Jump to content

Celcius PTW


raito

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 405
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I'm not surprised at the discussion that's been going on here. Looks like the main argument is: People are hailing this PTW clone to be the PTW killer, saying that after this gets released, PTW owners won't be able to have their "status" anymore. Disputes about the price vs the quality, etc. I feel that if they want to destroy the PTW market, they must displace Systema on all marketing levels. This includes of all things, the airsoft community AND the Government/contractor training and education system. I personally don't think that the market for "training" will adopt this clone over Systema but I can see folks in the airsoft communities getting these due to the ability to change bolts to adjust the firing power quickly. However in terms of quality, it doesn't seem that they're going to be able to outdo Systema in terms of precision mechanics and the overall quality of cosmetic parts(barrel, receiver, etc) but that's not to say that Systema's quality is absolutely the best. I believe the one advantage that Systema has over this clone is the fact that they've been producing their weapon for a while now, and are at a point where their engineering in more recent PTW generations has been improving. I don't think Celcius will attract same crowd that Systema PTW will, athough it will turn some people away from a PTW purchase simply due to price.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Didn't the PTW fail miserably to make it in the training weapon stakes ? hence they're now selling to private citizens ?

 

ROFL...

 

Systema continues with the PTW train of thought. They wont even acknowledge that their largest user base are the airsofters. Kind of weird considering that as far as i know, Systema made themselves what they are off of the money of the Wargaming crowd in Japan.

Link to post
Share on other sites
ROFL...

 

Systema continues with the PTW train of thought. They wont even acknowledge that their largest user base are the airsofters. Kind of weird considering that as far as i know, Systema made themselves what they are off of the money of the Wargaming crowd in Japan.

It's the illusion that you're getting more than you are. "You see this gun? ... It's no ordinary airsoft gun ... it's what the military and police use to train with." The mystique that it's being used by the elite rather than a bunch of mil-simmers is what Systema is capitalizing on. If they pitched it as "an AEG toy with some unique features but also with it's own share of flaws and it costs 3-4 times that of other high end AEGs" they'll be SOL.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Clone verus Systema.

 

Got to be honest I've had my fair share of CA's, TMs and looked at a few cheap clones. Then I sold all my rifles and bought two Systema, they are simply perfect, yet expensive.

 

As for all the negative coments about Systema owners, all I will say is if the clone version is better and it drives the price down, great hopefully everyone can get them. If it makes people better players with less plastic flying around the site, even better. As for the "we hate you because you've got one and I don't" aspect, you can make a kit car Ferrari, it looks like it but it still isn't. People buy Systema parts and gun because they want the best and closet thing to real steal. Some want to rub peoples faces in it other just want a highly accurate rifle.

 

Grow up lads, this can only be a good thing. Not looking to kick it off but the whole my guns better than your is a bit school yard for me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Clone verus Systema.

 

Got to be honest I've had my fair share of CA's, TMs and looked at a few cheap clones. Then I sold all my rifles and bought two Systema, they are simply perfect, yet expensive.

...

 

Grow up lads, this can only be a good thing. Not looking to kick it off but the whole my guns better than your is a bit school yard for me.

 

Your completely right :-) finally someone else who thinks the same :-).

Link to post
Share on other sites

aerodrew>>

 

 

Give me evidence that ANY military or police train with a PTW. It's just a sales pitch. Why on earth would an army decide to spend ~2500$ on a gun, with magazines batteries etc, that shoots small plastic bbs, has got no recoil and sounds like an advanced sewing machine? When they can just buy caseloads of blanks and use SimFire(if they have it) THAT is more realistic than any PTW. And military training is supposed to prepare soldiers for combat.

 

I be damned the day the Swedish Military buys a PTW to "train" with. Oh wait! We don't even use the M16/M4 weapons system, so why would we even consider it? Maybe I should mention that we train with Simfire and blanks=better training. And the countries that uses the M16/M4 system, hmm, the only country that could afford to buy a sufficient amount of them is the USA. I'm not sure, but I don't think that Bangladesh will consider buying PTWs :rolleyes:

 

Oh, the fact that there isn't enough PTWs in the world to supply even one armed force, is another thing. Get over it, it's all a sales pitch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Police and Military use discussion has surely been done to death. I'm not sure if even this is "fact", but most people have been taking about the PTW being given to a PMC training facility for free, hence giving them the Proffessional Training Weapon status.

 

Any AEG manufacturer could pull the same stunt, and I have wondered why they haven't.....lately it has occured to me that the majority of AEG manufacturers are more than happy to be associated with the Sport of airsoft, and are realistic enough about their product to know it is just a grown mans "toy".....

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only contact i've had with a systema PTW did not impress me at all. To be fair though, the guy that had it didn't seem to know what he was doing. ...

 

This was a couple of years ago when they first came out (so no tightbores back then i don't think) and i saw him in the field with one so being quite curious bout the PTW i chatted to him about it. He was telling me how the range was amazing and he was out ranging everone else on the field and generally how happy he was with it. Impressed with his account of the PTW's ability I asked it i could shoot it, and he graciously allowed me to have a few shots.

