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Western Arms M4 CQB-R


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Can you post a link for us? I heard some things (nothing 100% reliable) so I'd definitely like to see what other's have heard about this.

 

 

I got it on PM.. Have not got any signal that I could post what he said to me. They have some nice parts for the WA coming just now. Still waiting for the prices for his parts.

 

I let you know off course when I know more.

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hmm 30 rounders could poetitally make a 2 mags out of one charge....

With some additional changes it would pretty much guarantee that. But most importantly is the fact that a 30 round mag would complete the "realism" factor for the WA M4. After all, that's the main reason most of us decided to purchase it in the first place.

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There's a whole thread dedicated to the inokatsu release...but i'm ranting on this one because it's the western arms m4 review thread and quite honestly i'm sick and tired of people who DON'T have one complaining and whining saying "the wam4 am suckier, i'm gonna get the inokatsu one because it's am better than you person are think" (grammar incorrect on purpose). To those of you who said "i'm not going to spend $600 on a western arms"...are you willing to spend $830 (prob more) on an inokatsu? I appreciate wupjak creating this thread, and i bought this gun knowing that i'd probably have to upgrade parts/replace parts even if i used 134. This gun isn't meant for people who don't have supportable income ;)

 

 

+1 A BIG mahalo shinhk!

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So they raised the price due to demand (hyped up) and they're no longer saying it's co2 compatible? Basically it's a $730 gamble whether it will be better than the wa or not. Those who bought the western arms one. I could care less if everything was made out of metal and looked and felt like the best gun in the world if it isn't reliable. They posted flyers with prices on them and if they change any of those prices they're a bunch of *fruit pies*! The mtw isn't a "better" system over the wam4. The wam4 was built around 134a and not really meant to be a skirmish piece. The mtw on the other hand is built around green and meant to skirmish which obviously will need more reinforced parts. At least i know if i buy a wam4 and use just 134a...it works. The reinforced parts i'm buying to upgrade the gun to fire using green is being put on a gun...that works. I too was once hyped up about the inokatsu one as well... but when rumors started flying around about quality, when "high quality marketing" pics showed up instead of close up pics of parts, when parts are seen just thrown in a box, when delays are made, when prices are raised, when no mag is released with the gn, when it's no longer co2 (as advertised), when an ugly *albatross* walkman logo is put to make the box flashy...kind of made me lose interest in it.

 

 

They're not even releasing the gun with a mag...and no one knows how much the price for the co2 ones will be either.

------------------------------------------------------

There's a whole thread dedicated to the inokatsu release...but i'm ranting on this one because it's the western arms m4 review thread and quite honestly i'm sick and tired of people who DON'T have one complaining and whining saying "the wam4 am suckier, i'm gonna get the inokatsu one because it's am better than you person are think" (grammar incorrect on purpose). To those of you who said "i'm not going to spend $600 on a western arms"...are you willing to spend $830 (prob more) on an inokatsu? I appreciate wupjak creating this thread, and i bought this gun knowing that i'd probably have to upgrade parts/replace parts even if i used 134. This gun isn't meant for people who don't have supportable income ;)

 

Sorry to quote the whole thing, but I'm in agreement with almost everything you've wrote.....almost.

 

I don't agree that the WA M4 was never intended as a skirmish rifle. If it were intended as a show piece only, then there are far more exciting and (IMHO) better products on the market....blank firing rifles with muzzle flash and recoil, which are cheaper and less prone to damage.

 

I've heard the statement a few times, about the rifle not being for "play"....but then I really wonder what its purpose is?

 

In reality, the WA is a great piece of kit, well thought out in terms of its operation, the only thing letting it down are the materials. So its obvious a company like Inokatsu will come along and make a "better" rifle, because all they have to do is improve the material selection....thats it!

 

In the UK, I'd probably only use 134a gas, as I don't need any higher fps than about 300 - 350fps, and if the rifle could be guaranteed to work and stick together with 134a gas then I would consider buying another.....is this the case?

