hugh_b Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 (edited) Hey guy's, this is my first review so i apologize if i have left things out so please let me know if you want to know anything else you would like me to include and i will edit accordingly. Before i start i'd just like to tell you what aeg's i have owned: -jg m733 -jg m4a1 -jg mp5 navy,full metal -d-boys m4 full metal cqb -army r85, v2 -kwa g36c Although many of these were cheap-softs i am very fussy when it comes to my kit and weapons,the above is in order of when i owned them. On to the review... This is the European spec and cost £170. What you get: As you can see it comes well packaged like any other high end aeg, nice tight fitting polystyrene box, which doesn't crumble and make the carpet a mess! The lid has all the usual details, it lists what your getting and some other real steel details to add the authentic look. Included in the package is: the aeg, one 300rd hi-cap mag, cleaning rod, flash-hider/barrel dust cover, sight adjustment tools, small allen key for body pins and instruction manuel. The mag is very high quality and is a gun metal color, extremely well put together. The winding mechanism is extremely smooth, far smoother than TM and CA mag's. Externals: I'm very impressed with the finish and externals of this M4. From the moment you pick it up everything feels solid and sturdy. The receiver is metal and matte black in color. As far as i can tell this is anodized and therefore, very durable and looks great. There are no blemishes or manufacturing marks. I have heard some people complain about the lack of real steel trades on this gun, to me their not important although it would have been a nice little bonus. Instead you have "KWA" laser etched just above the magwell. The main part of the carry handle is plastic, although this sounds it really isn't, they have used a very sturdy plastic with a matte finish to match the receiver. I didn't actually realize this wasn't metal until i removed it and felt the weight of it individually. The rear iron sight, carry handle securing knobs and plate are all metal, again finished in the same was as the receiver. There are two different size holes on the iron sights, the small one isn't really of too much use as it's too small but the larger one is just fine. The charging handle, dust cover and dummy bullet eject button are again all metal and finished in the same was as the receiver. When pulling back the charging handle the dust cover flips open to reveal the dummy bullet eject port, pulling the charging handle right back will also bring back the bullet eject plate, which is a nice gun metal cover, to reveal the hop-up. The buffer tube is metal and the stock is a strong abs plastic with a matte finish, this has 6 positions. There is a tiny amount of movement in the stock but no more than any other m4 i have felt. Kwa have fitted a sling swivel where the buffer tube meets the receiver, this has a sling attachment point either side to cater for left and right handed shooters. It's pretty beefy at about 3-4mm thick. Perfect for attaching a one point sling. The grip is the standard m4 shape and feel, constructed from abs plastic, feels solid, no creaking there, on the underside a metal heat-sink motor plate is fitted to keep the motor cool. The trigger and trigger guard are metal, there's a small amount of movement in the trigger guard but nothing to worry about. The delta ring is metal and holds the abs fore-grip in nicely. There is a small amount of movement (rotation) in the fore-grip but you really would have to try hard to notice it. The outer barrel has no wobbles and has a nice matte finish as does the flash hider. It has "5.56 NATO 1/7" stamped into the side which is a cool little detail. The front iron sight is metal and has a matte finish. There is a separate mount for a front sling hook, this is also full metal. However there is the option of mounting a sling hook to the underside of the front iron sight. Internals/Working parts: I have removed and stripped the gearbox, however i have no pictures of this, i do plan on stripping it again quite soon so i will add pictures to this section then. The gearbox casing is black and is reinforced towards the front. It features open 8 and 9mm ball bearings, a black polycarbonate piston with one metal tooth, reinforced metal gears in black, spring guide with what looks to be a bushing instead of a bearing, a metal piston head which just like the spring guide has a bushing instead of a bearing, however this is not vented but does create a good seal with the brass cylinder which has a larger than normal vent to reduce fps for the European market. The cylinder head is some form of plastic with a rubber buffer. The air nozzle is metal. All this is held within the reinforced casing which is held together with torx screws. The whole unit runs very smoothly, this is due to the build quality/shimming and high quality parts used. However i don't rate the internals as good as some say, for example the non vented piston head and standard brass cylinder. At the end of the day as-long as it's reliable, smooth and powerful thats all i'm worried about. I will come onto upgrades/changes i have made in another section so please read on... The hop-up is plastic, it provides a great seal with the air nozzle and barrel and has nice smooth adjustment that is gradual rather than on/off as is found on many aeg's. The hop-rubber works well as does the nib. The inner barrel is brass and is listed on the kwa web-site as 6.05mm +/- 0.03 mm. It's 393mm in length which is unusual for an m4 as the standard length is 363mm. This reaches just under 10mm into the flash hider but can't been seen. The mag catch/release has a solid feel to it and works nicely as does the fire selector switch and cocking handle. The body pics are two part units, one side having an allen key screw the other being the sleeve for this to thread into. At first they are pretty firm in the body but loosen up the more you remove and re-install them. The wiring used throughout is a high quality thick gauge wiring and features a mini battery connector. The motor is a