Lithium-Polymer (LiPo) Battery Primer

[Sonic01]

Nexus01. Two options;

1. Put Deans in you AEG(s). If you're going down the Li-Po 'route' for better performance, you should really ditch those cr##py Tamiya plugs at the same time.

2. Order the Li-Po pack(s) with Tamiya plugs, most sellers will offer this, but it'd be like buying a superbike that has bicycle tyres fitted

 

I would like to put Deans in my AEG but i already have 3 NiMh Tamiya batteries.... wait... i have an idea! I'll put Deans on my current 3 batteries, change my AEG to deans, and create 2 cables with Female Dean to Male Tamiya and the other way round as well so i can keep backwards compatability should either me on one of my friends have a major battery administrator failure :-D

 

Trust me i know how poor tamiya's are, I've been in IT for the last 10 years and the Tamiya's are based on the design of the old Molex connectors, thank god they have nearly been phased out. when i got my AEG in June my heart sank when I saw that... my first thought was "great, £200 on retro...".

 

1. It should be able to handle a 7.4v 2200 mah 25c lipo. My concern with CA, is their pistons. They seem to be dropping in quality.

So you think the piston will break after a while? I take it its possible to get stronger replacements that will last longer if not indefinently?

 

2. Most lipos that I've seen, come with no connector and you need to supply your own. I know some places allow you to choose the connector on them too. Honestly, if you're using Tamiya connectors, you're really defeating the purpose. I've seen charing inside tamiya connectors from poor conductivity and arcing. That's lost power. I'd suggest upgrading your connectors to deans. It's not really all that hard. See my soldering how to that's stickied in the Technical section.

As i said before, i now plan to do a lot of soldering i'll look up your thread you legend.

 

3. wow, I've answered this one a lot. Rather than type it all over again, just check out my website with all the moseft info: http://infectedairsoft.wordpress.com/item-...eaking-circuit/ if you're interested in buying one, then hit me up with a pm.

Yes... i admit it... i know it was discussed a lot in this thread but it took me a while to read through all 5 pages and im not sure i had it in me to go back and do it again... dam short term memory. thanks for the link ill look it up

[greg]

i have an idea! I'll put Deans on my current 3 batteries, change my AEG to deans, and create 2 cables with Female Dean to Male Tamiya and the other way round as well so i can keep backwards compatability should either me on one of my friends have a major battery administrator failure :-D

 

That's the spirit. Now you're thinking.

 

A quick search will give you the piston oppinions, there are plenty. As said, the CA should be good up to 1800 rpm.

 

 

Greg.

[infected]

My real beef with the ca's is that they have about the poorest engagement angle possible, at least in the ones I've worked on.

 

If you want my personal recommendation, Prometheus Pistons. I'm running one in my M249 and one in my M14, oh and I'm pretty sure there's one in my M4, but it's been running like a dream for a long time so I can't remember what all is in it .

 

As far as the deans go. All my batteries are now deans, all my guns are deans, my chargers have deans plugs. I do have a deans to tamiya adapter I built to allow me to loan batteries, or put them in guns that I test for reviews.

[Sonic01]

That's the spirit. Now you're thinking.

 

 

Greg.

 

ive had some shockingly bad luck in my short time in airsoft and ive had to learn hard and fast, not going to do anything by half's from now on thanks again for all your advice guys i think i'll give the lipo path a go

[Sonic01]

My real beef with the ca's is that they have about the poorest engagement angle possible, at least in the ones I've worked on.

 

If you want my personal recommendation, Prometheus Pistons. I'm running one in my M249 and one in my M14, oh and I'm pretty sure there's one in my M4, but it's been running like a dream for a long time so I can't remember what all is in it .

 

As far as the deans go. All my batteries are now deans, all my guns are deans, my chargers have deans plugs. I do have a deans to tamiya adapter I built to allow me to loan batteries, or put them in guns that I test for reviews.

 

since it would seem the lipo's will kill my CA piston im going to do some advanced planning and buy a prometheus piston for when it does go... oh yeah i forgot about the charger's cable as well... ill make a dean version for that

[greg]

My real beef with the ca's is that they have about the poorest engagement angle possible, at least in the ones I've worked on.

 

If you want my personal recommendation, Prometheus Pistons. I'm running one in my M249 and one in my M14, oh and I'm pretty sure there's one in my M4, but it's been running like a dream for a long time so I can't remember what all is in it .

 

As far as the deans go. All my batteries are now deans, all my guns are deans, my chargers have deans plugs. I do have a deans to tamiya adapter I built to allow me to loan batteries, or put them in guns that I test for reviews.

 

 

Is there two types of promy piston?

 

If so, which do I go for.

 

The main reason I haven't tried these yet, is a lack of availability in the UK. I guess if I'm serious about cracking the 2000rpm barier, (for longer than a few hi-caps!) I'll have to get some from HK or something.

