da_monkey Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Could you please post up a scanned copy of the exploded diagram form the manual. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bangla_Black Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Whats the ROF on this gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xerxes Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 [mentat mode] I'm not buying one at the moment due to the short life of the internals and the frailty of the magazines. The speed at which the internals are chewing themselves is mainly down to using green, might be causing issues with the magazines too. I'd want to use green for power reasons in the UK due to our dire temperatures. A longer, say standard M4 length, barrel would increase the velocity of the rounds quite substantially by the sounds of things. Simply using a longer barrel would potentially enable us in the UK to use 134a to negate the internal-chewing problems and possibly have a skirmishable rifle... [/mentat mode] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 [mentat mode] I'm not buying one at the moment due to the short life of the internals and the frailty of the magazines. The speed at which the internals are chewing themselves is mainly down to using green, might be causing issues with the magazines too. I'd want to use green for power reasons in the UK due to our dire temperatures. A longer, say standard M4 length, barrel would increase the velocity of the rounds quite substantially by the sounds of things. Simply using a longer barrel would potentially enable us in the UK to use 134a to negate the internal-chewing problems and possibly have a skirmishable rifle... [/mentat mode] And I'll have data for you on the M4 barrel towards the end of next week once mine is finished. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupus78 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Simply using a longer barrel would potentially enable us in the UK to use 134a to negate the internal-chewing problems and possibly have a skirmishable rifle... My thoughts exactly. I'd really like know what kind of velocities (and joules) this gun achieves when used with full-length M4 carbine barrel and HFC134a gas...? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xerxes Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 And I'll have data for you on the M4 barrel towards the end of next week once mine is finished. Poison am hero. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inq Eisenhorn Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Ok, you guys are like a pony that can't decide if its better to go left or right...... While it would be nice to get a definitive answer on what exactly is the problem with these rifles, it seems to me that the current owners can't decide. On the one hand it seems like this rifle is falling apart at the seams, on the other it looks like its just a couple of components that are causing the headache, and theres perhaps three or four people looking at getting them done in steel anyway. It seems to me, those who really want this rifle just need to go out and buy it and simply "suck it and see". I've had this rifle on and off my wants list more times than I care to count based on this thread alone..... I still need to wait before I buy it as I'm on the verge of drinking the Systema Koolaid .....depending on how much that hurts, I might have to do a Bacardi mix of Western Arms Koolaid as well.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Ok, you guys are like a pony that can't decide if its better to go left or right...... While it would be nice to get a definitive answer on what exactly is the problem with these rifles, it seems to me that the current owners can't decide. On the one hand it seems like this rifle is falling apart at the seams, on the other it looks like its just a couple of components that are causing the headache, and theres perhaps three or four people looking at getting them done in steel anyway. It seems to me, those who really want this rifle just need to go out and buy it and simply "suck it and see". I've had this rifle on and off my wants list more times than I care to count based on this thread alone..... I still need to wait before I buy it as I'm on the verge of drinking the Systema Koolaid .....depending on how much that hurts, I might have to do a Bacardi mix of Western Arms Koolaid as well.... The think the main guys on this thread who have them all agree its basically the bolt stop and the hopup/loading ramp part that the bolt connects with. Those are the only two parts that are taking a beating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IronWolf Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 BoomArms are now selling the mags at a rather nauseating 108 USD: They're also selling a cosmetically modified WA M4 (G&P 14.5 Front End, ACM EoTech knockoff, and rear sight) at 830 USD: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inq Eisenhorn Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 $108 for one (1) mag ?!?!?!? .......man, thats rape of the highest order. So, off the wants list again....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wupjak Posted May 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) Ok, you guys are like a pony that can't decide if its better to go left or right...... While it would be nice to get a definitive answer on what exactly is the problem with these rifles, it seems to me that the current owners can't decide. On the one hand it seems like this rifle is falling apart at the seams, on the other it looks like its just a couple of components that are causing the headache, and theres perhaps three or four people looking at getting them done in steel anyway. Eh? I've been very consistent in my criticism and praise. Not sure what you're talking about. Edited May 14, 2008 by Wupjak Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 $108 for one (1) mag ?!?!?!? .......man, thats rape of the highest order. So, off the wants list again....... I'd wait till its at redwolf/dentrinity/uncompany/wgc. But I agree if everyone is selling them at 108 I'd be pretty ###### since I wasn't impressed with the build quality of the magazines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inq Eisenhorn Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) Eh? I've been very consistent in my criticism and praise. Not sure what you're talking about. Apologies, I should have phrased my post better! It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular....I was really talking about the "impression" of the thread being up and down, as opposed to the actual detail. In many ways, I have been following this quite closely (like many others I'd imagine) and the tone of the thread seems to go from "OMG its dead" to "Well, hey..its not that bad, nothing some xxxx can't fix".....so, in my case, you're kinda left thinking "Damn, I ain't buying that POS" to "Ah hell, I'ma gonna buy it and luv it, and make it ma b*itch" Although, as Poison has just pointed out, with mags being that costly, it looks like the choice is outta my hands anyway....I couldn't justify the overall cost of having the rifle, not with mags, replacement parts (reciever, front end, etc) and repairs....