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Has anyone who has installed the Guarder TM Glock 17 frame found that the magazine is a very tight fit and it doesn't drop free very easily?

Happened on my 2013 guarder G17 frame too. The tolerances are all over the damn place.

 

The magwell of the frame was also too low so I couldn't use a magwell and normal mags wouldn't fit until I took a file to it.

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Thanks.

Mine is the newer version too, I'm not sure if it will loosen up as the magazine is showing quite a bit of wear and it has gotten a bit better but I've got a bad feeling that it's so tight that it may depress the high flow valve installed in the magazine and dump all the gas (I've not had a chance to test it properly yet)

I've actually got one of the original frames come to think of it, I'll need to try it out and see if the same problem occurs.

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Nothing pretty, but I have to say for the price these Stark guns are really well put together and feel very good in general.  Here's hoping for the full size M&P to show up ASAP.

 

IMG_1488_zps05786999.jpg

 

IMG_1486_zps22c78c34.jpg

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HK3 G17 Gen3 - I spent 3 hours stippling the frame, shrinking the finger grooves and undercutting the trigger guard in the hopes that it'll prevent me from selling it, buying a 1911, then realising Glocks are far more practical and fit my hand better all over again. 

 

G172.jpg

 

G171.jpg

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This is the second one I've done personally - I'm really pleased with how it turned out, but it definitely took a while. Saying that, with the trigger guard undercut I find my previous tendency to point Glocks downwards a little has disappeared, which was the aim. There's also no chance of it slipping out of my hand, it'd take a fair bit of skin with it if it did!

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What makes Glocks more work? I ask nervously as I'm about to get out the Dremel and soldering iron ha ha.

The stippling itself is generally quick work for me as I have a specialized tip I made that does many dots with each dab. It really comes down to how much reshaping of the frame before the stippling you want to do. I tend to reshape mine quite a bit, similar to how BoresightSolutions does his Glocks and M&Ps. Which generally means removal of the finger grooves, removal of the grip side panels, recontoring the back strap, recontouring the trigger guard to frame transition, radiusing the rear top of the frame for a higher tang grip, scalloping the mag release area for a deeper mag release press. Sanding everything buttery smooth starting with 150 grit and ending with 2000 grit sandpaper. Then I mask off the areas that need stippling and then stipple and polish. The stippling itself takes about 20% of the entire project time. It's a lot of work but it's time well spent. And I'm not saying its the only way to do it. It's all about personal preference. But that's how I do it.

 

For anyone else tackling the work on their own, my recommendation would be to removal material in whatever way feels comfortable for both left and right handed use (so I'd suggest not molding it exclusively around your dominant hand). Then take a look at how you grip the gun. You don't really need to stipple the entire frame. It's overkill in some cases. Take a look at what the pros do and see if you can visualize why they do it in those areas. Some people draw the borders with a sharpie as a visual indicator of where to stipple within. I like to use thin strips of masking tape to define the borders of the stipple work. It acts as a visual border but also protects the areas you don't want stippled. Then start stippling.

 

How you stipple is up to you. I like randomness. Some people like to do their dots in straight lines. Again, it's personal preference. My issue with the aesthetics of straight lines is its almost impossible to get perfectly straight lines by hand, which means it inevitably (usually) looks hand crafted and stands out. I prefer to try and make the grips look like they were OEM'ed with the texture I give them. Random (but consistent) stippling works a little better (IMO) in that regard.

 

A few pointers:

• When you stipple, you tend to get sharp edges around where the area that is melted. One option is to take some 500 grit sandpaper and lightly brush over the stippled areas to bring the sharpness down. I then take a brush (an old toothbrush works great) and brush out the excess sanded powder.

• Rather than sanding after the fact, you can also dab the soft plastic with a finger tip right after you stippled the spot. It'll be hot (possibly unpleasantly so, so be careful), but it will soften the edges a little. Give it a try on some scrap plastic. See what works best for you.

• Also, take a look at the bottom of the mag well. You'll notice the material gets really thin at the bottom because Glock designed the mag well to be flared. If you stipple all the way to the bottom, chances are you'll warp the base of the mag well. So I recommend leaving the entire bottom 3-4mm of grip unstippled.

• Practice the pattern you want to stipple on scrap plastic before you do it on the frame of the gun. What seems awesome in theory may not look so awesome in actual execution. Try a bunch of techniques out and different tips. You may accidentally find something is awesome that you hadn't expected would be.

• Different plastics melt differently. Be prepared for that when you start stippling. Some plastics melt nicely, some get stringy. If you have colored plastics (non-black) those may also stipple differently as the color dyes change the material properties slightly. This isn't just an airsoft issue. I've stippled RS Gen 3 and RS Gen 4 Glocks back to back and they stippled differently.

• On some frames (especially TM OEM frames) you may encounter a bubble in the frame. I see it a lot on TM frames especially around the trigger guard. If you do, don't panic. Take some of the scrap plastic shavings from when you did the frame reshaping, and (carefully) melt it into the bubble concavity. Then sand and reshape.

