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Flecktarn Vs. US digital


onidemonXLR

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I guess the Army picked ACU because of it's changing mission. If you look at any modern military that uses camo you'll see a change in color shade, and design. Camo can only go so far as most of you guys already mentioned. You may have the best gillie suit in the world but if you start running around like an idiot you get shot.

 

The current thrend for camo now is trying to give the illusion of depth with something 2D. Hence, CADPAT, MARPAT, MultiCam, etc... With depth you lose distance and you lose shape.

 

Regular Army no longer participate in operation where camo is the difference of life and death. The regular Army soldier now is the UN or NATO peacekeeper going down the road. I guess America has really become 'the world's policeman...' in literal terms. That's why Urban enviroments work for ACU... or the snowcapped mountains of Afganistan or Colorado...

 

Most here make a comparasions to MARPAT. But the Marines have a totally different mission to begin with. They are not a occuping force like the Army. They DO however participate in major fighting. So camo is important for their mission.

 

I think only people who really NEED camo is Special Forces. Their jobs CALLS for it!

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The link that I originally found these on is broken, but here are some comparison photos of the Truspec ACU and MARPAT. It probably would have been better if the guy in the ACU wasn't wearing a woodland boonie, but I guess it might be useful if only for comparison purposes.

 

These photos arn't really that great, but they are the only photos of the ACU in the woods that I have seen as of yet.

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I didn't post these to try and show that the ACU works better than MARPAT. I would be rather worried if woodland MARPAT wasn't better than the ACU in woodland, as its a multiple environment camouflage.

 

I don't get what your getting at to be honest, if he was standing out infront of the folliage then of course he wouldn't blend in. Its been discussed previously in this thread that camouflage isn't there to do your work for you.

 

I personally don't think its right to compare the ACU to traditional camouflage patterns, as the ACU has to work in arid conditions too, so I wouldn't expect it to be superior to camouflage that is designed to work in a particular environment. MultiCam is the apparent exception to this.

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And the moral of the story is:

 

So long as you stand next to a tree trunk you're okay if wearing ARPAT, but to really hide like a snake in the grass you should wear MARPAT. :D

 

To be a proper comparison of the camouflage patterns though (and not the individual's skill at cover and concealment), I'd like to see both guys from a further distance away and also in patrolling mode - not hiding as much as possible behind the thickest bush available. :P

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I agree JKT, but as I said those were the only pictures that I have seen so far of ARPAT in the woods, so I guess they will have to do for the moment :).

 

I'm tempted to just buy a set of the Truspec ACU for myself and see what it looks like in person. You can only get so much from pictures.

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I have to admit this was a very informative thread and I enjoyed it, but people need to lay off the bashing. Patriotism is one thing, but outright bashing another's government is something else.

 

Without saying names, Germans have alot to be proud of, but maybe you should tone down what you say about the US.. I know there are a few US Servicemembers here that may be a bit sore over what has happened in past conflicts. Don't stereotype us, have you even made it to the United States for a visit?

 

Asides from that, promote what you want, no need to get personal guys. We are all seeking what works best for us right? That is the nature of camo, what pattern and colors work best in what enviroment.

 

I am a soldier in the U.S. Army (Infantry, National Guard, Army Reserves) and am very concerned over the new ACU and its ARPAT. That being said I have seen the MARPAT design and from what I have seen, I think it MAY be superior to ARPAT, but that has ALOT to do with it having the luxory of having two seperate patterns for two very contrasting enviroments. I am very suspicious of anything that is designed to work well in "any enviroment", as most of the time such things tend to work in neither enviroment very well. I am, dispite my branch of service, interested in what works the absolute best, as for me, it is no game as to whether my camoflauge works, my life depends on such things. I should also comment, that the government is not looking to get it's Soldier/Marines killed, and I believe they do try their best with their research and designs to give us the biggest advantage possible. Politics will always be at work, but, I think they are leary after what happened in vietnam w/ the original M16's, and are taking a bit more time with equipment.

