Wupjak Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Good thing I bought the first generation model so that I could guinea pig their piece of ###### bolt stop and then they could QC it after the fact. Good job, Classic Army. I mean, WA. =/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Hold on a second here. 360 RPM using unknown conventionnal gas with WA mag. WITH WA MAG. That's the important bit. I'm sure with the Inokatsu issued mags, there should be no problem. After all, the youtube videos we've all seen a thousand times clearly show that the MTWs perform correctly. I doubt that Inokatsu would make vids of their MTWs boasting respectable RPMs, only to release poor performing production models... come on! As for trades, maybe there are two versions: US with no trades, and rest of the world. If Inokatsu showed in previous pics receivers with trades, then that's it. They won't show cool stuff and finally whip it off our noses for the final production models. That's just bad marketing. And we're talking about Inokatsu here. The guys that put naked gals on their adds to sell AEGs. They know their stuff . Then again, I may be spilling ###### faster than a MG, we'll be fixed in a couple o' weeks . well don't shoot the messanger, Read the thread at Systema ptw, next page. That person self explain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arion Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 (edited) By the way Wupjak, what's your average gas consumption with you WA M4? 1 liter of gas = how many mags filled? I know this has been more or else discussed already (something like 10 mags per can o' gas I think), but does that change with all the tinkering made on a WA M4? And does it vary depending on gas type? Because that's really the thing that makes me wait for the Inokatsu is the CO2 mags... I just don't have that much money to put into gas cans (they're at something like 17 euros where I am ). Kullwarrior: sorry, don't have access to that Forum. I didn't shoot the messenger, sorry if it looked like it. I was only saying that we must be careful on his choice of words. Could you copy/paste what that person said afterwards? Thanks. Edited August 12, 2008 by Arion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Ya know one thing I find funny about all the problems etc is...I have a Maruzen Scorp, and my buddy has the mp5k. After 1 simple upgrade to each of them they shoot insanely well on GG/Propane. They both blow out their 30/50 round mags in about 1.5 s. Both are fairly accurate and shoot pretty hard for having such insanely short barrels. And neither of us have had a single problem with our mags, and we've both shot thousands of rounds through them. Makes you wonder why these guys can't get it write on fairly simple ideas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Sorry about put you guys waiting so long, but I have to verify some of the info before I posted. Has anyone figured out how many mags you can get out of one Co2 cartridge? No any further info about the Co2 version for now, but I heard about they may produce the mags with only 30 round capacity. 360RPM? the vid I think contradicts it. oh well, at least we know GBB primary weapon aint arriving yet. Yes, I think they using zinc aolly matel bolt carrier for the video instead steel bolt carrier. That is exactly why so many people felt disappointed in the military show. After september first, I believe some guys will issue their "open-box" report and then I will ask the permission to post here Smile And i wonder why this should be to hot for US custom when you guys in the states could legally own real weapons as many as you want but if you try to get some bb shooting airsoft gun then it is a big no no.. It even don`t have any trades? I'm a Taiwanese and study in the U.S. right now, and just like you, I want to build up my "final M4" (if there is really existBig%20smile) with Vltor VIS, Magpul grip, Aimpoint Micro T1, and even the helmet cam VIO POV.1 for CQB corner shot, then I will bring it back to Taiwan and kick some skinny a$$ Wink However, after I saw the MTW lower, I start thinking the U.S. Custom may confused that with firearm or some of the real parts are against ITAR so I end up in fed prison. ( I checked every official website to make sure I'm far away from ITAR ) Unlike Systema PTW, it is more easier to explain that I have no intention to smuggle real firearm parts by showing them the gear box ( I consider that milled VIS is no longer to use for real steel). Either Systema or INO, I believe the U.S. Custom won't give me an easy time Dead Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wupjak Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Ya know one thing I find funny about all the problems etc is...I have a Maruzen Scorp, and my buddy has the mp5k. After 1 simple upgrade to each of them they shoot insanely well on GG/Propane. Those designs have been around for what, 8 years? 6? Something like that. It'll get ironed out, I just don't like being the one that gets boned while these guys make their money and make 'new' versions that look like ###### with better internals. I know, don't be a first adopter if you don't like it. Well, sue me for complaining a bit. I put a bunch of effort into the review and I get to kvetch a bit if I want to. Okay, all better. I didn't really keep track of gas consumption. Gas use did not change in my book. I didn't do anything to recoil spring, etc., only barrel length. 