Formula One

[GuzziHero]

Type of thing that could happen to anyone. Heck, it aint as bad as what DC suffered with his front suspension explosion!

[Stealthbomber]

Ferrari's statement regarding Massa's spin was his rear diffuser stalled when he hit the turn 6 curb so the car basically had no rear grip into turn 7....

Eh?

 

Take a look at the CIRCUIT here.

 

If his diffuser "stalled" on turn 6 there was plenty of time for it to get unstalled by turn 7.

All I saw was the car start to oversteer on the exit of turn 7 (no problems going into turn 7) as he fed in the throttle.

When he turned into 8 the car just came around on him.

 

I suspect he was just a tiny bit heavy on the throttle out of turn 7, broke the grip on the rear and tried to drift it around turn 8.

To be fair, if he'd tried to correct the skid between turns 7 & 8 he'd have been off for sure so trying to control it on the throttle was his only choice.

 

I was just surprised at the way people said "that was sudden!" when it wasn't. The TV was showing the feed from his on-board camera and you could clearly see him dialling in more and more lock (first one way then the other) as he came out of 7 and into 8.

 

On a different note, I see somebody from F1H must be patrolling Youtube. Most F1 related videos are down within minutes.

[GuzziHero]

Meh.

 

This thread is turning more and more into pro-Ferrari vs anti-Ferrari.

 

If I wanted partisan ######, Id remove my brain and watch football.

 

Sadly, this post is aimed more at the pro-Ferrari folks who only seem to post to attack other teams or venerate Ferrari. Whatever...Im bored of it.

 

Enjoy the rest of the season, whoever you root for.

[RacingManiac]

Eh?

 

Take a look at the CIRCUIT here.

 

If his diffuser "stalled" on turn 6 there was plenty of time for it to get unstalled by turn 7.

All I saw was the car start to oversteer on the exit of turn 7 (no problems going into turn 7) as he fed in the throttle.

When he turned into 8 the car just came around on him.

 

I suspect he was just a tiny bit heavy on the throttle out of turn 7, broke the grip on the rear and tried to drift it around turn 8.

To be fair, if he'd tried to correct the skid between turns 7 & 8 he'd have been off for sure so trying to control it on the throttle was his only choice.

 

I was just surprised at the way people said "that was sudden!" when it wasn't. The TV was showing the feed from his on-board camera and you could clearly see him dialling in more and more lock (first one way then the other) as he came out of 7 and into 8.

 

On a different note, I see somebody from F1H must be patrolling Youtube. Most F1 related videos are down within minutes.

 

The article quoted the number wrong, it was the double apex right hander in which Massa lost the car, which is actually 7 and 8....Ferrari's statement said 6, but it was pretty clear on TV where he spun....it makes sense as they do use the inside curb in 7 and 8 as they navigate that section of the track....

 

It might just be though Ferrari does not regard turn 3 on that graph as a corner...as they don't need to lift or brake through that at all....

[fool]

Have you guys seen the news about Max Mosley.

 

News Of The World:

F1 boss Max Mosley has sick Nazi orgy with 5 hookers

FORMULA One motor racing chief Max Mosley is today exposed as a secret sado-masochist sex pervert. The son of infamous British wartime ...

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/3003_nazi_orgy.shtml

The site is obviously very slow due to trafic but the video is also on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxvFADEX3us

 

If this turns out to be true Mosley could be done. Maybe they accidently released their april 1st joke .

[Stealthbomber]

I always find it odd the way celeb's who use illegal drugs are usually treated with sympathy and almost never prosecuted.

Meanwhile, celeb's who get up to kinky stuff get hounded and are often prosecuted for it. Go figure.

 

Personally, I pity guys who can't get what they need from their wife.

If you want a woman in nazi uniform to walk on you wearing high-heeled boots or whip your *albatross* then, for gords sake, MARRY ONE!

Don't marry some Delia Smith clone and then spend your time sloping off to prostitutes to get what you feel you can't ask your wife for.

[GuzziHero]

Only just read about this...hmm, I know the tabloids just love smearing people so Im keeping schtum till something is actually proven.

 

---

In other news... I know its not Formula One, but I was very saddened to hear of the death of David Leslie. I dont know what it is with Scottish motorsports starts and air travel lately but... Hislop, McRae, Coulthard having a near miss and now Leslie? Crazy, man.

 

---

Oh...and Jason 'Lunatic' Plato nearly killed Tom Onslow-Cole with his reckless driving on Sunday. Why hasnt that poo-nugget been banned yet?

[Chimpy]

Who gives a *beep* what he gets up to in his private life?

[GuzziHero]

Obviously the small-penii parasites which we jokingly call the British newsmen think we should!

