Lithium-Polymer (LiPo) Battery Primer

[infected]

kl cheers do you know if the electrifly kit works with Thunder Power RC eXtreme V2 lipo's? and can the balancer be used to balance the cells without being plugged in to the charger?

 

FYI, there probably are cheaper solutions out there, I just know that this one is one of the best (and most versitile). It'll handle my nicad's, nimh's, and lipo's. Heck it works with li-ion and lead acid as well.

 

I am using a Thunderpower RC eXtreme v2 lipo myself (11.1v 2200 mah 25c) with that charger setup. The balancer can be used while charging, or seperately if you just want to balance your cells.

[skladfin]

what's the lipo with the highest discharge rate(with 11.1v) while maintaining a size smaller than a 8.4v mini battery?

[Sonic01]

FYI, there probably are cheaper solutions out there, I just know that this one is one of the best (and most versitile). It'll handle my nicad's, nimh's, and lipo's. Heck it works with li-ion and lead acid as well.

 

I am using a Thunderpower RC eXtreme v2 lipo myself (11.1v 2200 mah 25c) with that charger setup. The balancer can be used while charging, or seperately if you just want to balance your cells.

 

if it works for you thats good enough for me now i just have to figure out how to use my multimeter to check the cell v's....

[greg]

You said that like it'd be a bad thing

 

Yeah, you're right. Bad analogy.

 

The power would be nice to have but hard to handle & the extra bulk of the engine would be vary unwelcome.

 

I wonder, could a potentiometer or rheostat (or something) be added to the wiring, to control rof??

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

what's the lipo with the highest discharge rate(with 11.1v) while maintaining a size smaller than a 8.4v mini battery?

 

No idea, I am aware of the Flight Power 30C 7.4 2000mah. Which is slightly smaller than an 8.4 mini & gives the same sort of performance (slightly higher rof & longer lasting) as a 9.6v 3600mah subc.

 

Get of your bum & do some surfing. When your done, post the result.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

i think you just sold it to me.... which balancer do you use? and where'd ya buy em from?

 

If you are looking closer to home (UK), as previously posted, I use a rip max pro peak constellation + flight power balancer combo.

 

This is expensive kit, but charges just about anything (inc lipos) from mains or 12v (car). It's probably a bit over the top for airsoft, but handy if you want tip-top batteries & the flexibility to charge on the go, or analize what is going on with your power sources. You will find cheaper, equally well made set ups in the UK. This is obviously not necessary if you are happy to import. I try to avoid this, as I'm always clobbered by tax, & invariably get a duff product, which then can't be returned. (Yep, I know it never happens to anyone else. ).

 

This combo works in a similar way to infected's set up. It has programmable memories, so instead of giving the battery details each time, you can just select the one you want & press charge. It stops charging & beeps when it's done & balances while charging.

 

As per Xaccer's post (Welcome the true lipo king ) (& mine, earlier) balancing is not seen (by some) as necessary.

 

I do it as good practice. the fp balancer shows when it is actively balancing. It usually does very little, if anything, during the whole process. On one occasion, it was active for a few minutes when I charged a new battery for the first time.

 

Some (anals, like me) balance every charge. It is good practice & no extra effort. others say, every 4 charges.

 

& then (like xac), there are those who see it as unnecessary, preferring not to waste money on the balancer unit. Look back through this thread, to save me repeating what it's all about.

 

Take your pick.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

now i just have to figure out how to use my multimeter to check the cell v's....

 

Not hard, just probe the balancer lead connector & record results.

 

 

Greg.

[Sonic01]

Not hard, just probe the balancer lead connector & record results.

 

 

Greg.

 

i meant the actual settings on the multimeter lol. its covered in stuff i dont understand, ill figure it out dont worry

[infected]

i meant the actual settings on the multimeter lol. its covered in stuff i dont understand, ill figure it out dont worry

 

Set it to VDC (Voltage DC). Be careful when checking the voltage with a meter at the balance plug. If you touch the two probes together while contacting two cell terminals on the balance connector... *poof* goes your battery.

 

IMPORTANT

I forgot to mention, when buying a battery, know what type of balance plug you have. You might need an adapter plug for it to work with your balancer. For instance, I use ThunderPower battery packs, but the Equinox balancer has a Align style plug ("tap"), so I needed an adapter. Most places that sell lipos will have the adatpers too.

[Sonic01]

thanks again guys ive saved my wish list @ rctoys.com im going to buy all my kit tomorrow i think. ill let you know how it goes might make some videos to add to infected's tutorial pages perhaps?

 

yeah i spotted the balance adapter thing dont worry

[greg]

1, If you touch the two probes together while contacting two cell terminals on the balance connector... *poof* goes your battery.