 

Angel & element both have a good name, but again, I don't see them in the UK.

 

 

Greg.

[Sonic01]

Is there two types of promy piston?

 

If so, which do I go for.

 

The main reason I haven't tried these yet, is a lack of availability in the UK. I guess if I'm serious about cracking the 2000rpm barier, (for longer than a few hi-caps!) I'll have to get some from HK or something.

 

Angel & element both have a good name, but again, I don't see them in the UK.

 

 

Greg.

 

ive only spotted 1 type in my last 5 minutes of frantic surfing, accepts paypal and probably ships to UK:

 

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?...roducts_id=1428

 

ive never changed my AEG's internals, are all pistons the same shape or will i need to find one that specifically fits my mp5?

[infected]

Here's all 3 that they make (from a reliable seller):

http://www.cobraairsoft.com/advanced_searc...amp;x=0&y=0

 

And from ehobby:

http://search.stores.ebay.com/eHobby-Asia-...6665468QQsofpZ0

 

Make sure to remove that second piston tooth though.

[Sonic01]

Here's all 3 that they make (from a reliable seller):

http://www.cobraairsoft.com/advanced_searc...amp;x=0&y=0

 

And from ehobby:

http://search.stores.ebay.com/eHobby-Asia-...6665468QQsofpZ0

 

Make sure to remove that second piston tooth though.

 

thanks for the link i used that retailer for the G17 upgrades i thought this piston talk was getting off topic so i started a new thread.

 

hopefully you guys will join me there

 

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...howtopic=151125

[Harmless]

Good luck with the Deans. I happen to be the poorest solderer in the whole of civilisation. I spent 2 hrs last night trying to solder one wire onto the a single dean connection not the whole plug, one bit. Failed. And I have done this before! I'm just ######. Have to try again tonight

[infected]

Good luck with the Deans. I happen to be the poorest solderer in the whole of civilisation. I spent 2 hrs last night trying to solder one wire onto the a single dean connection not the whole plug, one bit. Failed. And I have done this before! I'm just ######. Have to try again tonight

 

have you checked out this thread for more help with soldering: http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...howtopic=150104

[greg]

have you checked out this thread for more help with soldering: http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...howtopic=150104

 

You do realize that trumps my carpentry comment from yesterday.

 

The poor guy has spent half the night failing & you direct him to a video showing that it can be done in less than 30 seconds.

 

You have a particularly cruel streak!!!!!

 

So, I take it the torqy piston would be best for +400fps semi setups & the other (cheaper) one for sub 400fps, hi-speeders???

 

Do you just remove the 1? Or 2nd & 3rd. & what about swiss cheasing??

 

I just seen the other thread, I'll take it over there.

 

 

Greg.

[Hilts]

Hi all,

 

Great thread - nice to get some solid info at last Just taken the plunge and ordered a LiPo and balancer (the mags for my 226 will have to wait lol) to try in my ICS m4. Hopefully it'll all turn up on Friday so can do some testing then. I'm currently running a 9.6v 2200 mAh NiMh pack through a mosfet with a stock motor and GB (apart from metal bushings and rewiring) - getting about 17 rps. I'll be interested to see how a 7.4v 2200mAh LiPo compares.

 

Cheers

 

H.

[greg]

Please post results.

 

 

Greg.

[skladfin]

i wanna use a 14.8v lipo...

[infected]

i wanna use a 14.8v lipo...

 

Go for it, but know this, you're gun needs to be right on in every conceivable manner. From the engagement angle of the pinion and bevel, the motor height adjustment (different than the AOE of the pinion and bevel), to the engagement of the sector and piston, to the materials matching, the shimming job needs to be right on, and the tappet plate will need a sector gear delayer clip to allow feeding reliably. A mosfet and 16 (maybe even 14) gauge wire is necessary, as will be deans connectors (or other high end connector). Bushings would be better than bearings (less room for error). Expect parts to wear out quickly at that speed in a full auto setup. For a semi-only dmr, it's a waste. I'm running 11.1v on my 500 fps DMR, and it's perfect.

 

Expect to go though motors quickly, as the motors used in airsoft are not brushless, and as such, they are not as effecient and the brushes will wear out quickly at that speed.

[greg]

Go for it, but know this, you're gun needs to be right on in every conceivable manner. From the engagement angle of the pinion and bevel, the motor height adjustment (different than the AOE of the pinion and bevel), to the engagement of the sector and piston, to the materials matching, the shimming job needs to be right on, and the tappet plate will need a sector gear delayer clip to allow feeding reliably. A mosfet and 16 (maybe even 14) gauge wire is necessary, as will be deans connectors (or other high end connector). Bushings would be better than bearings (less room for error). Expect parts to wear out quickly at that speed in a full auto setup. For a semi-only dmr, it's a waste. I'm running 11.1v on my 500 fps DMR, and it's perfect.

