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nachostheclown

Systema M4 PTW MAX(2008)

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I'm going to start this review off with a disclaimer. I am still a PTW novice and really don't know all that much about the inner workings of this gun. From a technology standpoint it's quite a leap from standard AEGs. Comparing it to normal AEGs is like comparing an AEG to an LPEG you would get from the flea market. Now I am in no way knocking standard AEGs, they are the back bone of the hobby and work just fine for what we use them for. A standard AEG in the right hands can be tuned to the same performance as a PTW. But the fact is there is a huge difference in technology, this could be a good thing or a bad thing.

 

Part 1

 

On to the review. This review will be a multi part put together over time as I learn more about the gun.

 

What you get for $1500. In the box you will find the weapon, one 120 round mag, loading tool, small bag of BBs, instructions on CD, hop adjustment tool, registration card, M150(red) cylinder and if purchased from an authorized dealer a warranty. You must use Systema brand battery's, if you don't you will void the warranty.

 

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The complete game usable kit. This is a gun that you can't just buy and run right out and use in a game. Mags are proprietary and the M150 is not realistically game useable(something we will go into later). In my opinion the things you need at a minimum is a 6 pack of mags, 9.6volt battery and the M110(blue) cylinder. Pictured is also the 12volt battery for the M150(red) cylinder, Sure-Fire RIS, EOtech, G+P Troy flash suppressor, and back up sight. So with the minimum your looking at a total in the $2200 range. As pictured your pushing closer to $3000.00. This is of course the biggest down fall of the PTW, the price.

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The gun itself is very heavy. It's weighted the same as its real steel counterpart. The build quality is second to none, it's for the most part indistinguishable from the real thing. Some comparison shots with the real thing.

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Trade marks are nice but of course not realistic. Red Wolf has lowers with proper trades.

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I opted for the full-auto version. It's my understanding that the auto versions can be converted to burst fairly easily.

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The gearbox and electronics are held within the lower receiver. As you can see everything is very compact. The gun has what can be described as small computer that monitors everything the gun is doing. Every time the weapon fires the pistons always ends in the forward position. It also monitors power consumption and lets you know if there is any issues via a small LED just forward the gearbox.

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The electronics system also allows for "last shot lock back". When the weapon fires the last BB the gun stops firing, no dry firing. To get the weapon to fire again, a fresh mag must be inserted and the bolt release has to be depressed. You can see the bolt catch in this picture along side the real steel.

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More to come

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Part II

 

Cylinder changes are done quite easily. Just pop the rear push pin and open the weapon up as you would the real weapon. Then pull back the charging handle and remove the cylinder. It's no different then pulling the bolt carrier from a real one.

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Battery is held in the crane stock. Fairly easy battery change and the wiring is heavy duty.

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Some quick notes about the M150. With this cylinder your pushing 500+ fps with .2s. With the 12volt battery you have a solid stream of BB's. You can engage targets well beyond the range of most standard AEGs. It is extremely dangerous at close range. If it were allowed in a game strict rules would have to be in place for safety reasons.

 

M150 VS heavy gauge roofing aluminum.

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M150 VS ESS goggles. They survive but are completely unusable.

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More to follow

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Part III The magazines

 

Depending on how you look at it the magazines for the PTW can be plus or a minus.

 

I'll start with the negatives. The gun can not use anything other then PTW mags. You can also not use PTW mags in any other gun. This could be bad for several reasons. The first is you would not be able to exchange mags in the heat of battle with a team mate if they are using anything but a PTW. Right now there are very few PTWs on our local fields. The next issue is price, PTW mags are close to $50.00 a piece. You can get a six pack for $250-$275. The next issue would be choices, you have one. The only mag available is the 120 round midcap.

 

The good things. The mag is exactly the same size and weight of a loaded 30 round real steel mag. The mag also looks and feels exactly like a real mag. The best part is the mag feeds every single BB. It also feeds the BBs realiably unlike many other cheaper mid-caps. The quality of the mag is unmatched, but it should be for the price.

 

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From left to right, standard mag, PTW mag, real steel.

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As you can see the standard mag is a little shorter then the the PTW mag and the RS.

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More to follow

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Great review...Cant wait for the next segment.

Tell me...did any of the documents state how long the warranty is?

I plan on buying one with my visa signature card which can extend an manufacter's warranty to 5 years for an additional fee.

it is something like $200 which is cheap compared to an out of waranty repair.

It reimburses for repairs at any local shop :-D

 

Thanks in advance.

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Great review...Cant wait for the next segment.

Tell me...did any of the documents state how long the warranty is?

I plan on buying one with my visa signature card which can extend an manufacter's warranty to 5 years for an additional fee.

it is something like $200 which is cheap compared to an out of waranty repair.

It reimburses for repairs at any local shop :-D

 

Thanks in advance.

 

According to Systema USA they will stand behind every factory built gun for one year.

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Good review and so far looks like avery nice gun. Not sure if I would be willing to pay US$3,000 for it, but it looks great.

 

Keep up the great review.

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Great review. Maybe a little more on internals and upgrades, but I will concede that there's not a whole lot to review about those that hasn't been said before.

 

I also love that it's the one of about one PTW reviews I've seen that hasn't gone THIS GUN AM BESTEST, BUY 50 OF THEM. IT HAS NO FLAWS. WHATSOEVER. TOTALLY WORTH YOUR PARENTS' MONEY.

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I see you got the auto version, but just thought I'd add that the '08 Burst chip is updated: It no longer shoots three rounds per tap, but rather stops the burst as soon as the trigger is released. Just like the real thing.