[Chimpy]

I don't see why we should do their job for them then by bringing it up everywhere.

 

No platform to *beep* news!

[Stealthbomber]

Speaks volumes about the Bahrain race that nobody bothered to post about it.

 

We all know I'm not a Ferrari fan so I guess I don't need to say much about the result.

The one thing that DOES always amaze me is that, whenever there's bad luck going around, the Ferrari's seem to be charmed. Oh well.

 

Nice to see the Bimmer doing so well. I know F1 usually has a couple of dominant teams and everybody else as also-rans but it'll be nice if the pendulum swings in a totally different direction instead of alternating between Ferrari and McLaren.

Regardless of my feelings about Ferrari, they've had a settled time over the last few years.

They've had a team principal who had the ear of Sergio Marchionne, a strategist who was, undeniably a genius and a driver who was also pretty good, even if he did have a big chin.

These factors are all gone now and I can't help hoping that wondering if this is the last year that the regime they put in place will remain. There's big changes next year and I dunno if Ferrari have any people in place smart enough to develop all the new things required.

I don't know much about Massa but I don't think Raikkonen has ever been to clever at developing a car. It remains to be seen if Ferrari can get a handle on the new Aerodynamic rules for next year.

 

Again, no particular disrespect to Ferrari intended. I hope McLaren make a pigs ear of it too. I'd like to see a couple of different teams battling for podium places next year. Toyota and BMW or Williams, perhaps?

 

So, what about Alonso, eh?

Did he brake-test Hamilton?

Interesting that McLaren chose NOT to raise a complaint against him.

I can't help wondering why not.

Dunno if they're hoping a bit of good-will will be returned to them or perhaps they don't want to see Barrichello or Fisichella promoted if Alonso was excluded.

In any case, it seems a shame that a possible infraction might go unpunished. If Alonso is in the habit of hitting the brakes (or simply backing-off the throttle) to stop people getting too close then, frankly, he wants a good slap.

 

As one of the ITV team said, if Alonso is innocent then he should really insist that the telemetry is released, proving he was still on the throttle.

From that POV, if we don't get to see the telemetry, I guess that might be seen as a sign of his guilt.

 

Lastly, is it me or is ITV (now they know it's their last year) putting more and more adverts into F1 now?

[RacingManiac]

Pat Symond did release the telemetry post race, and he was full throttle with no brake...guess the McLaren is just that much better with traction than Renault(Autosport and ITV's site all reported on this)....

 

On your piece with Ferrari, they've been 80% new in 2007 with No MS, no Ross, no Paolo Martinelli(engine), no Rory Bryne(chassis/aero), and now 100% new(no Todt). They certainly did ok last year, and thus far they have been doing alright other than Australia(which interestingly Ferrari blamed McLaren-made unified ECU for it, for obvious reason, lol). Ferrari though probably does share your sentiment about car development, which is why they have already started the 2009 car, and its schedule to hit the track before season's done, with possibly that guy with the chin doing testing for them(as he did in 2007-2008 transition). They do need to keep the tension up though, or with now a primarily Italian team structure(as opposed to very international one back in the 96-06 period), they might fall back to their "dark ages"....

 

McLaren now seems to be suffering a tad, last year their forte was a car that's good on tire wear and getting the tire up to temp quicker. Now they are suffering abit on both front in Malaysia and Bahrain(albeit both very similar track in nature). Skeptic may start pointing out about the car developing ability of Hamilton, though Kovy on the other hand is very much a testing specialist.....Wonder if Hamilton is suffering a bit without Alonso pushing the setup along, since Hamilton shared his setup throughout much of 2007....

 

 

[Stealthbomber]

Good to hear Alonso wasn't being a nobber, assuming the telemetry can't be faked.

 

Regarding Ferrari, I think Jean Todt understood that Italians aren't really the best at disciplined, incremental progress. He made the team as international as he could.

If the new guy doesn't see things the same way, I can see Ferrari coming un-stuck in a big way next year. This year wasn't so bad since this years car was developed last year while some of the old team were still around. The 2009 car will be the first one developed without any of the Todt/Braun management.

Remember what happened in 1996 (I think), when the new rules about cockpit side height and padded sides were introduced?

Everybody else had spotted a loophole in the reg's and built the car to suit. Meanwhile, Ferrari produced a car that looked like a bath-chair on wheels because they just didn't have anybody who was slippery enough to think their way around the rules.

 

I've always found that the Australian race (since it's been first) can't be trusted as a gauge of what the cars will be like throughout the season.

Dunno why but there's something about the track that treats cars in a different way.

At the moment it seems that, on a normal circuit, the Ferrari is much easier on tyres than the Mclaren.