 

IMPORTANT

2, I forgot to mention, when buying a battery, know what type of balance plug you have. You might need an adapter plug for it to work with your balancer. For instance, I use ThunderPower battery packs, but the Equinox balancer has a Align style plug ("tap"), so I needed an adapter. Most places that sell lipos will have the adatpers too.

 

 

1, You should get away with it a few times if it's a big battery. Unless it's a really big battery. Then *poof* go your probes too.

 

2, I wondered what all those things were that came with the balancer.

 

 

Greg.

[Sonic01]

ok ive got a question i dont think ive seen any where so far, so if this mosfet w/ active breaking will really increased my AEG's life span and increase the ROF, and the lipo just seems to be a better battery all over, is there any way to limit my ROF? i dont know what my current ROF is but i dont want it to go stupid high so im constantly burning through magazines.... and also will this increase my FPS a lot? because i cant go over 328FPS at my usual site....

[greg]

ok ive got a question i dont think ive seen any where so far, so if this mosfet w/ active breaking will really increased my AEG's life span and increase the ROF, and the lipo just seems to be a better battery all over, is there any way to limit my ROF? i dont know what my current ROF is but i dont want it to go stupid high so im constantly burning through magazines.... and also will this increase my FPS a lot? because i cant go over 328FPS at my usual site....

 

The electrics should have absolutely no effect on you fps.

 

Fps is basically controlled by the strength of the spring, air seal efficiency (piston/cylinder seal, cylinder/nozzle seal, nozzle/hop rubber seal & hop rubber/ barrel seal) & the type of cylinder (not always, but it should be matched to the barrel length), barrel (both length & diameter) & ammo (diameter, quality & weight).

 

Maximizing your electrical systems efficiency, (eg, good wire, mosfet & deans connectors) allows you to select a smaller battery than you would have needed before, when you were running a less efficient electrical path.

 

This is true, what ever your choice of power supply.

 

(I have posted this on this thread before, but to save you time)

 

I find, that the wire/fet/deans combo gives the same results (ROF wise) as adding a cell to your battery. So if you were on 8.4, the ROF would now be similar to a 9.6.

 

You can regulate your ROF by selecting the appropriate power supply. For instance, if you run a stock wired 9.6er. You can do the wiring, & achieve 10.8v results with your 9.6 (if you see what I mean), or, get the same results you used to have with the 9.6, by using an 8.4.

 

The benefits of this are, less stress on the electrical system (battery,wires,switch & motor) & a lighter, more compact power supply, (8.4's are 1 cell smaller than the equivalent 9.6, etc.).

 

& back onto lipos:

 

Lipos, like nicads & nimhs, come in a verity of physical sizes (usually about half the size of their nimh counterparts), &, like Nicads etc, a verity of powers & capacities.

 

This is shown (read the thread & Infecteds articles for a better understanding) as Volts, & Amps. Add to this the 'C' rating, & usually the discharge rate as a 'burst' (do the reading) or normal rate, in amps.

 

Select the appropriate combination & you can indeed control your gun's ROF.

 

A great starting place is (How many times I type this??? ) the FlightPower, 30C, 7.4v, 2000mah lipo. This is slightly smaller than an 8.4 mini, but gives a slightly better rof & slightly more rounds than a 9.6v 3600mah subc nimh.

 

Please note, the lipo is not necessarily (as you put it) a 'better' power supply. It is just an alternative, which is in a much smaller physical package. This makes it handy for airsoft, where you only have limited space to hold the battery on the gun.

 

 

Greg.

[Vercingetorix]

Right, to greg, infected, farkle, and all others that have expertly answered questions, and created this good helpdesk sort of thing, I congratulate you! Before read this I didn't want to even go near lipos, but now I am set o getting them.... I've got a few questions..... Wel my current setup is all prometheus parts, a pdi 170(it came slightly weaker than the norm), systema magnum and switch assy, with psypher's mosfet ab with ressetable fuse, deans, basically th works... I believe its ready to handle a lipo, more specifically an 11.1v 3300-4000odd one. Would you guys agree? My questions are as follows, some relate to general batteries, and some lipos, so please bear with me.... What are the good lipo brands? In Nimh batteries I always went for elite, awesome cells, for a great price.... Would the same hold true in lipos? Basically, what is generally thought to be the best, most reliable, high output (like 30c constant, 50c burst) cells out there? Secondly, elites new charger, I believe it is slightly no frills in that you pick the charging output, so for something say 3300 mah, would I want to set it to 3 or four amps per hour charging rate? Or something else entirely? this is th charger in question, and it seems a perfect candidate for m, nd is within a $100 budget with PSU chargerWhat is a good beeper thingy to get? Preferably something from cheap battery packs, as I like to get all my battery things from there.... I looked into the triton chargers, and what kept me back from buying them is that they don't come with built in balancers, and they don't come with a power supply which can get quite pricy... For purely airsoft use, would there be any pint in getting a triton? And if so, what is a good-but-won't-break-the-bank power supply for it? And would you guys say there in any point at all in going with a 4000-odd mah lipo over a 3300mah? Or is it absolutely unnecessary, and a useless price bump? The cells I am currently thinking of are the elite 11.1v 30c 3300mah or 4500mah packs from cheapbatterypacks.com , which are seen on this page. here is the cheapbatterypacks.com lipo selection , would any particular brand and more specifically pack from there be better? would a multimeter or the "lipochecker" seen herebe better, and how would I use the multimeter? Thanks for taking the time to answer all my many questions!