 

Also, you can not blame Marines for not liking the proposed XM8... after you have a peice of equipment save your life more then a few times, you tend to get attached to it. No offense, but how many times have your airsoft toys saved your lives over the course of 9 months to a year? The XM8 will be accepted by riflemen only after it proves itself, as the M16 already has with many of them. Again, the reason it hasn't been accepted into service yet is it hasn't been able to pass military tests to satisfaction, and the US military is not looking to get its members killed with a substandard peice of equipment. Even if it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, it will not be pressed into service until they are as positive as they can be.

 

Continuing, many service members in the US do not simply say their weapons (in this case, rifles and hand guns) are the best because it is all they are exposed, subscribing to egocentrism. Our gun laws are very different here, as opposed to the UK and Germany. I am issued an M16 but have been exposed to many other weapons as a civilian, so some of us do have an idea of where our issued weapons stand in comparison to other battle and assault rifles. How many of you have actually fired a PSG-1? I have a buddy who owns one, real steel. I dont say this to gloat, just say it to point out that we are exposed to many different fire arms, and maybe have a bit better understanding of how our AR15/M16's stack up to the other things out there. Same goes for the 1911.

 

Also, before you slay me down as some know it all yank who is simply defending his country because its HIS... I have been to 11 different countries, had a very nice stay in Germany, spent a month in Europe and a month in Egypt, traveling for as a CIVILIAN simply because I wanted to see what else was out there. I have an open mind, and as such, I'd like to say Normandy was beautiful, and I really enjoyed Switzerland, along with northern Italy, but wasn't a fan of Italian driving (You italians all think your mario andretti! but give Egypt driving a go, its similiar, but has carts being pulled by donkeys in the mix, just for a challenge!).

 

Anyways, I've typed too much. Take it easy on us yanks, take it easy on each other, and keep an open mind.

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I am a soldier in the U.S. Army (Infantry, National Guard, Army Reserves) and am very concerned over the new ACU and its ARPAT.

 

HOOOOAAAH!! ;)

 

Very well written post. I see also that you are a fellow, open-minded, soldier & orld-traveller. Welcome.

 

I also served my time in the green suit (2 Bn. 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82nd Abn. Div. ; 1982-1986) - thanks to a green card.

 

Cheers!

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I had a good opportunity to observe both Flecktarn and MARPAT in action yesterday at Eversley.

 

I was very impressed by both.

 

MARPAT did have an edge in certain parts of the terrain - where the vegetation was a bit sparser and the forest floor was browner. It also worked quite well in silhouette against some of the thicker vegetation.

 

Flecktarn also worked very well in silhouette against the locations where there was a mix of vegetation, and was especially effective in the thicker, more shadowy parts of the under-growth. At one point on patrol, I nearly lost visual contact with the pointman, who was only about 5 yards in front of me, becuase he blended into the shadowy, vegetated forest floor so well!

 

So, in my opinion - it comes down to choosing what you think will work best in your environment, and also influenced by your choice of uniform and webbing style.

 

Personally, I think you have more flexibility in putting together a Flecktarn-based loadout than you do with a MARPAT one. Unless due to some perversion you actually WANT to look like a jar-head. :P

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These photos arn't really that great, but they are the only photos of the ACU in the woods that I have seen as of yet.

 

Damn, I'd missed these. They're the only decent comparison photos I've seen so far; I get annoyed when somebody prances around in the middle of a football pitch with ARPAT on to show it's ability. Very tactical... <_<

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  • 1 month later...
As for me, I'm not hostile towards the US gear, I'm hostile to the US Armed Forces, the US Administration and the US foreign policy. (In other words: a bunch of trigger-happy cowboys, war-criminals, weapon/oil industry lobbyists, liars and bible nazis). But that's another topic...

I'm sorry to dig up something older than the hills, but this really got me.

 

Any man or woman to put their life on the line for their country deserves enormous respect, no matter what the cause they end up fighting for, as long as it is conducted in a reasonable way.

