Hammerfall Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I think might just have to buy me one now It can be a doner for PTW - or a replacement! Link to post Share on other sites
elanaiba Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Does it have the same "bug" as the Systema PTW - if you press the lower part of the bolt release, the gun locks and needs pressing on the upper part? Link to post Share on other sites
Noart Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Please take better pictures next time... *shudders* Link to post Share on other sites
crimsonfalcon07 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Buy me a new camera and I will take better pics. And no, that problem doesn't seem to be occurring yet. I did notice a couple things--you have to press in the mag release button to insert the magazine, and it won't fire if there's no ammo in the magazine unless you press in on the bolt release, unless the mag is not inserted. Just like it's supposed to Oh, and for you AEG people, you can't rack the charging handle when the gun is closed. It's a RS charging handle, so it functions like a bolt carrier when you take the gun down. Cylinder swapping is really easy, and can be done in a matter of seconds. And yes, I'm aware my carpet needs vacuuming. Doing that right now... Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Whats the price? Link to post Share on other sites
Hammerfall Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 $600 USD ballpark i think. Link to post Share on other sites
apmaman Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Want Any news on who will be selling these in the UK? Link to post Share on other sites
Hispeed1 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 $600 USD ballpark i think. Meh~that's still expensive. Lol @ the Celcius trades on the lower receiver... couldn't have they thought of an original one, it sure looks like the Systema trades. But I guess that was their point? Link to post Share on other sites
Hammerfall Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Their point should've been to make half decent looking trades, that are unique, and market this rifle as an alternative to the PTW, based on the same concept and principle and not as a 'clone' Guess that is easier said than done though. Link to post Share on other sites
Beast06 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I'm getting one and sticking a G&P/Prime body on it Gives the best of both worlds Link to post Share on other sites
Hammerfall Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I love the bitching about it's external quality that is going on, on other forums Most of us change our PTW externally anyway! Link to post Share on other sites
master_titled Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 $600 USD ballpark i think. I'm paying $650. :/ Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Thats not bad but is it cheap enough? A Systema CK is 899 if i recall correctly. If the quality of these is somewhat decent i guess a 600 dollar price tag for a complete weapon is pretty nice. Especially when you compare it to the 1500 dollar price tag of a fully assembled PTW. The ony thing that sucks is that the hopup unit is still terrible unless they've revised it. Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticMag Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I'm curious where the $600 tag came from? I haven't seen that number tossed about before? Link to post Share on other sites
Beast06 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 That's the Official RRP from Celcius Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticMag Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 *doh* So it is. Must've missed that. $600 RRP = $475 retail, perhaps? I dunno, that's idle speculation and I wouldn't count on that number, but if they are, in fact, sold below RRP then they're a bit better of a bargain, IMO. Again, speculation, but I wonder what if anything this will do for the Systema PTW and Systema's after-purchase support? Link to post Share on other sites
Hammerfall Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 ..I wonder what if anything this will do for the Systema PTW and Systema's after-purchase support? Nothing - probably. Link to post Share on other sites
Beast06 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 *doh* So it is. Must've missed that. $600 RRP = $475 retail, perhaps? Put it this way, retailers would be making a loss if they sold it at that price Link to post Share on other sites
crimsonfalcon07 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Their point should've been to make half decent looking trades, that are unique, and market this rifle as an alternative to the PTW, based on the same concept and principle and not as a 'clone' Guess that is easier said than done though. Well, to be fair, they actually ARE marketing it as an alternative to the PTW. The whole clone thing was a product of us consumers, not the company or their marketing. This actually isn't a straight up clone in the usual sense that it gets used in the airsoft world, despite the interchangeability of the parts. Magazine is redesigned to hold 120 rounds, although I think they have another one that holds more but isn't designed for the insanely fast ROF. The inner barrel is a 6.01mm bull barrel tightbore which is very high quality. Hopup is visually the same, but this gun is a lot more accurate than my PTW MAX, perhaps because it's got a stock tightbore. Piston is a reinforced polycarbonate piston designed to do a better job of handling the impact. There's a few more things I could mention, but this isn't like an ACM company just copying measurements and turning out a low quality copy based on the same design. The long delay before they released a final production version should clue you into that. Celcius claims to have started out manufacturing parts for real guns, and the engineering/reengineering job is good enough to indicate that this is probably the case. The