Western Arms M4 CQB-R

[coladraken]

I received my RA-TECH chamber on monday but was waiting for my new inner barrel to arrive. Since that one won't get here before the weekend I went ahead and tried to install the chamber anyway, because I also received a few extra magazines (none leaking) to have fun with this weekend game.

 

It took awhile to take it apart and put it together again, but mostly because it always takes longer the first time.

 

The outer barrel is rather strange to take a part at first, but I managed to do it. Then the old chamber was sitting a bit tight in the upper receiver so that took awhile too, to realize that there were no hidden screws or something. Finally it just popped out. The tiny hopup spring sits on the top of the part of the chamber that sits inside the upper receiver, remember to be careful with it.

 

Taking apart the chamber was odd too. Tried to remove the adjustment ring, but that just didn't work but since the original hopup is also split (not even a single screw to keep it together like the RA-TECH one) one can separate it and pull it apart and away from the inner barrel.

 

I recommend you to take a close look at the original chamber and look at the o-ring thats located where the bb's goes in. This ring is the major *badgeress* with the whole operation, especially since I didn't know how it actually was mounted originally. I forgot to check it and since my original chamber was broke this ring was half-way outside anyways.

 

As far as I can tell it should be put around the end of the hopup rubber then it will be fixated by the chamber when put togheter. But it's a pain to put together since it just wants to pop off the rubber and when putting the chamber togheter it's a bit hard to get a proper fit. Still, after a few tries it worked. Still not entirely convinced I put it together correctly, but couldn't see any other way.

 

I did reassemble the barrel without the o-ring the first time, but chronoing it showed a problem (around 20m/s less). Also bb's didn't shoot good at all, some just rolled out of the barrel. After finally getting that stupid o-ring in place it now chronos as it did originally and seem to shoot well to. Can't try it outdoors yet so I'll have to wait to know for sure it works. There's possibly still some feed problems with it and I'm gonna have another look at it later today for more tests. Didn't have enough time yesterday.

 

If anyone could take a picture of how the o-ring sits in the original chamber that would be really nice.

[amateurstuntman]

My RA tech hop unit arrived today.

 

3 days after I paid for it!

 

I still don't have an M4 though.

[chillindrdude]

if someone could do a picture by picture process of the front barrel/hopup dissassembly, i would greatly appreciate it.

 

this one of my favorite threads on arnies right now....the knowledge gained is awesome!

[BaBaBooey]

Here's some information from RA-Tech regarding installation:

 

http://www.taf-inc.com/discuz/viewthread.p...;extra=page%3D1

[poison123]

So I'm feeling like a idiot...but how the hell do you initially pull apart the G&P RIS setup? I can't seem to get it to pull apart at all.

[coladraken]

Nice find BaBaBooey, thanks. Seems like I put the o-ring in correctly then.

 

chillindrdude: I'll see if I can take a few photos later for reference. You have some info in the link from BaBaBooey, but I did not remove the outer barrel like they did. I unscrewed the middle part so it split. Short description:

Remove RIS upper and lower part.

Remove one tiny hex in the middle part of the barrel.

I then sat with the receiver in between my knees and held onto the upper part of the barrel pointing up. Used pliers (Waterpump pliers) to grip the middle part and then I could turn it lose. (I need to confirm but sitting like this, remove counterclockwise I think) I kept the upper part of the barrel and lower part of the gun still in same position, mostly because of the gaspipe hindering otherwise.

Finally the outer barrel is completly loose. The middlepart was still attached to the upper part and I kept it there. Easier to reassemble.

 

Was kinda scary first time, but not that difficult. Mostly wich way to rotate it that matters. Gonna check it later.

 

So I'm feeling like a idiot...but how the hell do you initially pull apart the G&P RIS setup? I can't seem to get it to pull apart at all.

 

Don't have it in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the bottom should just release when pulling the delta ring (Like the WA). The upper part is secured with a screw on top. Might still be a pain in the *albatross* to remove. When I was fooling around with it before (haven't mounted it yet) I loosened the front sight, wich makes it easier to remove everything. Only a small hex underneath.

[poison123]

Let me rephrase what I said. I had the hopup dialed too much....barely over dead center and that was what was causing the jams. Ran about 5 mags with GG through it and did not see any wear on the hopup collar and no apparent wear on the bolt so far. Overall I'm happy with the Ratech hopup, well see how it handles prolonged use, but I doubt we'll see any problems. Now if we could just get someone to make a better bolt...and magazines that don't suck we should be good to go.