 

Very nice comparison shots. What's the brand of the real thing again?

 

-Sale

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Great review. Maybe a little more on internals and upgrades, but I will concede that there's not a whole lot to review about those that hasn't been said before.

 

I also love that it's the one of about one PTW reviews I've seen that hasn't gone THIS GUN AM BESTEST, BUY 50 OF THEM. IT HAS NO FLAWS. WHATSOEVER. TOTALLY WORTH YOUR PARENTS' MONEY.

 

Did you read my review? I think you'd like that one lol.

 

The magazine shells are garbage. They have no telfon coating on them to repel rust. Believe me, if you live in a humid area you're going to be pretty ###### in a very short amount of time. The mag shells begin to rust through almost immediately. Ive taken to using two products on them breakfree to get rid of the rust and then a product called Strike Hold which dries completely yet leaves a nice almost wax like coating on the magazine although its not sticky and doesnt attract dirt.

 

Not like anyone cares but ive shelved my PTW's for the time being and im using a VFC scar. 420 dollar gun versus 3500 (after accessories are bolted on) and the 420 dollar gun wins. Further proof that expensive stuff is not always the best.

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Minor point but I noticed something about the mags...

 

People moan cos G&G and ICS make M16 mags the same size as real ones.

The problem is that the mag doesn't go as far into the gun as a real mag goes into a real gun. As a result it hangs down further.

That's why airsoft M16 mags are shorter. When they're in the gun they look correct.

 

So, I notice that the PTW mag is the same length as a real one.

Does it fit into the gun further than a normal AEG?

Does it look right when it's in or does it hand down too far like an ICS or G&G mag does in a normal AEG?

 

I know this is a minor point but I was just wondering.

 

Oh, and while you're at it, can you confirm how the mag tells the gun it's empty?

Is there some kind of follower in the mag or is it a sensor in the hop-up somewhere?

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Oh, and while you're at it, can you confirm how the mag tells the gun it's empty?

Is there some kind of follower in the mag or is it a sensor in the hop-up somewhere?

 

There is a follower in the magazine that pushes up on the sensor to kill power to the gears. Push the bolt release, that tells the sensor that there's ammo, and you can fire. Basically, it's taking GBB technology and making it electronic.

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There is a follower in the magazine that pushes up on the sensor to kill power to the gears. Push the bolt release, that tells the sensor that there's ammo, and you can fire. Basically, it's taking GBB technology and making it electronic.

That's what I thought.

 

In the news thread about the MP5 PTW people are talking about how the M4 has a laser beam in the hop-up which detects when there's a BB in there.

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So, I notice that the PTW mag is the same length as a real one.

Does it fit into the gun further than a normal AEG?

Does it look right when it's in or does it hand down too far like an ICS or G&G mag does in a normal AEG?

 

Oh, and while you're at it, can you confirm how the mag tells the gun it's empty?

Is there some kind of follower in the mag or is it a sensor in the hop-up somewhere?

 

Answer to first question. I never thought about it, so I had to go look and see. The mag is seated deeper into the gun then on a standard AEG. Here are some side by side photos with the Colt to illustrate.

 

Systema top and Colt bottom

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Second question Connery answered but here are some pics to help.

 

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In these pics you can see the small tab on the back of the mag.

 

BB's

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No BB's. That black thing that looks like a BB is actually the follower. That little black tab moves up just enough to engage the bolt catch.

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Thanks for the positive comments on the review. I definitely don't think this gun is BESTORZ but it is very different then what I'm used to. Only time will tell if I really like it or not. I already have a list of pros and cons and as of right now the pros out way the cons. Keep in mind that this is only week 3 with it, so I still have a lot to learn.

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Expect to lose every single one of those followers in short order. :D

 

Haven't lost mine from my original three magazines yet. The second two that I bought secondhand didn't even come with the follower.

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Did you read my review? I think you'd like that one lol.

Nope. That's why I said it was one of one; my searching skills here and on the Internet in general are incredibly full of 100% pasteurized fail, lol. I'm sure there are others (i.e. yours) but I can't find them.

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Did you read my review? I think you'd like that one lol.

 

 

Sounds like you had some bad luck. Not sure if I read it correctly but was your gun a kit gun assembled by a store? If so I think there is a quality control difference between a kit gun and a factory built gun.

 

Here is the link to Magsz review for another point of view.

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...=123482&hl=

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Sounds like you had some bad luck. Not sure if I read it correctly but was your gun a kit gun assembled by a store? If so I think there is a quality control difference between a kit gun and a factory built gun.

 

Here is the link to Magsz review for another point of view.

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...=123482&hl=

 

The only difference between the SCK and the MAX prebuilt guns are the fact that the MAX guns leave the factory working.

 

An SCK could be shipping with busted electronics.

 

I dont have electronics issues, i have mechanical issues from parts that are all the SAME or supposed to be the same.

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The only difference between the SCK and the MAX prebuilt guns are the fact that the MAX guns leave the factory working.

 

That right there makes spending the $400-$500 more for a completed, warrantied and tested gun well worth it to me.

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That right there makes spending the $400-$500 more for a completed, warrantied and tested gun well worth it to me.

 

To you yes, to others they simply dont care but its DEFINITELY a concern and you're 100% right to point that out yet again.

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I really wouldnt say its quieter. It does have a unique sound but the guns are downright loud as far as im concerned.

 

Guns that sound like sewing machines are improperly shimmed.

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