk over us.

i went by myself last weekend, and marshal knew where i was and watched half the team walk past me, whilst i was lying prone in the middle of a track, was only after they respawned and came back up the track that i actualy took a couple of shots, and hit players but even then they didnt know where i was till i stood up.

 

A ghillie suit on the defence is a must have, wearing normal BDU will work to an extent, but the shape is easier to spot, whilst the ghillie suit using natrual veg will blend you in with your surrounds at LONG and CLOSE ranges.

A ghillie suit on the assault is equally as good, we tend to separate from the main fighting force majority of the time (me and stace work together everytime we play for the past 2 n half years weve known each other) we tend to flank the objectives, whilst remaining spaced out on comms, first sign of movement we stop where we are and observe the area for further movement, use scopes, this is where if a player in a BDU is easier to spot than another player in a ghillie, luckily for us there prolly only 1 or 2 players that use ghillies at both sites we play at. if it appears clear, one of us will continue to move then the 2nd will continue if no engagement starts.

whilst on the assault, if we are spotted, getting low then repositioning with our ghillies hides us, the enemies can and do loose us.

 

same time as the photo of stace

 

start of a game

 

Yes the other team can look at my ghillie but oh knowez they looking at plants. and theres plenty of the same plants in the game site, which means the enemy team must think there surrounded by snipers, more so than a player in a standard BDU, the stuff you talk about how players will not worry bout a guy in a BDU is a load of rubbish, treat each target as a hostile and dont take your eyes off no body, the moment you loose the position of some one, a wrong movement from yourself = death (in airsoft terms)

[monkey530]

The thing about ghillie suits is that people have trouble finding appropriate places to setup. Some people setup in middle of a grass patch where they can't see anything and have to move around to see. Other people try to setup in middle of woodland clearing and don't have their setup properly prepared... IDK. For some people the ghillie could be very helpful where there is lots of low growing vegetation and lows tree lines near open areas. It all depends on the field.

 

What I want to know is how you could get a ghillie to work on a brown clearing, it confuses me. But yeah. Everything in this thread has been covered about camo.

 

Another thing to help players in general and specifically snipers would be to walk around the field before games, even if they aren't using ghillies. I mean everywhere to find like spots and stuff so that you understand where you will be seen and vantage points and how to counter people. Some people don't care about the field they are playing at and are like I will learn as I go so it is more milsim which is bull. Also practicing hitting targets on the range that day helps also. Some people over estimate their range because they have XXX FPS and XXX range on so and so day.

 

Question about snipers. I hear some have mags with different weight bb's when they need accuracy and sometimes more range since it is not windy.

 

PS. I am not a sniper, but interested.

[TheBauer]

Question about snipers. I hear some have mags with different weight bb's when they need accuracy and sometimes more range since it is not windy.

 

Yes and no, i usually run .36 through my rifle if its windy, but will change to .29 if its not.

 

i dont carry different mags with different ammo in game because with that change you need to change the hop settting.

 

so its something i would do after the end of a game, not during.

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

TheBauer, your setup is the same as Staceh's, it's just BDUs with plants stuffed into it, it's not really a ghillie suit at all.

Essentially you are just wearing BDUs and adding a little bit of cam to your top half.

 

Therefore as I was saying that BDUs are sufficient you have proved my point for me, as an AEG user I have stuffed a couple of plants into my jacket a few times, but it's hardly a ghillie suit is it?

You are claiming that I'm wrong and yet you are yourself a textbook example of what I was saying all along, if a ghillie suit worked then you'd be wearing one, would you not?

 

That said, the site I usually go to has quite a wide variety of colours in the scenery, so that probably degrades the effectiveness of the ghillie suit even further, perhaps they do work at some sites, but I still think that they are far more about looking like a sniper than increasing your ability.

 

Each to their own, just like geardos.

 

[TheBauer]

TheBauer, your setup is the same as Staceh's, it's just BDUs with plants stuffed into it, it's not really a ghillie suit at all.

Essentially you are just wearing BDUs and adding a little bit of cam to your top half.

 

Therefore as I was saying that BDUs are sufficient you have proved my point for me, as an AEG user I have stuffed a couple of plants into my jacket a few times, but it's hardly a ghillie suit is it?

You are claiming that I'm wrong and yet you are yourself a textbook example of what I was saying all along, if a ghillie suit worked then you'd be wearing one, would you not?