un-marked/branded hi-torque motor. Firing test: All tests are run on a g&p 9.6v 2200mah nun chuck battery as can be purchased from ehobbyasia, this fit's very nicely in the fore-grip. I also only use .20 excel bb's The gun is li-po ready, however i didn't fancy the risk of running around with a potentially hazardous battery and i also would like to prolong the life of my aeg. As i said earlier this is the European spec kwa m4, therefore it has the larger vent in the cylinder to reduce fps. After 2 hi-caps of bb's, i set the hop-up and began to chrono. To my surprise the results were quite varied, i was getting readings from 300fps to 330fps, I gave the barrel a good clean and re-oil but the results were still the same. I also noticed when firing the gun that it was quite loud which got me thinking and wanting to investigate further. The general shooting and performance of the gun in it's standard state was very pleasing, although it was loud the had a varying fps you could not tell, as it was very accurate and had great range, better than anything i have had before. So much so in-fact, that it kept up in range with a friends new CA SL8! I tested the aeg at a range of about 80-90ft, shooting at a standard air rifle target. The grouping was very accurate. With a fully charged battery the aeg was putting out just under 20rds per second! The trigger pull is firm and feels really solid, very quick response from the trigger pull to the rifle actually firing. Upgrades/Changes i have made: As i said earlier i was quite surprised that the fps was so low and varying. I decided to strip the gearbox and investigate the problem, checking for a good seal between piston and cylinder and also between air nozzle and hop up etc. I found no problem here so i decided to give everything a clean, re-oil/grease and re-assemble. this produced the same result through the chrono. I then proceeded to check the hop-up and experiment with different hop rubbers, this once again produce the same result. I then noticed the cylinder had an extremely large vent, in actual fact you could see where the vent had been enlarged from the standard US spec. I had a spare cylinder from an mp5 with a vent roughly 1/2 to 3/4 of the size. I fitted this and re-tested. This shot the fps up to 380 and it was consistent to within 5fps . Not only this but the gun had reduced in noise massively, it is now as quiet as a standard CA. The range has improved also. It has now come to my attention that although European version is specced with a m100 spring, it in-fact has an m120 but has the large vent which increases noise and lowers fps! I have now fitted a CA metal, vented piston head and prometheus m110 spring. The spring has lowered the fps to 350fps which is bang on my local site limit. I will soon be adding a prometheus cylinder, which is when I will take internals pictures. This should then give me a perfect set-up. i have also fitted a flat fuse and connectors to enable me to fit a ris system. I have did install a prometheus tight-bore 6.03 barrel, which resulted in a a drop of 10fps, this leads me to believe the standard barrel is of a tighter bore! Field testing: I have now skirmished this aeg 4-5 times. So far it has performed flawlessly. I have used it for 3 skirmished with the upgrades as above. Internally it has been flawless and I'm extremely happy with this, range is great as it power and i've had some great kills. Externally it is almost perfect, there are a few marks/scratches around the magwell but this is to be expected, the front sling hook has actually broken off, this happened at my last skirmish due to the weight of the gun through the sling. However this has happened on all m4's i've owned so i guess it's just a general design flaw. I recommend using a single point/bungee sling, attaching it to the cqb sling hook at the rear of the receiver. This will be the strongest and most solid fixing point. other than that, it's great! Compatible parts list: Below is a list of parts i have found compatible, please let me know of any others you have also found compatible. Magazines: -KWA hi-cap -CA hi-cap -TM hi-cap -JG hi-cap -D-boys hi-cap -CA mid-cap Battery's: -G&P 9.6v 2200mah nun chuck -ASG 9.6v 1100mah mini -GP 9.6v 1250mah mini -11.1v li-po (ensure correct charging, storage and use) RIS: -D-boys cnc ris (will need to install flat fuse) and peq-2 or rewire to rear and install crane stock) thanks-Hugh Edited June 4, 2008 by hugh_b Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugh_b Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Just a few more pics i couldn't fit in the above post: thanks-Hugh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Good review, very interesting! Let's have some mechbox moneyshots next time you crack it open, eh? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugh_b Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Good review, very interesting! Let's have some mechbox moneyshots next time you crack it open, eh? yep, as i said in the review i'm planning on opening it up to put in a new prometheus cylinder so i'll grab some pics then Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarineDEP Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) good review, glad to see another KWA m4 user ! I have the KWA w/echo 1 RIS this gun is awesomely built. Let it be known MAG Mid-cap magazines work with the KWA aswell as E1 RIS. I will soon know if the E1 M203 works with no mod. soon! Edited June 6, 2008 by MarineDEP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
i_is_oli Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Looks good mate, nice review... Hmm the only thing I'm not keen on, is those KWA trades...just ruins the look IMHO.. Apart from that, pretty nice gun. Any chance of a comparison against the CA or ICS equivalent by any chance if you know of someone with one? Regards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugh_b Posted June 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Looks good mate, nice review... Hmm the only thing I'm not keen on, is those KWA trades...just ruins the look IMHO.. Apart from that, pretty nice gun. Any chance of a comparison against the CA or ICS equivalent by any chance if you know of someone with one? Regards. yeah i can try an arrange something, yeah i agree about the trades, i would really like a receiver with trades but i don't think any other receiver will fit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
