poison123 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 (edited) Are we sure we're getting the wording right? The hopup collar could be the rotating bit you set the hop with, as the rest of Hopup chamber including the part the bolt actual contacts with are one part basically. Should cause the bolt to go forward a tad bit quick and reduce the overall all travel of it some. So in theory it should reduce the gas usage a bit. Edited June 13, 2008 by poison123 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wupjak Posted June 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Again, 'hop up collar' is a misnomer. The hop up unit is one piece, the adjustment dial is another. Part of the hop up unit breaks off. People have been calling it a collar, but it's just the rearmost part of the unit. From the picture I saw of that black metal unit, it's what you need. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Again, 'hop up collar' is a misnomer. The hop up unit is one piece, the adjustment dial is another. Part of the hop up unit breaks off. People have been calling it a collar, but it's just the rearmost part of the unit. From the picture I saw of that black metal unit, it's what you need. Thats what I thought Wupjak. Btw you ordering one of these? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chillindrdude Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 (edited) what would be the point of the magazine valve lock? you would have to get one for each of your mags right? and i hope that replacements parts will be made out of steel or something durable. aluminum while light and strong, is NOT durable. and will break under repeated impacts. does anyone know if g&p will be making a TRUE CQBR/RIS front set. the current "short" front set is actually a "commando" length barrel. they just came out with a "shorty/CQBR" front set, which has the CQBR length metal barrel but includes only handguards. do you know if real steel RIS handguards (like KAC or Midwest Industries) will fit? lastly, what kind of velocities will be achieveable with the PDI 324mm barrel and using duster gas? Edited June 13, 2008 by chillindrdude Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 what would be the point of the magazine valve lock? you would have to get one for each of your mags right? and i hope that replacements parts will be made out of steel or something durable. aluminum while light and strong, is NOT durable. and will break under repeated impacts. does anyone know if g&p will be making a TRUE CQBR/RIS front set. the current "short" front set is actually a "commando" length barrel. they just came out with a "shorty/CQBR" front set, which has the CQBR length metal barrel but includes only handguards. do you know if real steel RIS handguards (like KAC or Midwest Industries) will fit? lastly, what kind of velocities will be achieveable with the PDI 324mm barrel and using duster gas? I believe Wupjack was able to fit it with a RS RIS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
coladraken Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hi, got my WA M4 yesterday and I love it. No spare magazines yet tho, only the gun + G&P kit. Have been looking around for spares, but those that might have them don't have the PDI inner barrel, so I'm a bit frustrated. Seems DENTrinity might be out of stock also. They list mags instock but when I mailed them about the PDI barrel they replied: "The inner barrel will be in stock in around 1 week time. We do not have schedule yet on the magazines, sorry. " Well, first impressions: Damn, this thing really kicks *albatross* (or shoulder more likely). External looks better than expected, except the metal parts on the reciever. Yucky grey. Oh well, I think I'll paint it anyways. It seems to have enough power atleast. 111 m/s (365fps) out of the box with green gas and 0.20 (indoors). This is most likely with some hopup dialed in, gonna check more later, forgot about it. With 134a gas it was kinda *suitcasey*, around 65 m/s only. Still it should mean it will work nicely in cqb later with the PDI barrel. Still, I need to do a proper chronoing and make sure hopup is off. Magazine was leaking. Annoying but expected. Not that much either, but will do a service on it later. Strangely I couldn't get 134a in the magazine unless I did a short burst of green gas first to close the valve. Weird. A semi-major problem is that the trigger-pin is working itself loose quite often. 3-4 times just fooling around. Anyone know a way to fix it? Gun stops working and it takes some bending to realign it and put it back. Well gonna try it out on the local Sunday game and see how it feels. Still alot of stuff left to buy for it. Various G&P parts, RA-TECH chamber, more mags, perhaps the Airsoft Surgeon stuff. But it actually feels fine, love the gun so much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wupjak Posted June 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 drdude - See the original review for a walkthrough of how to attach real rails. In a nutshell, the barrel nut is not built to spec. Add a spacer (I used an AEG piston head o-ring) to correct the headspacing of the barrel nut and real accessories drop right on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hkssr20det Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 