10 fills per can of propane sounds about right. Maybe a bit more than that, actually. Doesn't matter, it'll be an HPA powered magazine here later today. I'm not dropping a G on 8 mags. This will be another medium range rifle to take the place of my CA SA58 carbine. Maybe. If it doesn't eat more of its own guts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TooTall Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Finally got the Magpul RS MIAD in! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chrissyg Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Very nice TooTall Got my MIAD and PTS stock on the way too. Then all I need is some madbull bamboo rail covers and a shorty M203 and I'm done. Wierdly enough, speaking of gas consumption I got around 20 mags from a 700ml can of Abbey Ultra, and using that (and having been through 2 cans of it) there is no noticeable wear on the internals at all.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lee1hy Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Any news PGC valve lock? http://www.pgc.com.hk/index1.html "after using this product, no need to change other settings and you can really enjoy full auto with total of 57 shots and motion of LOCK BOLT. Original WA kit with problem and thus caused broken of gun, However, using our product which caused no problem even the adoption of 134A, E11000, ET1600 and ET2200. We recommend ET1000 and ET1600 for our product. " Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Any news PGC valve lock? http://www.pgc.com.hk/index1.html "after using this product, no need to change other settings and you can really enjoy full auto with total of 57 shots and motion of LOCK BOLT. Original WA kit with problem and thus caused broken of gun, However, using our product which caused no problem even the adoption of 134A, E11000, ET1600 and ET2200. We recommend ET1000 and ET1600 for our product. " So wait they are not saying using this "valve lock" will make the weapon safe to shoot on GG/Propane........sure......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pedobear Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 (edited) Aside from the bolt stop and hopup breaking (from misfeeds) I don't see why you couldn't run propane or GG. I have yet to hear about someone's bolt/nozzle/trigger grouping exploding. Leaky mags should be a relatively easy fix too. Edited August 12, 2008 by Pedobear Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I just watched Prime's video again of their fullauto with the valve lock, and there is no f'ing way that is 50 rounds. That looked like about 30, unless their valve lock now causes the bolt to double in effective speed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arion Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Kullwarrior, you just completely ruined my dreams of having a viable skirmishable M4 GBB. I was really heavily relying on the Inokatsu alternative. I just hope they'll fix the crappy RPM for its release ... Just a question: will the CO2 version come out at the same time than the GBB? And by the way, what's wrong with an alloy zinc metal bolt? Too fragile for intense blow back action? I really just wish I won't have to resort to spending an insane amount of money on a WA M4, mags, reinforced internals and a metal body!!! FFS!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Kullwarrior, you just completely ruined my dreams of having a viable skirmishable M4 GBB. I was really heavily relying on the Inokatsu alternative. I just hope they'll fix the crappy RPM for its release ... Just a question: will the CO2 version come out at the same time than the GBB? And by the way, what's wrong with an alloy zinc metal bolt? Too fragile for intense blow back action? I really just wish I won't have to resort to spending an insane amount of money on a WA M4, mags, reinforced internals and a metal body!!! FFS!!! Zinc is a very malleable(sp?) metal. Its not great for slamming against another piece of metal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IBICO Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Anyone heard more about this one? http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airs...tail?newsID=825 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pedobear Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Kullwarrior, you just completely ruined my dreams of having a viable skirmishable M4 GBB. I was really heavily relying on the Inokatsu alternative. I just hope they'll fix the crappy RPM for its release ... Just a question: will the CO2 version come out at the same time than the GBB? And by the way, what's wrong with an alloy zinc metal bolt? Too fragile for intense blow back action? I really just wish I won't have to resort to spending an insane amount of money on a WA M4, mags, reinforced internals and a metal body!!! FFS!!! Lets wait until they're actually released before jumping to conclusions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Kullwarrior, you just completely ruined my dreams of having a viable skirmishable M4 GBB. I was really heavily relying on the Inokatsu alternative. I just hope they'll fix the crappy RPM for its release ... Just a question: will the CO2 version come out at the same time than the GBB? And by the way, what's wrong with an alloy zinc metal bolt? Too fragile for intense blow back action? I really just wish I won't have to resort to spending an insane amount of money on a WA M4, mags, reinforced internals and a metal body!!! FFS!!! Hey I was hoping the same, Lets wait until they're actually released before jumping to conclusions. Good