 

That said, the site I usually go to has quite a wide variety of colours in the scenery, so that probably degrades the effectiveness of the ghillie suit even further, perhaps they do work at some sites, but I still think that they are far more about looking like a sniper than increasing your ability.

 

Each to their own, just like geardos.

LOL mate you clearly have no idea what your talking about:

 

just because i havent bought a premade ghillie suit from www.ghilliesuits.com does not make not aghillie suit.

 

a ghillie is used to break up the shape and conceal the hunter/sniper/what ever

 

my ghillie isnt just a bdu, with plants attachted. and even if it was, it is still better than what your saying of just wearing a plain bdu.

our ghillies use a bdu as a base, cos im not gona run around nakad am i? fool.

over the top we have sewn in a webtex concleament vest (i personally dont like the length and in the summer dont need to ghillie my legs as there is enough natrual veg to conceal them well enough. on the webtex vest i have ;

Hessian/jute/burlap (omg noez REAL ghillie suit material .. run for the hills)

camo net

veggie hoops

 

my rifle is the same, ive use the sleeve from a DPM shirt to make a cover, it then has netting with veggie hoops, hessian and camo net on.

 

yes me and stace run the same set up because after many different tries of set up it does work.

heres a previous set up from 2 summers ago. im on the left stace is on the right. were in an open field with a lovley FOV, my suit is a Bushrag ghillie suit, the poncho type which was cut in half and sewn onto the shirt and the legs, we scrapped that because we didnt like our fronts covered when prone, and when crouched and slunched over your front is covered by your rifle and shoulders.

 

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

There's a little bit of a difference between that picture and your first one, isn't there?

 

You also notice how unnatural your suits look in the second picture, how remarkably easy to spot they are, although the one on the right is better, it still stands out like a sore thumb, and I'm assuming that this is the best picture you can find to demonstrate the 'effectiveness' of your suit.

 

If so then the proof is there for all to see.

[TheBauer]

There's a little bit of a difference between that picture and your first one, isn't there?

well yeh, there 2 different suits

 

You also notice how unnatural your suits look in the second picture, how remarkably easy to spot they are, although the one on the right is better, it still stands out like a sore thumb, and I'm assuming that this is the best picture you can find to demonstrate the 'effectiveness' of your suit.

i still wouldnt say they are easy to spot, they dont look as good as if i had used less burlap and more natural veg, as for the best picture, i had to look for that one, as like i said this was 2 years ago, and i dont have many photos from that far back.

 

If so then the proof is there for all to see.

you still wrong, a simple BDU on its own is not as effective as either of the 2 suits shown above.

 

theres nothing written any where that a ghillie suit "is completly synthetic hessian based from ghilliesuits.com"

 

theres another picture of my current suit.

 

oh knows the damn knee pad gives me away.

but from the only way you see that is from the camera mans angle, this photo is in game, and guess what, it works, it breaks me up and conceals me with my surroundings, if i was standing there in a bdu with no rifle rag i would stick out like a saw thumb no? oh no your right, id blend in perfectly, plus the other team wouldnt think to shoot me cos im just wearing a bdu and therefore not a threat

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

How many different pictures are you gonna pull out while trying to prove this one? seriously, it doesn't matter how good the pictures are, you aren't addressing the actual issue, which is whether they are effective in airsoft.

 

As I stated in my original post, I have used ghillie suits as a visual aid to spot snipers, I wouldn't be able to identify them as snipers if they were wearing BDUs.

More to the point, if I spot a player who is out of range of an AEG wearing a ghillie suit I will assume that he has a high-powered rifle and is able to hit me, as such I will seek cover and generally take evasive action.

If I spot a player wearing BDUs at the same range I am very unlikely to assume that he has a sniper rifle, and therefore is unable to hit me, and then *THWACK* he shoots me.

 

See the difference? the ghillie suited sniper is at a significant disadvantage in that situation.

I believe the idea of wearing a BDU comes under the term "hiding in plain sight" and has worked for me on every single occasion I have taken my sniper rifle out.

 

 

The simple fact of that matter is that if you hide well enough you can be invisible in a flourescent orange gimp suit, but the ghillie suit makes no difference at such short ranges, as is perfectly demonstrated by every picture you have posted here, in each one you stick out enough that you are very easy to spot, OK, so you stick out slightly less than someone wearing BDUs, but not by enough to make any significant difference to the time it takes someone to see you, let alone there being any question over whether or not they do see you.