 

Anyway, like I said, I agree with what you've said, and now that the statement from SAA has come out, and Inokatsu seem to have gone back on some of their "promises", I think this unit is Vapourware until it hits the shelves....if ever.

 

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I don't agree that the WA M4 was never intended as a skirmish rifle. If it were intended as a show piece only, then there are far more exciting and (IMHO) better products on the market....blank firing rifles with muzzle flash and recoil, which are cheaper and less prone to damage.

Hmm...that makes sense. I guess what i was thinking was that people complain saying that it breaks when they use green gas in it. I've only used 134 shooting at 300fps and to me that was fine. I have yet to skirmish with it yet because we haven't had any real games that i can play with it at yet. What I SHOULD have said is that out of the box it's "usable" but not necessarily playable with green gas and cheap *albatross* bb's. The materials aren't the greatest but what people fail to understand is that the cost is high due to research and development. Western arms did a great job designing the blowback system...however what they failed to do was make sure it was reliable. Although if you think back to practically every western arms gun out there...none of them really lasted stock w/o needing to replace parts with reinforced ones so why would the wam4 be any diff? :)

 

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okay...um...what? freakin a$$ inokatsu. now they're saying $800??? and STILL w/o a mag? ahem...stating that it's not going to be co2 compatible makes me wonder something. if their parts are sooooo reinforced and "awesome-o" then why can't the system they're releasing work with co2? does that mean they're going to have to make ANOTHER one that's MORE reinforced? which means the people who buy the "gas" version (IIRC...co2 is gas too...isn't it?) aren't getting the best inokatsu has to offer. AND...they're going to be paying $800 for it too! HA! Inokatsu... you're starting to look more and more like a *cherry fruit pie* dumbA55 company. They say it's available to order so i'm sure the usual companies like redwolf will be getting them at the end of august which is when they said it was going to be released. Oh wait what? It's past august? *slaps face*

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I have spent a few hours now reading through all the posts in this thread and am left with just a couple of questions, it would be great if some of you WAM4 users could help me find the answers.

 

1) Does anyone know what the FPS output is with a full carbine length (360ish mm i think) inner barrel on Abbey Ultra gas?

2) What could I expect the life of the stock internals to be on Ultra Gas?

3) If the bolt stop and hop are the first parts to go, what is the best aftermarket hop replacement? and is the G&P replacement bolt stop up to the job?

 

Oh and if anyone knows of the cheapest place to buy one of these in the UK that would be great to know too : )

 

P.S. Thank you to all who have contributed to an informative thread with good quality (in the main :)) posting.

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I have spent a few hours now reading through all the posts in this thread and am left with just a couple of questions, it would be great if some of you WAM4 users could help me find the answers.

 

1) Does anyone know what the FPS output is with a full carbine length (360ish mm i think) inner barrel on Abbey Ultra gas?

2) What could I expect the life of the stock internals to be on Ultra Gas?

3) If the bolt stop and hop are the first parts to go, what is the best aftermarket hop replacement? and is the G&P replacement bolt stop up to the job?

 

Oh and if anyone knows of the cheapest place to buy one of these in the UK that would be great to know too : )

 

P.S. Thank you to all who have contributed to an informative thread with good quality (in the main :)) posting.

Sure...although the m4 length wam4 doesn't have a 368 inner barrel as some might think. It comes with the same 220mm length inner barrel as the cqb-r. I use Abbey Ultra in my pistols but right now I'm using abbey 134 in my wam4. I just installed the pdi 6.01 368 inner barrel and i'm going to chrono and test it out today. I'll try it on a couple of shots with it since i'm now using a metal hop-up chamber set. My suggestion (and this is to everyone) is to keep the mags on the "no lock" position when the gun is not being used to skirmish. This will help the life of your bolt and your bolt stop (even with the steel ones). Also use high quality & heavier type bb's (.25's or higher). I can't say how the life of the stock internals will be using ultra gas since it's still pretty strong, but either way you should upgrade the hop-up unit BEFORE using any "green" type gas. When hop-up units fail bb's jam and stock parts start breaking. This gun IS still a toy so treat it gently. If it jams...clear it. Don't just pull the bolt back and just force things and DO NOT use that bolt assist button. Sure it's cool to have but quite honestly I don't think anyone should use it EVER. If the bolt doesn't go forward all the way...SOMETHING IS WRONG! But anyways i'll post up results later this afternoon (it's still 10:30am hawaii time ;))