Edited June 26, 2008 by poison123

[coladraken]

Bah, it seems I was a bit wrong above (btw I can't find any edit button on old post), short description to remove outer barrel with picsies!

 

Remove RIS.

 

Remove the tiny hex located on the "middle" part of the outer barrel. On the picture it's near the plier.

 

Hold both the base of the gun and the top of the barrel and get a good grip with pliers.

 

Turn CLOCKWISE, or look at the picture below, where I would move pliers towards myself to loosen it.

 

 

After several turns it will loose from the bottom part of the barrel as seen below.

 

 

After this you only need to remove the delta ring and so forth... look at the instructions posted above somewhere.

 

 

Edit addition: It's probably wise to remove magazine first.. which I forgot of course, doh!

 

Another edit after some testing: Mine doesn't shoot well. Not sure why, but it seems bb's get stuck to hard. That o-ring of mine is cursed. Well time to take it apart again I guess.

Edited June 26, 2008 by coladraken

[BaBaBooey]

So I'm feeling like a idiot...but how the hell do you initially pull apart the G&P RIS setup? I can't seem to get it to pull apart at all.

 

I think I know what you're talking about...G&P front ends are notorious for not being manufactured correctly making the two halves very difficult to remove (assuming you unscrewed the lock on the top half). Try removing the front sight and end cap and see if that helps...pry it apart gently, don't force it or you might damage your delta ring/barrel nut.

 

Also, those installation instructions were posted by RA-Tech, not mine

[coladraken]

Hmm.. it went from bad to worse. Now it doesn't fire the bb's out of the barrel, they mostly just roll out.

 

After several checks I still don't know what the problem is. Not really blaming the new chamber yet, it did at least work fairly ok yesterday. I did notice some strangeness then but it was like one missfire out of ten or more shots which I was going to look at today. Now it's like one in twenty that works, barely.

 

Tried reassembling it several times. With more or less hop up. Different magazines. Different outer barrel. Added plenty of silicone oil in the gun.

 

Possible causes might be slightly damaged hop up rubber. It has a slight jack from when the original chamber broke before and the bolt happily smashed in it. Doesn't really explain why it worked yesterday though.

 

Another suspect is the bolt/plunger (or whatever the plastic parts in the bolt are called). The plunger might be damaged somehow. The bolt does cycle and feed ok and it seem to sit tight against the chamber which seem to indicate too little gas getting into the barrel. Might be just a leak though.

 

It's also possible the chamber is too far away from the bolt so the plunger doesn't get that perfect fit against the BB, thereby disabling WA's gas system.

 

Still hate that damn o-ring in the hop-up. I find the design rather crappy. I guess I'm too used to the easy Marui M4 hop up.

 

Don't hate the gun yet, but I'm a bit disappointed in general now.

 

On another topic, tried one new magazine and that one was rather tight to load into the gun. Original slides in easily.

[chillindrdude]

sometimes the bolt doesn't close into battery after inserting an empty mag...is this normal?

[coladraken]

Well, it looks like my problem is with the plunger. Or the chamber. Anyways the BB goes too far inside. Only when manually loading a BB in chamber it shoots ok. When it self load after a shot it goes too far inside which really fcks with WA's gas system. I just remembered how easy this was to check when writing my earlier post. Just remove the magazine and look inside at the bolt (with lots of light) and slightly move the bolt back and forward to see the plunger move (requires a BB chambered).

 

Well, at least I know whats going on now. Will investigate further tomorrow.

 

 

sometimes the bolt doesn't close into battery after inserting an empty mag...is this normal?

 

Can you be more specific? You do know of the bolt hold open feature? The bolt should stay open if the magazine is empty. Push the bolt release on the left side (uppermost button) to release the bolt.

This also applies when you use the charging handle, but it locks less often then. Don't worry though, this feature is one of the first things to break.

[chillindrdude]

from a bolt open position. i insert an empty mag, when i hit the bolt stop, the bolt does not close all the way with the empty mag in...is this normal? when the mag is loaded, this doesn't not happen

[uscmCorps]

As seen on AirsoftNews, Zeke just announced that they're also making metal bodies for our WA M4:

 

[ratech]

Well, it looks like my problem is with the plunger. Or the chamber. Anyways the BB goes too far inside. Only when manually loading a BB in chamber it shoots ok. When it self load after a shot it goes too far inside which really fcks with WA's gas system. I just remembered how easy this was to check when writing my earlier post. Just remove the magazine and look inside at the bolt (with lots of light) and slightly move the bolt back and forward to see the plunger move (requires a BB chambered).