idea, but there's reason to doubt the quality of Inokatsu better than WAs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lee1hy Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 (edited) So wait they are not saying using this "valve lock" will make the weapon safe to shoot on GG/Propane........sure......... did you see clip? THIS IS valve lock ON magazine parts http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=13xDBg3-ENQ Edited August 13, 2008 by lee1hy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 did you see clip? THIS IS valve lock ON magazine parts http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=13xDBg3-ENQ Sorry I'm still not buying it till I hear a real review from someone who's been working on it. I just find it hard to believe that this will: A) Make it safe to shoot on GG/Propane Gives a 100% increase in fireable rounds in F/A Seriously....as much as WA screwed the pooch on other aspects of this, can you really tell me they didn't even look at this during their development at all? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Seriously....as much as WA screwed the pooch on other aspects of this, can you really tell me they didn't even look at this during their development at all? Something (from back of my head) tells me they did but as spending 1 mil and wasting it wasnt much choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pedobear Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Is anyone here going to take the leap of faith and get the Inokatsu on release? I've got my fingers crossed for the Ino, but I'm going to wait for some reviews first. From what people are saying though, they were shooting the demo gun using conventional gas with the heavy bolt designed for c02? Seems like a bad way to reveal the MTW. I still have hope though, if not I'm just gonna buy a WA and be done with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Is anyone here going to take the leap of faith and get the Inokatsu on release? I've got my fingers crossed for the Ino, but I'm going to wait for some reviews first. From what people are saying though, they were shooting the demo gun using conventional gas with the heavy bolt designed for c02? Seems like a bad way to reveal the MTW. I still have hope though, if not I'm just gonna buy a WA and be done with it. *cough* You could always take the leap of faith. Seeing how some of us already invested a fair amount in our WAs on the leap of faith path. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pedobear Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I could... The thought is a little scary though We'll see at the end of the month Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 LOL... I'm with Poison and Wupjack on this. I've done my part being someone else's guinea pig. When it comes to the Ino I'll let another take that chance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 (edited) Is anyone here going to take the leap of faith and get the Inokatsu on release? I've got my fingers crossed for the Ino, but I'm going to wait for some reviews first. From what people are saying though, they were shooting the demo gun using conventional gas with the heavy bolt designed for c02? Seems like a bad way to reveal the MTW. I still have hope though, if not I'm just gonna buy a WA and be done with it. If the MSRP of $585 USD turns out to be true, yeah, I'm taking a leap of faith and ordering one. Still not sure if I'll get the conventional gas version or the CO2 version though. If the CO2 version can be dialed down to under 400 fps and the mags are much cheaper than WA gas mags than I'll go for the CO2 version. Otherwise I'll go for the conventional gas version. Either way though I'm taking the leap of faith and pre-ordering one as soon as they become available on Redwolf or Airsoft Global. I agree with you about the bad decision on the demo gun though. Why on earth would Inokatsu demo the version with the heavy CO2 bolt set but using standard WA conventional gas mags with it? Doesn't make much sense to me, but I still think they'll pull this one off quite nicely. I've got faith in Inokatsu because as far as I know they've never made a single bad product. Yeah, the generic Chinese made gearboxes that they throw in their AEG shells aren't very good, but as far as in house products go I don't think Inokatsu has ever made anything that wouldn't be considered of excellent quality. I've never owned or even shot a WA M4, but I've wanted one since they came out. I was turned off by the all plastic construction and the weak hopup collar and bolt catch though, so hopefully the INO will be just what I've been hoping for. Full metal externals (very nice ones at that!), a metal hopup collar, and hopefully a stronger bolt catch... all for the same price as a stock WA M4. Assuming that it comes with a mag that is (which it's starting to sound like it may not). Even if it doesn't come with a mag though and you have to buy one separately that's just like getting a WA M4 and paying an extra $100 for it to have full metal construction with reinforced internals, which is still a good deal as far as I'm concerned So yeah, I'll be taking the leap of faith and pre-ordering one. I'll have about $1k in my bank account within the next week so then it'll just be a matter of waiting for a pre-order to become available. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed Edited August 13, 2008 by Jin15 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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