difference in quality between this and any A&K or JG or Dboys that I've seen/reviewed so far is so huge that I can't even draw a comparison. I think it's probably unfair to call this a clone in the usual sense of the term. This is more a clone in the sense that G&P or CA are clones of the Tokyo Marui. In fact, in my opinion, this replica feels better than Classic Army any day to give you a sense of where I'm coming from. The Celcius rep I talked to says the goal was to improve on the PTW. Those of you that end up with one can make up your own minds, but I'm certainly not disappointed. The Systema users can poo poo the externals based on my pictures from my 100 dollar digital camera, but once they actually see one, they'll either be kicking themselves for spending 1500 dollars, or they'll be pleased that there's a more affordable option for mags and spare parts. The whole deal with all these people complaining about the externals is that they haven't seen anything else, and they have to find something to criticize so they can still feel special. To the best of my knowledge, these are the first actual pictures, and I should mention that I got a sample from the batch that's still having the paint reworked, hence the worn-off paint on the receiver tabs (or loop, whatever you want to call it). I usually repaint my guns, so I chose to get one that isn't actually as good externally as the final production model. If you don't like it, sorry, I just wanted to give you some proof that it's not vaporware. The receiver is made out of CNC aluminum, and not low grade stuff. I did a scratch test with my Benchmade Nimravus, as I usually do to test metal quality, and it's high grade aluminum. It was actually pretty hard to do more than scratch the paint off. Not a seamline to be seen on the entire replica, trades are nice and clean, in my opinion the different shades of grey on the receiver look very professional, and much better than the ###### matte black you usually see on replicas. The real deal isn't matte black--why would you want a replica to be? For those of you who don't like the trades, at least it's not like the horrible KWA trades, although KWA is one of the best M4A1 AEG's on the market in terms of build quality and performance. Magazine case and outer barrel appear to be anodized steel. The color of the outer barrel is identical to the WE M4 actually, and the flash-hider I got with the WE fits on the CTW and looks great. Front sight is a little more wobbly than the tight fit of the rest of the gun would suggest, and the fit is so tight on the handguards that I have yet to be able to get them off. I think I might have to use some tools or get a friend to help me. All the markings (aside from the trades obviously) are unique, and it's worth remarking that they DO have their own logo, even if it looks similar to the Systema logo. Usually you wouldn't even GET trades on a clone. I'd rather have good looking fake trades than a blank receiver, although I'd rather have a blank receiver than an ugly trademark. Dragons are awesome, however. My only real complaint thus far is that semi seems to be malfunctioning now--it shoots full auto sometimes while set on semi, and I didn't get serial number 0000000001. Link to post Share on other sites
Hammerfall Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Where is your PTW MAX review and will you be A/B'ing it against the CTW? Link to post Share on other sites
Hammerfall Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Edit: Double post.. i'll make use of it though. You refer to the CTW as having the cheek rest inserts, correct me if i'm wrong but a PTW has those too? Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The full auto when set to semi isn't a good sign. It's cheaper than a PTW but it's still a heck of a lot of money for most people. I'm interested in getting a CTW but for 600 USD i'd really be hoping that the thing works without a niggle as significant as that. A bit off topic, but have upgraded PTW been able to catch up to the bb-throwing performance of good AEG such as g36/AUG/p90 (m14 and T89 are a bit of an exception). Link to post Share on other sites
Beast06 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 A bit off topic, but have upgraded PTW been able to catch up to the bb-throwing performance of good AEG such as g36/AUG/p90 (m14 and T89 are a bit of an exception). Yep, after tackleberry's hop mod. Link to post Share on other sites
docs90 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Yep, after tackleberry's hop mod. But again this is all at a cost well above the price it costs got get a decent ak veriant or g36.m14 shooting very well Some ptw owners have already starting bitching about the celcious version adn its not even tested yet ,systema ptws are so over hyped and over priced that in real terms its almost buying one just to be part of the incrowd And i can say this as fact on grouping s and testing with a max m4 version 2008 running 365 on a blue with .25s Vs a cyma aksu fitted with a fet and lipo firing at 345 fps still using same ammo , there was very little in it against range and accuracy APART from the costing PTW max £1250 cyma aksu fet and lipo £190 .. So to be paying around £500 for the celcious it best be the carlsburg of aegs Link to post Share on other sites
Pablo Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Any news on who will be selling these in the UK? I know JD Airsoft (formerly 6Mil) are looking to get them in - dunno when though. I seem to be talking about them a lot, but I assure you I'm not on a retainer or anything, I've just been in there a lot lately (c'mon, I work just across the road!). While I've been in there, this gun has been a big topic of discussion among their customers - many of whom already own Systema's. Rather than bitching about it (as I know some PTW owners have) they're really looking forward to it - especially if they release parts seperately too. Link to post Share on other sites
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