 

Whether you (or the soldiers, for that matter) disagree with the war and the reasons behind it, there's no reason to slag off the people fighting said war. They're putting their lives on the line every day, and all you can do is sit behind a computer slagging them off, because you don't believe in the reason for them being there.

 

Try saying that to a soldier - I'd love to see how fast you'd be lying flat on your back being laid into.

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I'm sorry to dig up something older than the hills, but this really got me.

 

Any man or woman to put their life on the line for their country deserves enormous respect, no matter what the cause they end up fighting for, as long as it is conducted in a reasonable way.

 

Whether you (or the soldiers, for that matter) disagree with the war and the reasons behind it, there's no reason to slag off the people fighting said war. They're putting their lives on the line every day, and all you can do is sit behind a computer slagging them off, because you don't believe in the reason for them being there.

 

Try saying that to a soldier - I'd love to see how fast you'd be lying flat on your back being laid into.

+1

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The US may be using a Vietnam era rifle but it works, why replace it? THe 1911 is widly used by the USMC and that gun is almsot 100 years old. And how is Flector 60 years in development? It looks the same as it did back in WWII.

 

Get the digi camo the marines use, not that ugly army ######.

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http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...%3Doff%26sa%3DN

 

Here ya go. I don't like it. It seems just as ineffective as the original tiger stripe was back in the'60s.

 

And whoever flamed the coalition forces, the United States, anyone involved in the current Iraq war, you know what? Go to hell! Bible Nazis? How many *fruitcage* cases of religious genocide have you heard about in America? Last time I checked the United States wasn't attempting to take over the world and rid of the people it felt inadequate, or "imperfect". Any war crimes we have committed are in no way, shape, or form worse than the crimes committed by other countries in non-war times, as well as wartimes. So a few prisoners got ###### on. I was infuriated when I heard about that. But then guess what? I realized the prisoners were still alive. yeah, I feel really sorry that they got *fruitcage*ed around with, and had some really traumatizing things done to them. But we didn't kill them. We didn't shove bamboo shoots into their fingernails, or use shock-torture on them.

 

I do have one question. Do you honestly think that the United States of America is the only country on the face of the Earth that wants oil? Guess what dumbass! EVERY single developed country in this little hunk of rock we call home is after the black gold. Look at China. They build up HUGE reserves of oil, and yet they don't get any flack from pricks like you who think they can blame every *fruitcage* thing that goes wrong on America. I mean *beep*. Just lay off. Bible Nazis? Are you *fruitcage* stupid? America is THE most diversified country on the planet, and you try and call us nazis?

Fascists? Get some respect for Christ's sake! The coalition soldiers are doing things your sorry *albatross* never will. They are helping people. They are leading a country through a reformation that couldn't have been attained without our help. Not without the US. Not without the UK. Not without Austria. Not without the coalition. So you sir, can officially eat my *beep* and like it.

 

Sorry about that gents. Needed to vent.

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Any man or woman to put their life on the line for their country deserves enormous respect, no matter what the cause they end up fighting for, as long as it is conducted in a reasonable way.

 

Invading sovereign countries without a reason in "offensive wars", killing thousands of innocent civilians, establishing concentration camps for muslims, torturing POWs etc. is a "resonable way" for you?

 

The Nazis did the same in WW2 -> "evil guys", condemned by the USA for war-crimes, the leaders have been fated to die.

 

The USA do this today (!) -> good guys ?

 

 

Whether you (or the soldiers, for that matter) disagree with the war and the reasons behind it, there's no reason to slag off the people fighting said war. They're putting their lives on the line every day, and all you can do is sit behind a computer slagging them off, because you don't believe in the reason for them being there.

 

The war is illegal, the order to invade Iraq was illegal and every soldier is obliged to refuse obedience if he receives an illegal order from this CO. If he follows an illegal order he's a war criminal as his CO too.

 

That's not "slagging them off", it's public international law and martial law!

 

But the USA seem to be excluded from law and order, they can do what ever they want...

 

 

Try saying that to a soldier - I'd love to see how fast you'd be lying flat on your back being laid into.

 

OK. I'd love to see him court-martial for this :)

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