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I changed to the Ra-tech hopup house before using this gun.. and very glad for it. I have shot maybe 1500rd through my WA already and the only thing I have upgraded yet is the hopup housing, G&P front and using another spring in the hopup.

 

I have never put it in no-lock position and have used 0.20, 0.25 and now 0.27 on it. Since I have put stronger spring in the hopup it have upward spin after 30-40 meters when I have a minimum hopup.. So I have some more tuning to do.

 

Using the ASG gas that is a Green gas and get 370-90fps with 0.20 inside the house.

Just got one leaking mag.. fixed that with teflon and have done this to 3 mags now. Going to do it with all of them.

 

I find the WA to be very good.. Even almost stock.

 

Used the forward assist a few time. It seems that the bolt sometimes at the first charging with the charging handle might make it not got all the way forward. This might be because I have the RA-tech hopup house and that it is a bit tight for the nozzle.. not sure.

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Adding to the others:

 

1) Does anyone know what the FPS output is with a full carbine length (360ish mm i think) inner barrel on Abbey Ultra gas?
My WA M4 chrono'd @ 480-460FPS using 0.20g G&G Bio BBs + Green Gas + PDI 6.01mm (324mm) + RA Tech Hopup Chamber. Ambient Tempurature during testing was approximately 80°F (27°C). This is using a resealed mag, no leaks and not warmed up before chrono'ing.

 

 

2) What could I expect the life of the stock internals to be on Ultra Gas?
Average life for the stock hopup using Green Gas is usually less than 3000 rounds.

 

 

3) If the bolt stop and hop are the first parts to go, what is the best aftermarket hop replacement? and is the G&P replacement bolt stop up to the job?
Hopup = RA Tech (still undecided about the PRIME version). No experience with the PGC/Pro-Win hopup.

Bolt Stop = Avoid the G&P bolt stop. It's poorly constructed with a weak spot weld. On the other hand the RA Tech one piece bolt stop looks promising.

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about 85 degrees F outside shooting with KSC .2's

 

when i first got it i used the abbey 134a and got 300fps

 

today:

abbey 134a = 350 fps (this i'm happy with)

abbey ultra = 460 fps (this...is WAAAY too strong for my liking)

 

current setup:

prime hop-up unit

pdi 6.01 368 inner barrel

 

Oh...btw...the g&p bolt stop cracked in half (at the weld only) after doing this test with maybe 8 bb's (did 4 shots each). It only locked back twice. The stock one isn't broken yet, but hopefully i get the ra-tech one soon to try it out. If the g&p one was 1 piece it would be much better. Right now it's worse than the stock part. Gonna see if I can find some way to fuse the two pieces together rather than the pitiful "2-point" weld that g&p did. I'll take pictures of it later too.

 

Now here's something to think about. Those of you who wanted the inokatsu one for co2 purposes, unless they create some sort of regulator in the mag (which i highly doubt they'd do) you're gonna be seeing a much higher jump that would definitely put you over any public game field limit.

 

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i've read several times in this thread ot keep the mags in "no lock" position. can anyone give me the quick low down on how to change between lock and no lock?

 

 

 

It's a fairly simple process to disable the bolt stop function. Use a plastic cleaning rod (or something similar) to push down the follower (where you put the BBs) about 0.5" (1cm is ok). Holding it down, you slide the small bent wire tab forward completely. This wire tab can be found forward and to the right of the two screws on the top of the magazine. See picture for reference. Reverse the process to enable the bolt stop function.

 

 

DSC_0070-3.jpg

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have you guys seen this?