 

Well, at least I know whats going on now. Will investigate further tomorrow.

 

 

 

According to our knowledge, it is due to the defect of WA design, i.e. the BB's holding rubber cannot hold the BBs properly. You can try: 1) clean up any residual oil within the rubber, 2) change at stronger spring part # 45 is consumable, 3) you weaken the O-ring just outside the rubber when you try exchange it

We've heard that WA will re-produce the part # 45 rubber without a distal o-ring that all

[poison123]

As seen on AirsoftNews, Zeke just announced that they're also making metal bodies for our WA M4:

 

 

If the top rails are proper spec I might buy one, but other than that I don't see a point at this time in replacing the body. The stock one is actually holding up pretty well.

[coladraken]

from a bolt open position. i insert an empty mag, when i hit the bolt stop, the bolt does not close all the way with the empty mag in...is this normal? when the mag is loaded, this doesn't not happen

No I don't think that is normal. Maybe the bolt get stuck at the bb-follower thingy that pushes the bb's up for some reason? Haven't seen this behavior on mine, but only used two different magazines so far. Try to see where it gets stuck, it might be something that's misaligned.

 

According to our knowledge, it is due to the defect of WA design, i.e. the BB's holding rubber cannot hold the BBs properly. You can try: 1) clean up any residual oil within the rubber, 2) change at stronger spring part # 45 is consumable, 3) you weaken the O-ring just outside the rubber when you try exchange it

We've heard that WA will re-produce the part # 45 rubber without a distal o-ring that all

Thanks for the info, it's very interesting. I'll definitely get a new hop up rubber when I get a chance. Meanwhile I'll try to get it working later today. I have some ideas I want to try, now that I know what the problem is. Western Arms is a harsh mistress, but then again, I already knew that. At least this gun is worth it.

 

.... The stock one is actually holding up pretty well.

I agree. I was actually surprised how nice the whole gun is, when I mostly heard negative things. Sure, some plastic parts just shouldn't exist, like the flash hider, but the body is quite ok. I might change it later for a metal one with RS specs, maybe get RS RAS or stocks, but I'm definitely not in a hurry now. Still, it's interesting to see this much support for the WA M4, which is promising for more future parts.

[Elquemira]

Any body tried to do the cold test? Put the mag into the freezer for 30 minutes, and then fire the gun. It would be interesting in order to see how it performs in cold conditions (for me it would be OK if it stands 6 semi shots)

[poison123]

All I gotta say guys is if the metal receivers cost more than $390 then they can sit on them and rotate. My RS spikes lower, and Larue Upper cost that and there's no way in hell they could justify to me that a airsoft version can cost more.

[Apotheothenai]

According to our knowledge, it is due to the defect of WA design, i.e. the BB's holding rubber cannot hold the BBs properly. You can try: 1) clean up any residual oil within the rubber, 2) change at stronger spring part # 45 is consumable, 3) you weaken the O-ring just outside the rubber when you try exchange it

We've heard that WA will re-produce the part # 45 rubber without a distal o-ring that all

 

ratech, how many shots did you fire before your rubber went bad? What do you mean when you say "weaken the O-ring"? thx

[shinhk]

from a bolt open position. i insert an empty mag, when i hit the bolt stop, the bolt does not close all the way with the empty mag in...is this normal? when the mag is loaded, this doesn't not happen

Mine does that once a while when i'm "fooling around". The spring isn't REALLY strong so it doesn't quite have enough force to push the bolt forward past the bb assist knob thingy in the magazine. If you take out the mag the bolt should go forward. It happens, but i don't consider it a "flaw" because it works when there's bb's loaded which is the main thing.

[chillindrdude]

thanks for answering my questions...the only advantages for a metal body is so that i can truly secure the buffer tube and front end/delta ring. torquing down those parts on plastic threads = stripped threads.

 

the trademarks are also alittle thin and shallow IMHO.

 

i really like this gun...even on duster gas. i'm looking forward to saving my money and getting the necessary reinforced parts to use green gas.

 

and also MORE mags!

 

 

[poison123]

Just a heads up. I'm selling mine/parting it out on the F/S forum.....if you want spare mags etc and I can get the majority spoken for I'll part it all.

 

Don't worry my main reason for selling is I just don't have the time for airsoft much anymore and I want to work on my RS rifles.

[hitmanNo2]

poison, the Zeke receivers are supposedly going to cost around $260.

[poison123]

poison, the Zeke receivers are supposedly going to cost around $260.

 

 

Interesting. Thats pretty cheap, considering most MBKs for WA 1911s are usually that much if not more.