 

 

[infected]

Dude, that's a lot of questions! xD

Let me ask you this. Are your gears Promy gears too? If so you should be fine, the only concern would be the AOE of the piston and sector.

 

Elite, from what I've heard, is new to the lipo game, but have come out with some power house cells with really small size. I'm planning on trying them out soon, but if you get one, please post your results. As far as a 4000 mah pack... eh, IMO that's going a bit far and unnecessary. Honestly, I run about all day with an 11.1v 2200mAh in my m249 shooting 400 fps @ 28 rps. Granted, I probably would have gone to a 3300 if I had room.

 

Regarding the triton 2. I use it because it handles ALL of my battery types in one charger. It does not come with a power supply built in though. Some of the RC guys I've talked to said that's a plus, as the powersupply part, is the first to wear out in a charger, and you don't want to bin a nice charger because of something like that. So that was my justification. Yes, it meant getting an external balancer, and a computer power supply to power it at home, but for me it's the convenience of having all that i need in one charger. Granted, this solution isn't for everyone, as you either need to buy a power supply, or mod a computer power supply.

 

That elite one should be fine, but then again, I haven't heard too much about it.

 

As far as the buzzer / beeper thing. Ebay has the cheapest ones. The lipo-checker from cheapbatterypacks would be nicer, but lack any type of audio warning. The multi-meter they sell should do you just fine for all things airsoft, but if you're not going to use it much other than for checking the voltage on your lipo's, the lipo checker would be a better investment. Make sure that the lipochecker will work with the tap/balance plug on your lipo pack. Depending on the brand, you might need an adapter.

 

As far as brands go... I'll leave that to those with more experience. I will say, that the ThunderPower eXtreme v2 that I have works awesome!

[Vercingetorix]

right, well the elite charger seems to be the best bet for me, and with my experience with the guys at cheap battery packs, they don't cells things that are ######, and the owner himself stated that he used the charger for his pet projects, which is something I can readily believe because of past experiences with them, and the fact that all the elite stuff I've had to date is great, like a 25$ battery from them that as less mah, same voltage, smaller cells, then a comparable $40 dollar pack nimh of course.... So I think I'll give em a try... The psu is also separate, and costs a mere $20 and needs no mods, which is what I like, among other things. I am gonna give the elite lipos a go, I hardly think they'll be bad, and they're cheaper than thunder power too... But I need something that would fit in an empty m4 mag, do you think these would fit? If anyone has any more answers to what I earlier asked, please post em, or any opinions of better batteries/chargers....

 

oh, and they are prometheus standard gears.....

[skladfin]

No idea, I am aware of the Flight Power 30C 7.4 2000mah. Which is slightly smaller than an 8.4 mini & gives the same sort of performance (slightly higher rof & longer lasting) as a 9.6v 3600mah subc.

 

Get of your bum & do some surfing. When your done, post the result.

 

 

Greg.

 

sigh....

 

fine google here I come =(

 

ill post what I find. I'm getting 25 rounds per second on my KWA M4A1 using Firefox 11.1v 1600mah 12C Lipo(Voltage 12.55v when fully charged). And want that to go to maybe 30...

[galactica]

Nexus, you can vary the ROF if you use the Trigger master MOSFET. Works a treat in my gun. 11.1v LiPo would do 29 rps on my KWA G36, I have turned it down to 21rps.

[Sonic01]

Nexus, you can vary the ROF if you use the Trigger master MOSFET. Works a treat in my gun. 11.1v LiPo would do 29 rps on my KWA G36, I have turned it down to 21rps.

 

cheers for the tip ill see how it goes after ive redone the wiring, put a 7.4v lipo in and and stuck infected's mosfet in it, if i feel its to high ill use what you suggested

[greg]

cheers for the tip ill see how it goes after ive redone the wiring, put a 7.4v lipo in and and stuck infected's mosfet in it, if i feel its to high ill use what you suggested

 

You should be ok.

 

Depends on your set up. I use this bat for sub 1 jule set ups. With the electrics sorted, this gives between 1500 & 1700rmp. Stock CA components & the like, have proved reliable at this level.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

sigh....