 

I think a lot of these teams are going to suffer in development with their super-duper young drivers who probably wouldn't know what to do with a clutch pedal if they saw one.

I reckon drivers like Barrichello and Coulthard might have a better time if they quit F1 and got test driving jobs.

With so many young drivers in F1 and not many "old hands" I think the teams are going to be struggling to get useful info out of a lot of the drivers in the next few years.

[GuzziHero]

"Splish-splash, I was takin a bath

'long about a Saturday night"

 

 

Yesterday...I cant be bothered to give a review of, it was that boring.

 

Yay!

Massa - good, calm, controlled win. Thats the way to do it!

Kubica - noone really expected him to win did they? He did as good a job as was possible

Heidfeld - Kept Kubica honest

Barrichello - for challenging Alonso and showing that the only way really is up for Honda

Fisichella - while he can get used to outside-the-top-10 finishes, he continues to do a fine job

 

 

Nay!

Raikkonen - just off song this weekend. He only gets this because he needs to be imposing himself on Massa all the time, and he just didnt do that

Kovalainen - continues to show he (at least so far) aint no superstar

Hamilton - schoolboy error at the start, and he should know his cars performance advantages over Renault by now

Nakajima - continues to unimpress. What did I tell you about him being another Katayama?

Coulthard/Button - the Red Bull and the White Bulldozer were always together on the racetrack till Buttons retirement...but togetherness can sometimes be a bad thing... Maybe they should take up rallying if they want to be driver/co-driver so much!

[fool]

Räikkönen on pole \o/

 

I wonder if McLaren is paying for having two young drivers who don't have much experience in tweaking F1 cars or the car really is just slow. Alonso 2nd and Hamilton 5th both guys are known to be very aggressive from the start and not having the best performing cars we might get some carnage in the start.

[GuzziHero]

What Im wondering is if McLaren have gone too far to placate the FIA after Ferraris trumped up charges last year, and actually stymied their own individual car development.

 

And isnt this the first time Alonso has outqualified Hamilton this year?

 

Ah well, .2s isnt it between 1st and 5th?

 

And is this the last race for Super Aguri?

[RacingManiac]

What Im wondering is if McLaren have gone too far to placate the FIA after Ferraris trumped up charges last year, and actually stymied their own individual car development.

 

And isnt this the first time Alonso has outqualified Hamilton this year?

 

Ah well, .2s isnt it between 1st and 5th?

 

And is this the last race for Super Aguri?

 

are we still on the trumped up charges? They admitted, apoligized, and paid for it...I thought it would've been end of story there....

 

Renault is slower than McLaren, have been last year, have been this year thus far. The fact that they are faster now means McLaren have dropped the ball in a big way....though he probably is running pretty light.

 

IMO McLaren is paying for it. Alonso got laughed at last year when he said he brought .5 sec to McLaren with him. Well it certainly looks more like that now. Hamilton is not doing as good a job developing the car as the Spainard did last year, and with the testing mileage cut this year Pedro De La Rosa can't pull his share of load off Hamilton, and McLaren is duly suffering for it....

 

[fool]

I don't know whether Renault was just fast or if Alonso's engine was tuned to the limit since it exploded in the race. I hope tho that he can pull similar performances again just that we'll see different teams in the mix. Heikki had a car failure which led to a pretty big crash but presumably he's OK and can race in Turkey. This and Kubica's crash last year just go to show how incredibly tough and safe these cars are. Stupid safety car rule ruined the race for Heidfield . Hamilton was fairly meh but solid third place. Massa and Räikkönen seemed to have no problem cruising to double win for Ferrari.

[RacingManiac]

Kudos to Renault for having the pace to race at the front now....when it holds together, Alonso did not at all sound that disappointed when he was interviewed, I guess he was enjoying the fact that his car can run for good positions again....

 

The other top teams gotta be worried now as Ferrari pretty much ran a controlled race to stay in front just-so....on a track where everyteam should have pretty much an optimized setup for. Next round is Turkey, another circuit that should suit the red cars....

[Stealthbomber]

Another snooze-tastic race.

 

As I'm not a Ferrari fan, you can imagine I'm not that thrilled about the result but it is becoming obvious that the Ferrari is further ahead of McLaren that we (some of us, at least) first hoped.

 

With Briatore in charge, I get the impression that Renault is more like Ferrari than Ferrari is these days. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd used every trick in the book to get a bit of extra speed out of the car for Alonso's home race. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them looking much more average in Turkey.

 

TBH, the main thing that (as usual) is becoming clear at this stage of the year is that most of the drivers in F1 lack the talent and charisma that makes for a truly legendary F1 driver.