i_is_oli Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Oh really... So that would be big downside then I guess? Do you know why another receiver wouldn't fit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I will soon know if the E1 M203 works with no mod. soon! Any update on this? I'm curious to know if the E1 M203 fits the KWA M4 as well Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugh_b Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Oh really... So that would be big downside then I guess? Do you know why another receiver wouldn't fit? yeah, well apparently someone has fitted the gearbox to a hurricane receiver but as far as i can tell from research i've done the pin holes don't line up with other receivers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
i_is_oli Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Oh really...how strange...gonna have to be a bodge job then, or just go and take it to a retailers to see what they can do I guess. Definitely looks like a worthwhile investment, it's just that horrible KWA logo is really putting me off...krylon anyone? haha. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
L4byr1nth Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 CA, anyone? Look at those trades! .... Ben. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
0nslaught Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 CA, anyone? Look at those trades! .... Ben. CA? you cant be serious. IMO armalite trades are no better durability is probably better on the KWA, and the internals blow CA out of the water.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Thief Lord Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Agreed. If anything is to be said externally, G&P is definitely the best way to go. Although I'm not quite sure about the compatibility with the G&P bodies, would be absolutely perfect if they matched up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inq Eisenhorn Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Krylon that bad boy.....theres no reason to run around with trades like that on your rifle.....at least the Systema trades look like someone made an effort....these look like something you'd find on a cheap Chinese toy.....no pun intended, this is a US product, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beast06 Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 this is a US product, right? Taiwanese afaik, KWAUSA is only a distributor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
allizard Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 apparently, CA receiver is the ONLY receiver that doesn't fit with the pin hole not lining up. It's confirmed that Hurricane, Prime, G&P body will fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
majwinters636 Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 so how are those internals looking? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugh_b Posted July 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 (edited) ok guy's, just uploading the pics i have of the internals. Basically i was considering leaving the gearbox as it was however when setting the aeg up in the garden the trigger locked up! I opened up the mech-box and found that a little "stub" which is part of the gearbox casing mold had broken off, this prevented the trigger switch from going to far back, coming off it's guides and locking up. I didn't want to have to buy a new casing so i drilled the area where this stub was and fitted a small countersunk screw and nut so it cleared the selector plate and was short enough not to interfere with the gears. This has worked nicely and i played a whole game yesterday without fault. However i have since stripped the box again to check for wear etc and i have found that the piston was on the verge of stripping and one of the top gearbox casing torx screws snapped! I think i'll be buying a few internal parts for this! I have also now bought a classic army m15a4 carbine, as a comparison, standard set up etc, the kwa blows the ca out of the water, the finish and build quality are a mile better. The only thing i prefer on the ca is the trademarks. I am however going to be upgrading the ca so i'll see how that goes. pics of internals: Edited July 6, 2008 by hugh_b Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Interesting, thanks a lot. Pics are a little blurry though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugh_b Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Interesting, thanks a lot. Pics are a little blurry though. sorry dude, i will try and get some more while i'm doing the upgrade project. -Hugh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PCA_PJ Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 If I do stray from the AK path, it will surely be to the KWA M4. Thanks for the review Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RzezniQ Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) I wonder what happened to that piston because other reviews say it is extremely strong (nasa made ). Other people also described gearbox as a state of the art tank like and even did test with 16volt lipo and the gearbox was fine.... Maybe you just had bad luck? Edited July 11, 2008 by RzezniQ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugh_b Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I wonder what happened to that piston because other reviews say it is extremely strong (nasa made ). Other people also described gearbox as a state of the art tank like and even did test with 16volt lipo and the gearbox was fine.... Maybe you just had bad luck?Nothing was wrong with the piston i just wanted a vented piston to get a better air seal. The lug on the gearbox was just bad luck i think but all fixed now! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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