One thing I am curious about is the 140% spring included with the "Airsoft Surgeon Western Arms M4 Professional Recoil Set". How exactly would that effect the gun? The bolt return is much quicker and much more positive (I fit mine last night). Actually it returns so forcefully I took it back out almost right away. Until there are replacement nozzles I am using the buffer since it has the nylon tip, and the stock spring. Recoil was cushioned a little bit, but that might be in my head. Gun didn't noticeably shoot faster, but I was too lazy to run it through the chrono for RPM. Redwolf has the PDI 6.01s in stock. I am installing the 368 tomorrow. Hopefully my RA Tech will ship soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 The bolt return is much quicker and much more positive (I fit mine last night). Actually it returns so forcefully I took it back out almost right away. Until there are replacement nozzles I am using the buffer since it has the nylon tip, and the stock spring. Recoil was cushioned a little bit, but that might be in my head. Gun didn't noticeably shoot faster, but I was too lazy to run it through the chrono for RPM. Redwolf has the PDI 6.01s in stock. I am installing the 368 tomorrow. Hopefully my RA Tech will ship soon. You should easliy hit in to the upper 400s with green with that inner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D.O.C. Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 (edited) Hi, I bought my WA M4 a couple of weeks ago, what a beast... Of course, the flaws “out of the box” are not that funny, my mag is also leaking but the potential of this gun with the right upgrade parts is just huge! Really a new chapter in airsoft development. Yesterday, I installed the brandnew Magpul UBR stock to it. Very easy, it took only about 10 minutes, so I can also confirm that the threads on the WA buffer tube are the same as on RS. But after installation, I noticed that the ROF was lowered dramatically, sometimes the bolt even jamed in the rear position After further inspection in found out, that RS buffer tubes (at least the Magpul one) have a bit longer “inner length” then the WA one. This allows the bolt carrier to travel a bit more back, resulting in a end positon, where the hammer is pressing itself into the little gap in front of the “hammer sliding area” (don’t know how to name that area) on the bottom of the carrier. This was causing the jams and low ROF… Simple and fast solution: I attached a rubber spacer to the buffer and now it works just like the WA one. BTW, RS dust covers are a direct drop in and work very well... Actual Setup: - ARMS S.I.R. (M, first Modell) - Magpul UBR - Magpul MIAD - Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard - RS Dust Cover - G&P Knights Type Front Sight - Guarder FU Rear Sight Edited June 14, 2008 by D.O.C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 I saw something interesting the other day... It looked a lot like the hop-up chamber of the WA M4, but instead of two halves (clamshell design) it was solid all the way around, and used a front/back type assembly. All CNC-machined aluminum, and the part looks like it replaces the hop-up chamber that people seem to be breaking. The bag said "Prime" on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IronWolf Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Stunning piece D.O.C. Sale, did you see this piece at a retailer? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 D.O.C., that's awesome. I've been trying to decide whether or not I should install my UBR. Now that I know a RS buffer tube will fit I'll probably get a RS Vltor tube. I'm getting tired of buying RS parts that won't fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chillindrdude Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 just ordered my WA CQBR...probably not post worthy, but i though i'd share. WOOT! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 D.O.C. out of all the modified pics I've seen so far of the WA M4's yours is the best easily. Nice job, and thanks for the heads up on the stock. I've been looking at those once I sort out performance issues Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D.O.C. Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Thanks, thanks... I also tried a RS buffer with the same results, so I compared RS bolt carrier with the WA one and on the RS carrier, the "hammer sliding area" is much longer and not interrupted by the GBB part. That must be the reason why WA reduced bolt travelling... I must say it again, even with the issues, I love that gun!! Before I ordered one, I was searching for an SP as the ultimate gas gun but I´m now really glad to go with the WA. Compared to all the other AEGs, Classics, etc. the WA M4 is really the most realistic airsoft assault rifle ever. When it comes to the realistic internals, the WA even make my Escort M60 (please forgive me, M60 owners) look like poo... Once I have all the weak parts replaced, this will be truly the "Ultimate Airsoft M4" I have searched for all the years. Next step will be the conversion of an RS upper, lower and a external air conversion... Upcoming upgrades: - G&P Steel Outer Barrel - G&P Reinforced Hammer - G&P Valve Lock - RA Tech or Prime(?) CNC HU Chamber - Norgon Ambicatch - K&N Anti Roll Pins - K&N Takedown Pins - Custom 6.03 Prometheus Inner Barrel - Custom Steel made Bolt Catch - some non leaking spare mags ( )... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vtb Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Got an issue with mine: Shot been fired, bolt carrier travels back (and forward after it hits the shoulder) but blowback camber stays in place - and as the result no BB's reloaded.... Any ideas? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chillindrdude Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Next step will be the conversion of an RS upper, lower and a external air conversion... why ruin such as nice looking gun with an unrealistic coiled air hose? btw, you've got a pm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Got an issue with mine: Shot been fired, bolt carrier travels back (and forward after it hits the shoulder) but blowback camber stays in place - and as the result no BB's reloaded.... Any ideas? Hows the lube? If not that check the internals on the bolt carrier and make sure the spring isn't hosed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harvahammas Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 why ruin such as nice looking gun with an unrealistic coiled air hose? btw, you've got a pm GG is expensive comparing to co2 or HPA, No cooling issues when using HPA, cheaper mags(?), more reliable etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D.O.C. Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 why ruin such as nice looking gun with an unrealistic coiled air hose? btw, you've got a pm Since I have played many times with my GBB M60, I have really no problem with the coiled hose and if you choose the QD connection points cleverly, nothing is visible once the gun is disconnected. For me, the pros clearly outweight the cons: Cons: - unrealistic, yes I know... - a bit less comfortable due the permanent connection but much less then I expected before - you have to carry a (small) backpack or an additional pouch for the Co2 tank Pros: - very large amount of gas - no added silicone oil - possibility to shoot longer bursts with more consistency - possibility to use regular AEG mags (if the conversion works the way I want it...) - and last but not least, its much more cheaper then green, Hfc134 or even propane... Also, when I use a modified RS (heavier) bolt carrier with a RS recoil spring, I think I need the extra power of Co2 and a possibility to adjust the pressure in very small steps to achieve my goal, a 100% RS recoil... And BTW, on this gun, I am planing to hide the hose inside the sling with QD connections but that is depending on how I am able to route the hose inside the lower... maybe, theres no room and I have to route it through the grip, dont know ATM. but this is more a "long term" project, for the first time I´ll stay with the WA mags and try to add more RS parts (upper, lower...) to enhance the durability. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Payne06 Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 Well how much do you reckon the MBK's that are suppossed to come out for these will cost? Heck, the MBK's for the WA pistols were as much as the guns themselves.... I sure the ones comming out for these won't be like that... $500+ for a MBK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 I also tried a RS buffer with the same results, so I compared RS bolt carrier with the WA one and on the RS carrier, the "hammer sliding area" is much longer and not interrupted by the GBB part. That must be the reason why WA reduced bolt travelling... Do you know if the RS buffer tube you tried out mil-spec or civie-spec? Just want to be sure. I know Babooey tried his buffer tube but found the threads on the tube didn't match that of the gun. I'm wondering if it's because he had a civie-spec'ed tube. Upcoming upgrades: - G&P Steel Outer Barrel - G&P Reinforced Hammer - G&P Valve Lock - RA Tech or Prime(?) CNC HU Chamber - Norgon Ambicatch - K&N Anti Roll Pins - K&N Takedown Pins - Custom 6.03 Prometheus Inner Barrel - Custom Steel made Bolt Catch - some non leaking spare mags ( )... Just so you know, the K&N Trigger and Hammer pins won't work, and ambi-selectors won't work either. That's because the WA M4's lower receiver is externally slightly slimmer than a real steel one. That might mean that some of your other planned RS parts may not work either. Something to keep in mind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wupjak Posted June 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 RA Tech are sending me a hop unit for T&E. I will document my observations and post them as a separate piece. Thread in external air conversion should happen on mine in the next few weeks. Mike (proprietor of righthookfabrication.com and one of my co-captains) will be doing the project. If there's interest I'll see what he might want for an external kit. Just need to hand off the magazine and probably buy him a big ole steak to get the project underway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Korppi Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 Good to hear. It's the mags that kill my intrest. With that kit, the question of getting another escort or wa is getting harder and harder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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