• TAKE YOUR TIME WITH IT.

 

:)

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Excellent advice.  Thanks.  I've done a couple of KAC panels with a random spread which turned out well for a first attempt so hopefully I can pull it off again for the frame.

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Here's one I did for a friend a while back. I'm not sure if I ever posted it here. The stippling goes a little higher on the beaver tail than I normally do it. I usually try to not stipple the beaver tail area that comes in contact with the web of your hand as it can be abrasive and isn't needed. It was requested in that way so I ended up sanding it down a fair bit so that particular area between the thumb and index knuckles is mostly or aesthetics.post-29472-0-03257600-1382135358_thumb.jpg

post-29472-0-88570900-1382135379_thumb.jpgpost-29472-0-48588200-1382135429_thumb.jpgpost-29472-0-21472300-1382135443_thumb.jpgpost-29472-0-86569800-1382135453_thumb.jpg

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Yep, you've posted that before. I remember because those were the pictures that motivated me to stipple my g19. Amazing work.

 

I think I may end up going back and doing more re-contouring on my g19 frame though as I didn't shape it much before. Then finish off with re-stippling again. It's a time consuming process with my single tip soldering iron but it is worth it.

 

I agree about the random pattern being best. It looks more professional because in general trying to get a pattern perfect is impossibly by hand and will just look tacky. I'd definitely recommend going random. I also went with super small tip/holes as it gives a grip tape like feel. Tape helps get suuuuper clean edges too.

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Since we're on the topic. Any advice for materials to use to practise stippling Glock frames?

 

I thought of VHS tapes, but I don't think I can find those anywhere :P

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Skyrider: one last tip, some plastics don't take well to being restippled. So just be cautious when you do it. Though, if you're going to recontour the frame you should be fine since you'll be stippling raw plastic that's never been melted/burned before.

 

Nonex: if you have any old stocks, hand guards grips or rail panels, those work well enough as practice pieces. The material most likely won't be quite the same as the Glock frames, but its good practice all the same. My only concern with you is your so OCD, no matter how good it comes out it may never be good enough for your taste. :P

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Ha.  I can just imagine NonEx sitting at a desk.  Head in hands.  A bin full of partially stippled Glock frames at his feet. :lol:

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Stippled few more stuffs since my "Noveske-ish pattern" Glock, so I'm gonna drop two cents :P

 

Like uscmCorps said, freshly melted plastic tend to become sticky and stick to the tool head, forming a spike-like shape and could be painful to grip.

I use a file to slightly flatten the spikes and wash the piece to remove the plastic powers, then sandpaper the piece wile still wet, usually sanding wet would produce a nice OEM-like semi gloss finish, which I like the look and nice to touch, while the stippling can still provide grip.

Oh, that's for some "bigger" patterns, smaller "dots" seems don't benefit from this technique.

 

ABS tend to melt like Nutella when heated with soldering iron, yummy.

"Fiber reinforced polymer" ( isn't ABS a polymer? :P ) tend to "boil" at the place touching the iron, producing very tiny bubbles and matt finish when dry, while some places just melt ( but not by directly touching the iron, usually next to the iron ) , become "gooey" and dry when cool, producing a very glossy look.

 

 

Stippling is like the shooting activity itself:

Practice before you go for the actual event, and while you do it, take your time.

The motto: Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

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I will post up some reference pics of what I am after and then maybe you can give me some tips of how to achieve that. Or close to it.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/sidef2.jpg/

To get exactly that style of frame work done, the first thing you do is recontour the frame. Remove the front finger grooves, round the front of the trigger guard, remove the side grip panels, and remove the grip texture at the rear of the grip. Sand it all to get a consistent and even surface. Once you remove all the excess material, sand and polish the areas that are near the intended stippling zones. Hold the frame in yours hands in a natural grip. How does it feel? Is it comfortable? Are there any areas that need modification? You need to figure that out now before you start stippling. Also take note, of how you personally grip the gun ... where do you really need stippling? The gun you have referred to, has stippling in the rear arch of the trigger guard where the middle finger would rest. IMHO, that doesn't offer any significant additional control of the gun, and more likely will cause discomfort over a duration of extended use. So take a look to see what works for YOU.

 

Use some masking tape (I usually take wide strips of tape and using a metal ruler and exacto blade, cut thin 3-4mm wide strips of tape) and frame the areas that will be stippled.

 

Now, that your frame is ready, practice your technique for a few minutes on a piece of scrap plastic. To get a random pattern, just randomly put dots all over intended stipple area. Don't cluster up. Just try to be random about it. The first pass should appear to be random but evenly spaced dots. Then repeat. Eventually you end up just filling in empty spaces.

 

When you're all done with dotting the frame, use some 400 or 500 grit sandpaper and just lightly brush the surface to get the sharp edges off. Go lightly at first.

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