(even if those repairs are just a couple of parts) Edited May 14, 2008 by Inq Eisenhorn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xerxes Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I'm not a stingy person, nor short on pennies (see the list of guns I've owned), but $108 a magazine is extracting the urine. Plus, it'll end up at that price but in pounds from UK retailers, and to import it you'll have to add ~25% in postage, fees, VAT and duty, ending up at roughly the same price per magazine anyway. Fail of the most epic proportions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I'm not a stingy person, nor short on pennies (see the list of guns I've owned), but $108 a magazine is extracting the urine. Plus, it'll end up at that price but in pounds from UK retailers, and to import it you'll have to add ~25% in postage, fees, VAT and duty, ending up at roughly the same price per magazine anyway. Fail of the most epic proportions. Ya at most...at most I'd value the mags at $80....that being said...even if they are the $108 everywhere I'll still pick up 3 of them. I won't be happy about the cost but I've already invested a fair amount into the rifle and 4 mags will get me through most situations the way I play. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdrianRogers Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 If they are anything like the Tanaka M700 Gas mags i would pay £60 for them.. But it doesn't sound like they even come close? Those Tanaka mags were so badass. I used to love just loading up my AICS and cycling the bolt, click, empty, repeat. Do you get a really good hard click when you slam the mag home? Or is a bit pathetic ala typical AEG? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tililin Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 can you disassembly the stock tube to put another stock? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inq Eisenhorn Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Again, I agree with Xerxes, and I don't think I could have put it any finer However, it seems that people will be buying these mags, so more power to them. I can definately see GBB rifles sitting proud alongside AEGs, but not from WA and its pricing policy I can't....if WA wants to play on the novelty card, then fair enough....but like everything...the Novelty soon wears off....and when that happens you pi$$ of your loyal customers when you have to bring the price down to shift units....(see Jaguar X-Type).....I wonder if that was the reason Systema rifles are still so expensive (nah...probably just greed ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fade Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Again, I agree with Xerxes, and I don't think I could have put it any finer However, it seems that people will be buying these mags, so more power to them. I can definately see GBB rifles sitting proud alongside AEGs, but not from WA and its pricing policy I can't....if WA wants to play on the novelty card, then fair enough....but like everything...the Novelty soon wears off....and when that happens you pi$$ of your loyal customers when you have to bring the price down to shift units....(see Jaguar X-Type).....I wonder if that was the reason Systema rifles are still so expensive (nah...probably just greed ) I don't think anyone should be surprised at the rumored price tag of the mags. A WA single stack .45 mag, which holds 21 BBs, easily sells for $45-50 in the States. With the size of the gas chamber and the amount of BBs the M4 mag holds, it's just simple scaling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fade Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Eh? I've been very consistent in my criticism and praise. Not sure what you're talking about. Oh and thanks for the review Wup, its the best review I've read in a good, long while! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xerxes Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I know it sounds like I'm slating the rifle, and to be honest I'm a bit annoyed by the way it's turned out, but I can definitely see the appeal of this rifle and the fun you could have with it. I can only hope it spurs other companies to go down the GBB route, hopefully with a solid, reliable system. The more self-contained GBB rifles that are released the better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fade Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I know it sounds like I'm slating the rifle, and to be honest I'm a bit annoyed by the way it's turned out, but I can definitely see the appeal of this rifle and the fun you could have with it. I can only hope it spurs other companies to go down the GBB route, hopefully with a solid, reliable system. The more self-contained GBB rifles that are released the better. You've got a point, $108/mag is a major ouchie!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 You've got a point, $108/mag is a major ouchie!!! Everyone calm down. Till we see the price at other retailers lets wait and see.....I find it REALLY interesting that BoomArms got them before WGC and Redwolf. I almost think that they direct ordered them for the normal street price and marked them up a fair amount to make a quick buck. I believe NOTHING on the price till I see it every where else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 In addition, once GBBs have all the kinks worked out they are far more reliable in the long run than an AEG. Just look at all of the paintball guns or even classic airsoft guns from the early 1990s that are still bumming around. My VM-68 has never been cracked open, never cleaned and it still shoots like the day I bought it. Just had to call BS on this. Sorry. Gas guns can be reliable. I have precharged air rifles from the 1980's that still work just fine. As long as the hammer carries on thumping against the release valve you're golden. Gas blowback is a different story. GBBs take a HUGE pounding in use, especially when upgraded. Show me a GBB that's 10 years old and I'll show you a GBB that's seen very limited use. Cracks and worn parts are almost inevitable when you have pneumatically operated moving parts rattling around and, in the case of an M4, rattling off 20 rounds a second. In general, I think you'd have to be nuts to write this gun off as unreliable. I can guarantee you that parts and fixes will come along that'll make this the gun it should be. For people who want a realistic airsoft rifle it really is too big a leap forward to dismiss because of teething problems. Even if WA don't fix it themselves it's almost inevitable that the aftermarket will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wupjak Posted May 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 89 degrees today, 489-492 fps with .25s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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