 

Expect to go though motors quickly, as the motors used in airsoft are not brushless, and as such, they are not as effecient and the brushes will wear out quickly at that speed.

 

I don' think he meant it.

 

It would be a bit over the top, kind of like a 2 litre R1.

 

Greg.

[Docv400]

...It would be a bit over the top, kind of like a 2 litre R1...

 

You said that like it'd be a bad thing

[Sonic01]

hey infected,

 

you said this in part 2:

 

"Mine just asks for the capacity of the battery and the voltage. Once I put those two numbers in, off it goes charging my battery. With the Triton 2, my 2200mAh battery charges in about 1 hour."

 

does the charger have an auto shut off then? you set the voltage and the mah, plug in the balancer and plug in the charger then your off... how did you know it was done after an hour?

[infected]

hey infected,

 

you said this in part 2:

 

"Mine just asks for the capacity of the battery and the voltage. Once I put those two numbers in, off it goes charging my battery. With the Triton 2, my 2200mAh battery charges in about 1 hour."

 

does the charger have an auto shut off then? you set the voltage and the mah, plug in the balancer and plug in the charger then your off... how did you know it was done after an hour?

 

Well, I plug the balancer into the charger, then turn it on. I then hook up the battery. Set the balancer into "interface mode" (2 presses of the only button on it). Then I select li-poly on my charger, and set the voltage (11.1 for this battery), and 2200mah for the capacity. After it's done charging (and balancing simultaneously), it makes the most awful sound for about 20 seconds after the charge is done. It also shows you the charge time, average current used to charge and such on the display. I love my trition 2! The manual makes the thing seem absolutely horrible to comprehend, but once you know how to use it, it's cake! Heck, you could just use the "auto" setting for any battery type and it'll still come out fine!

[Sonic01]

i think you just sold it to me.... which balancer do you use? and where'd ya buy em from?

[Xaccers]

Infected, great write ups

 

Just a couple of observations from using lipols for the past 3 years:

 

Using a 7.4v battery with around 2500mAh (and 20C) should negate the need for a low voltage warning as at 7V it shouldn't be able to fire the gun, so well above the 6v minimum for a 2 cell battery.

 

When you talk about the current required to turn the motor in the first one, try to talk about the Watts as it will help people understand why a 7.4v 2500mAh 20C lipol can out perform a 9.6v 3000mAh 10C battery (370W v 288W), so your motor requires 185W.

 

I ran a 3 cell lipol (dismantled and reconfigured to fit my G36 myself) for about 14 months, charging twice a month, no balancer. Removed one cell to drop it to 7.4v and ran it for another year or so, again charging twice a month. Dismantled it a while back to check the voltage across each cell as someone was ranting on about how not using a balancer WILL kill your batteries very quickly, and lo and behold, despite never having used a balancer, the voltages were identical.

[infected]

Nexus01

I use a Triton2 charger, and a Equinox balancer. Both of them are made by Electrifly. They seem to cost the same no matter where you get them. I bought mine at my local RC store (Hobbytown USA). The charger was about $125 and the balancer about $30. The catch is that the charger requires 12v DC for power. I modified a computer power supply I bought (for $15), to work as a 12v DC power source. Instructions can be found all over the net such as these: http://www.instructables.com/id/ATX--%3E-L...ply-Conversion/

 

Xaccers

I wasn't sure if showing the power output in Watts would have helped as I wanted to get the meaning of the C rating across. I think I'll try to include that info (wattage) in the final section of the writeup, if I get around to finishing part 3 up. I was hoping to finish it up today, but that didn't happen as I spent the afternoon working on my M14.

As far as the balancing goes, that's the way it should work. I can tell you that after charging I have seen a slight difference between cells on my battery pack, although it wasn't much. Balancing is just a safeguard and keeps your pack in good shape.

Oh, and a 6v battery could push an aeg, given enough discharge. It depends on the needs of the motor and drive train as well as the capabilities of the battery.

[Sonic01]

Nexus01

I use a Triton2 charger, and a Equinox balancer. Both of them are made by Electrifly. They seem to cost the same no matter where you get them. I bought mine at my local RC store (Hobbytown USA). The charger was about $125 and the balancer about $30. The catch is that the charger requires 12v DC for power. I modified a computer power supply I bought (for $15), to work as a 12v DC power source. Instructions can be found all over the net such as these: http://www.instructables.com/id/ATX--%3E-L...ply-Conversion/

 

kl cheers do you know if the electrifly kit works with Thunder Power RC eXtreme V2 lipo's? and can the balancer be used to balance the cells without being plugged in to the charger?

[skladfin]

Venom VEN lipo chargers charges 7.4v and 11.1v lipos

 

no settings or anything, just plug in and you are done. Its a balancer charger as well. I've been using it for quite some time now and its great! It also works with Li-ion batteries.

 

And its about ONLY $23!