 

fine google here I come =(

 

ill post what I find. I'm getting 25 rounds per second on my KWA M4A1 using Firefox 11.1v 1600mah 12C Lipo(Voltage 12.55v when fully charged). And want that to go to maybe 30...

 

Good man.

 

 

Greg.

 

[greg]

Right, to greg, infected, farkle, and all others that have expertly answered questions, and created this good helpdesk sort of thing, I congratulate you! Before read this I didn't want to even go near lipos, but now I am set o getting them.... I've got a few questions..... Wel my current setup is all prometheus parts, a pdi 170(it came slightly weaker than the norm), systema magnum and switch assy, with psypher's mosfet ab with ressetable fuse, deans, basically th works... I believe its ready to handle a lipo, more specifically an 11.1v 3300-4000odd one. Would you guys agree? My questions are as follows, some relate to general batteries, and some lipos, so please bear with me.... What are the good lipo brands? In Nimh batteries I always went for elite, awesome cells, for a great price.... Would the same hold true in lipos? Basically, what is generally thought to be the best, most reliable, high output (like 30c constant, 50c burst) cells out there? Secondly, elites new charger, I believe it is slightly no frills in that you pick the charging output, so for something say 3300 mah, would I want to set it to 3 or four amps per hour charging rate? Or something else entirely? this is th charger in question, and it seems a perfect candidate for m, nd is within a $100 budget with PSU chargerWhat is a good beeper thingy to get? Preferably something from cheap battery packs, as I like to get all my battery things from there.... I looked into the triton chargers, and what kept me back from buying them is that they don't come with built in balancers, and they don't come with a power supply which can get quite pricy... For purely airsoft use, would there be any pint in getting a triton? And if so, what is a good-but-won't-break-the-bank power supply for it? And would you guys say there in any point at all in going with a 4000-odd mah lipo over a 3300mah? Or is it absolutely unnecessary, and a useless price bump? The cells I am currently thinking of are the elite 11.1v 30c 3300mah or 4500mah packs from cheapbatterypacks.com , which are seen on this page. here is the cheapbatterypacks.com lipo selection , would any particular brand and more specifically pack from there be better? would a multimeter or the "lipochecker" seen herebe better, and how would I use the multimeter? Thanks for taking the time to answer all my many questions!

 

There is a lot here I can't comment on, as I've not had first hand experience.

 

What I can say is that in the UK & Europe, Flight Power are seen (by top comp RC flyers) as the no.1 cell. I notice from their website that they are known & used in the US. They do not manufacture specifically for the airsoft market as yet & therefore they do not offer any options for m4 type buffer tubes. (Chuck it away & get a decent gun. )

 

Go for the 3300mah.

 

Your set up should be more than able to keep up, although I think you will appreciate the difference.

 

 

Greg.

[Vercingetorix]

There is a lot here I can't comment on, as I've not had first hand experience.

 

What I can say is that in the UK & Europe, Flight Power are seen (by top comp RC flyers) as the no.1 cell. I notice from their website that they are known & used in the US. They do not manufacture specifically for the airsoft market as yet & therefore they do not offer any options for m4 type buffer tubes. (Chuck it away & get a decent gun. )

 

Go for the 3300mah.

 

Your set up should be more than able to keep up, although I think you will appreciate the difference.

 

 

Greg.

 

What is the most highly recommended/ used lipo/nimh/nicad, etc charger across the pond? how is thunder power? I find that most of the other lipos are more expensive than the elite ones, even though the specs are exactly the same in most cases. This seems like a good bargain t me, because as I said earlier, every elite made product I've owned so far has been top shelf/top notch superb quality..... So I think I'll get the 3300mah elite 30c 11.1v lipo, and give it a try.....

[greg]

1, What is the most highly recommended/ used lipo/nimh/nicad, etc charger across the pond? how is thunder power?

 

2, I find that most of the other lipos are more expensive than the elite ones, even though the specs are exactly the same in most cases. This seems like a good bargain t me, because as I said earlier, every elite made product I've owned so far has been top shelf/top notch superb quality..... So I think I'll get the 3300mah elite 30c 11.1v lipo, and give it a try.....

 

1, It used to be the one I use: Rip max Pro peak constellation, but this is expensive & has now been surpassed by much cheaper models. I will inquire what the name is.

 

2, I would agree, go with what you know. If you have faith in a manufacturer/supplier, use them. I can't comment specifically on Elite, as I've not used them.

 

 

Greg.

 

 

[FaRKle]

Those of you looking for an affordable balance charger from a reliable manufacturer that doesn't require an external PSU:

 

Align RCC-4CX

 

As for Lipo brands: What usually happens is a bunch of different "brands" buy a bunch of the same cells and just assemble them differently. As stated earlier I've had great luck with Zippy H-packs found at hobbycity.com and Thunderpower packs (Thunderpower makes their own cells IIRC, made in USA). Zippy H-packs are incredibly affordable.