The way the top 5 cars paraded around with a neat little 2 second gap between them all would make Senna turn in his grave.

Seriously, just cos the car was 0.5sec/lap slower than the guy in front, That wouldn't have stopped the likes of Senna, Mansell, Alesi, Lauda or the Shoemaker from pushing hard enough to be locking wheels and sliding the back end through corners.

I know the cars are difficult to drive wheel-to-wheel and these guys have ALL proved themselves in other series, where perhaps the cars are easier to drive close together, but part of the challenge of F1 is to master the unique challenges.

 

Lewis Hamilton needs to stop thinking about protecting 3rd place and concentrate on making the 2 guys in front of him live in fear of seeing him in their mirrors. He needs to make them think they have to check their mirrors twice before EVERY corner, make them worry that every hesitation will create a gap he can pass through.

He needs to take the fight to Ferrari, even if his car isn't capable. He needs to terrify them.

Guys like Senna and Shumacher created a supernatural aura around themselves. If you had equal machinery and equal opportunity you just knew that he was gonna get the lucky break and you would be the one who got a poor set of tyres or oil leak.

That's the sort of image Hamilton needs to project. In the last three races he's done nothing to create any kind of super-star image. If you didn't know him from last year you'd think he was a mid-fielder who'd been given a shot at the big time.

 

There are events in every drivers career that makes them less of a driver and, unfortunately, todays race was one of those situations for Hamilton. Tonight he's a more mundane, less charismatic, driver than he was when he got in the car this morning.

[snowman]

There was a GP yesterday?

 

I was watching the thrilling Le Mans series race from Monza instead!

 

That McLaren crash was Barrowman compared to the one Stefan Ortelli had (glad to say he escaped with nothing worse than a broken ankle - VERY lucky) in his Oreca and Alan McNish was lucky not to be taken out by the flying (literally) Ortelli.

 

Great race, though.

 

Cheers.

[Danke]

I missed it too as I was practicing my trip over a stick and tumble down a hill routine. I'm still as good as I remember I was.

 

Maybe Hamilton has decided to diverge from the Senna route and take the professor angle?

[happy.al]

I’m still not sure about Hamilton, yes he’s got talent but I think this season has shown a lack of experience with regards to being a team leader. He just doesn’t seem to have it in him, yet. Last year was easy for him, he was given a sorted car and all he had to do was point it in the right direction and go fast, this year he has to tell the engineers how to sort out the car.

 

I was surprised by BMW’s lack of race pace, but those silly rules didn’t help. I expect that the BMW’s will be closer to the front next race. I know that ITV where trying to say that the McLaren’s where keeping the Ferrari’s honest, but I just don’t believe it. I think that the Ferrari’s where going easy and if there was a challenge they would pick up the pace and wonder off into the distance.

 

I’m hoping for some closer races in the next few, even if it’s just the 2 Ferrari’s battling it out, or more hopefully the McLaren’s and BMW’s joining in the chase for first place.

 

I’m looking forward to the races being back on BBC, no more adverts and hopefully getting rid of James Allen.

 

 

[RacingManiac]

we can all look forward to getting rid of James Allen...lol

 

I saw the Ortelli crash on youtube....hot damn how did the Audi not get collected in that....

[Stealthbomber]

I’m hoping for some closer races in the next few, even if it’s just the 2 Ferrari’s battling it out, or more hopefully the McLaren’s and BMW’s joining in the chase for first place.

 

I’m looking forward to the races being back on BBC, no more adverts and hopefully getting rid of James Allen.

You're unlikely to see the Ferrari's racing each other unless one of them has already sewn up the drivers championship. If nothing else, the Shumacher era has taught Ferrari they need to consolidate behind a single driver once he's put himself in front of the other guy.

I suspect Massa's season has already been sacrificed, whether he knows it or not.

 

The adverts in yesterdays GP REALLY brought home how poor the ITV coverage is. The first set of ad's were on before the end of the first lap, under a safety car, and overall, both restarts under the safety car were missed due to bloody adverts.

 

I do actually have a lot of respect for the way ITV made F1 into a television "event" every weekend. BBC used to start the coverage 5 minutes before the start of the race and end it sometimes before the driver interviews at the end. The pre-race coverage that ITV do really creates a good atmosphere.

 

However, there are 2 things that the BBC absolutely MUST do in some way:-

1) Get Murray Walker involved somehow. Even if they just have him doing the voice-over for a technical or historical feature as part of the coverage it'll be enough. It'd be great to have him back on TV in some way though.

2) This MUST be the theme music. No if's, but's or conditions. End of.

I saw

and I guess it's nice the way they've used The Chain but it's nowhere near as good as the original.