 

I squeezed off a few rounds and was very happy with the trigger response but totally unimpressed by the range. I brought up my TM AUG with stock barrel and systema hop rubber and shot in the same direction as before, and easily outranged the PTW by about about 10 meters. My face was one of confusion, and i figured that he didn't set his hop right but didn't feel it appropriate to tell him. His face was one of ....well......disappointment/embarassment i'm not sure, but then he told me that he was aiming high to drop shots onto the enemy....

 

Bottom line is, from that day i found first hand what a lot of other PTW owners have said. Sure it looks nice and has some new features but ultimately it's just another AEG and when the BBs fly out the front the fly much like from any other AEG. The myth that the PTW has range and accuracy superior to any other kind of AEG has been busted many times :)

 

Now that i think about it, If the Celcius is going to be a PTW but not as good I'd probably not consider spending 500 USD on it. That amount of money could build you one hell of a nice customised AEG using a base gun from one of the high end manufacturers!!

 

EDIT - I should add that being in the UK we were both firing 328 max so FPS was not a factor in the range

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the users also have explained what I had in mind too. Despite Celsius is introducing a CTW, I am to believe they won't have the resources as what Systema does and the R&D involved. Since Systema tries to improve thier product year by year, I don't think the CTW will catch up to Systema's work unless Celsius has a very strong team of engineerers and designers.

 

 

I also do not wish for other innovative companies to shut down because clone companies are stealing thier efforts and sales and that there will only be very few traditional manufacturers and lots of clone companies making economy based products of the same molds, gearbox, potmetal, plastic, steel material, and perhaps slight redesigning of parts or reconfiguration of guns rather devloping new revolutionary guns. Systema is atleast trying to make something different (*given I know they fail sometimes at delivering a perfect product, but constantly try to improve on it.)

 

One thing is certain that the quality issue will still remain the same between clones vs. original products.

 

Oh and going to Aerodrew, the Military gets a thier PTWs cheaper than what the Civilian guys pay. Thier PTWs are marked with the "for MIL/LE" instead of the M4 PTW and Systema Pheonix logo. So basically the military/le don't pay 1250 or 2500 for thier guns.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

really I thought they marked their mil le ones FRE/EBEE.. :rolleyes:

 

if we take out everyone who've ripped off other folks stuff then only marui and systema are in the market

 

The rest of your 'traditional manufacturers' have got where they are today by doing exactly the same thing as the current crop of mainland clones. Doesnt seem to have stopped them engaging in bits of R&D.

 

You can point at the failings in current mainland low cost clones all you like - unless theres evidence to suggest they've now set their production standard in stone and are going to make zero effort to improve what they're curently producing there is nothing to suggest they wont make the same incremental improvements as CA G&G ICS et al made in the journey from their early efforts to their current product.

 

In fact the evidence of progress in chinese mainland clones suggests the contrary - they are revising products, they are moving forward in terms of materials and quality of builds produced from one generation to the next, and they're showing no signs as yet of stopping.

 

RS have already shown what mainland chinese production can do when they have an RRP of 370 to 450 bucks to play with. Seeing as 'celcius' are (allegedly) making a PTW clone with a RRP of 475 in mind and given that real PTW externals are no great shake in terms of materials, and the internals are hardly rocket science then theres nowt to suggest it couldnt be done decently for 475 bucks RRP

 

Now wether it is done well is a different story - for all we know it could be an 80 buck clone in all but high profit per unit price tag, but I wouldnt go basing scepticism simply on fact the price being asked is ridiculously cheap in comparison to the original.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh and going to Aerodrew, the Military gets a thier PTWs cheaper than what the Civilian guys pay. Thier PTWs are marked with the "for MIL/LE" instead of the M4 PTW and Systema Pheonix logo. So basically the military/le don't pay 1250 or 2500 for thier guns.

 

 

So are we still maintaining the fact that military forces around the world are using PTWs to train with? Its funny, surely a company whose main selling point is its use as a proffessional training tool, would want to advertise where and who are using it? Surely its not going to be a government secret or confidential...I mean, the same unit is availible to the civilian market.

 

Plus, how many serving personnel from around the world are active on this site? Why has no one spoken up about the fact that their unit is using PTWs to train with.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

in my experience generally it follows an irate mob of systema owners with the smoke still trickling back out their asses coming along and telling us how unique the PTW is, how perfect (yet still being improved) it is, and how no one else bar the rocket scientists at systema could make the same thing for a cent less than systema sell it for..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol you may be onto something there :P

But as a systema owner im just waiting for this to come out and can only HOPE its sh#t, not because i want to put a downer on clones but i dont want to be the person with a £1000 ptw thats as good as a $500 PTW

 

And then get ripped to kingdom come like i did to my friend when he bought the CASV system about 2 weeks before the ACM version came out at a fraction of the price. But also hope the magazines and sprares will be upto par :D

Perhaps this is something to do with RSOV getting in cheap systema parts or is this unrelated?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.