 

http://www.tokyo-model.com.hk/ecshop/goods.php?id=3535

 

Similar to the Guarder one coming out so you can easily change the length of the outer barrel.

 

 

EDIT: These last few pages are really clogged up with Inokatsu ######. All that should have been left in the inokatsu thread....

Edited by junior
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we cant expectation all of MTWs. (AK,SCAR,MP5,ETC), Maybe they are not release all MTWs and big orange walkman box

 

More interesting INTERANALS of that MTWs... WA M4A1 is cool copy (Trigger group).

 

Is someone have M4A1 with S-1-3 trigger group? What's about make it for WA M4A1? Possible?

 

 

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Grr, this thread is the 'Western Arms M4 CQB-R' thread.

 

I think it would be unreasonable for anyone to think that post relating to the M4a1 is off topic. But surely I can expect posts, especially bad ones, about the Inokatsu MTW to be posted in the appropriate thread leaving this thread for the WAM4.

 

This thread started as a very good informative thread relating to the WA GBB M4, its cons, pros, after market parts etc. It is, however, degenerating into an area for people to post messages that are nothing to do with the WAM4 or make little sense.

 

Sorry to moan but the first few dozen pages were of a good quality and then it starts to get harder to find anything usefull in here.

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I have now fixed 3 mags and started on my number 4.. It is pretty easy to disassemble the magazine (just remember to lock the valve open before opening it... Trust me ;) )

 

The problem is to getting it together again. off course the teflon would make it harder to press it together.. but what really buggers me is the spring. I have yet found out a good way to get the spring inside and then put the bottom on without either have trouble with the spring or have to break the tabs on the spring cover to get it together.

 

dscf2063zu6.jpg

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It seems the design of the bolt stop system wasn't fully thought through by western arms. From what i'm seeing, it's the bolt slamming forward after the bolt stop release button is pressed. Not from the actual "cycle" of the shot. That's why everyone is getting those indentations on the bolt stop.

 

For anyone still reading and have questions about this awesomest-cool gun, just ask! There's a lot of people still reading this thread that's done some work on their wam4. What's great is I don't have to disassemble a gearbox to try and modify something. :)

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The problem is to getting it together again. off course the teflon would make it harder to press it together.. but what really buggers me is the spring. I have yet found out a good way to get the spring inside and then put the bottom on without either have trouble with the spring or have to break the tabs on the spring cover to get it together.

Oh oh i know the answer to that one! :) If you look on redwolf's website they have a takedown instruction tutorial as well. If you leave that bottom pin they show in (the corner one that attaches the front outside and bottom cover of the magazine) it makes it easier to put the spring back in. Put the feeding part into the mag first so it has something to grab. The spring goes onto that feeding piece and the other end goes to the ending of the outer part. Bah...i need pictures to explain this one...

 

--edit--

Thank you elrey!

Edited by shinhk
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I have got some closer pictures of the teflon work I do.

 

I have 5 turns on the expansion chamber, 5 on the bottom plug, 5 on the top and just one on the valve thread. Don`t use any lubrication on the teflon.. I had some bad experience with that. The lubrication just went all over inside the mag and it looked really crappy and dirty inside and did leak after some use.

When I did this new method I have not had any trouble. Also having the teflon on first and then the o-ring looks like a better method.

 

dscf2070ux5.jpg

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dscf2072xm4.jpg

dscf2074pq1.jpg

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Oh oh i know the answer to that one! :) If you look on redwolf's website they have a takedown instruction tutorial as well. If you leave that bottom pin they show in (the corner one that attaches the front outside and bottom cover of the magazine) it makes it easier to put the spring back in. Put the feeding part into the mag first so it has something to grab. The spring goes onto that feeding piece and the other end goes to the ending of the outer part. Bah...i need pictures to explain this one...

 

--edit--

Thank you elrey!

 

 

did it like that.. and still it is crappy like *suitcase* to get the spring in there while putting the last bit together.. guess I need to grow a few more arms.. <_<

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