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ev1436

What is considered offensive?

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i am kind of curious about wearing non military patches and insignia, such as stuff earned at ROTC, or maybe sharpshooter patches that i have earned.

 

If you've earned it, it's absolutely alright for you to wear it to your discretion.

 

Though you might not want to if you are still in ROTC, etc., just so you don't possibly damage it.

 

But I do wear my Corporal insignia on my uniform, and just spray paint over them if I see a scratch so my SMI doesn't find out ;).

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Think that any patch am gonna wear now is going to be the colonial marines patch, they don't exist and can't peev anyone off (don't have patches on any of my kit), or maybe a ghostbusters patch and then i could put it on my russia kit and pretend am a made up squad battling "ghosts" as in ghost recon the game.

 

I remeber when Micheal Biehn (Not to sure how to spell his name)played a seal in a film called "Seals" and then again in "The Rock" (Also the Abyss) he mentioned about how they appreciated that he tried to be authentic as possible, but didn't kick off at him saying "you didn't earn it" as they understood it was acting and not him saying he was a seal.

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if i were in to milsim and some guy called me out on wearing a badge i would come next time covered in every conceivable military patch i could find and wear a pink afro wig to top it off just ###### him off.

however if i were claiming to actually be part of a unit in real life when i am not then sure, calling me out would be perfectly acceptable and deserved.

 

My thoughts exactly :D.

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Why would I want to take it to PM? This is a discussion, everyone's views are equally valid. I don't have the slightest problem with what you're saying, I simply disagree with it.

 

So what comes along with it? I'm sure everyone is extremely interested in what is fair in your eyes - as a member of the SOF community. It certainly comes across like a threat, although I'm sure I'm reading it wrong....?

 

Its not a threat from me i feel no need to ball some young guy up playing cops and robbers. That just me, the issue is most of my buddies enjoy that kind of thing. There hasnet been a month here were somone hasnt been out at the bar or out and about and eat some guy up for claiming to be somthing he is not, its almost common practice.

 

I think you need to take into account you're on an airsoft forum, that deals with skirmishing and the equipment that goes with it. Not a military forum. Military uniforms like it or not, are part of the package due to the very nature of the hobby. Some people (I'll point out at this point I wear nothing I haven't earned) choose to buy commercially available patches and insignia to make the scenario more realistic for them - this does not automatically mean they consider themselves members of that unit, or affiliated to it in any way.

 

Down to the very creation of the rifles and there carrying methods are designed to look and feel like real military objects. You saying that military simulation is a by product is a attempt to downplay what actually is happening. Real units wouldnt use airsoft if it didnt have a level of realism attached to it you can deny this it is fact. you(being the airsoft community) buy real ballistic plate carriers if this is not to appear military i dont know what is, there is plenty of fake gear to just carry magazines but thats not desired.

 

Its not about if that person feels they are imitating that unit, what it is, preception is reality here is another example. On ft benning there are 75th ranger regiment rangers and there is the ranger training brigade. To outsides they are all rangers because they all wear a tan beret, this is not the case though. RTB has nothing to do with being a ranger besides sharing the name of actual rangers. When you see theses often fat and out of shape guys you instantly think "that guys a ranger? how did that happen." You see what Im getting at, just because the wearer doesnt blatently say "hey im a navy seal" doesnt mean that when someone see's him in public or were ever they wont automatically associate that person with that organization. Believe it or not airsofters you have the ability to mess with a units reputation based off your actions and any identifiers you wear.

 

 

I'd be the first to show distaste towards someone claiming to be a member of any military forces falsely - not just the 'special ones' either at a skirmish, or outside of it. As would probably every member on these forums. However once at a skirmish, you're dealing with a fictional environment. Some people dress up as futuristic spacepunks, some dress as SAS uber soldiers etc, it's costume. To you, a badge represents blood, sweat, and achievement - but outside of your enclosed environment, it reverts to being a badge. That does not detract from its meaning to you, and those you work with.

 

Are you equally offended when an actor wears your uniform in a film? Personally I don't see the difference. I can't imagine anyone at a skirmish event, when seeing someone dressed as a SEAL, actually assumes that person is one. There more likely to think 'cool loadout'.

Yes I cringed all the way through the movie basic when there was a female ranger. I die a little inside any time the NAVY SEALS movie comes on with charlie sheen. I pass out and die when Delta force starring chuck norris is played. Those are extremes but its very annoying looking at stupid actors in messed up uniforms trying to portray soliders. They get paid to do that though airsofters dont.

I've no doubt you'll disagree, and hey - that's fine too. I would however genuinely be interested in why. Even though I'm not in your shoes I am capable, as are others, of understanding the opinions of others ;)

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This really has nothing to do with airsoft but with people pretending to be something they aren't.

 

I was at a bar while home on leave and a "Douche Bag Jock" was wearing a t-shirt that read "USMC" as he walked I said "Hey! you in the Marines" in a friendly voice. He walked by as if he didn't hear me at all, about 5 mins later he showed back up in front of me. This time with 5 of his other "Douche Bag jock" friends and wanted to fight me because quote "You talking sh*t about Marines?" I laughed and said are you serious? As I looked at their faces I could tell they were and proceed to tell them, yes I am talking sh*t about myself, I am a Marine fellas. Then I had 6 guys all buddy buddy with me, so I decided to take off.

 

I guess the point is there are people in and outside of airsoft who act a complete fool by wearing stuff they didn't earn. Being cool or not, I don't see whats so "cool" about wearing stuff I didn't earn so I don't, to me wearing it you look like a fool. :D

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Thats like saying (to the above poster) you can't wear your teams shirt (football baseball what ver its not the point). i have friends and also family who have served in the military and suprisingly if I was to wear a t-shirt or other form of clothing they wouldn't bat an eye lid.

 

If someone pretends to be something they are not then they deserve to be called up for being fake. if it is against the law then let the police deal with it. I youare a service man or not, if you brake the law in a public place they are the best people to deal with it.

 

Also opinions are always good esspecially in a forum as that is the point.

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the issue is most of my buddies enjoy that kind of thing. There hasnet been a month here were somone hasnt been out at the bar or out and about and eat some guy up for claiming to be somthing he is not, its almost common practice.

 

Ok, so wearing a badge can dishonour your unit, but enjoying attacking someone - and doing it so regularly that it's become common practice - doesn't? :huh:

 

Personally I judge everyone by their actions and behaviour. What they wear doesn't really come into it all that much.

 

Can you not see the difference between;

 

1. Someone pretending to be a Ranger/Marine at an airsoft event. Or not even doing that and simply having the correct kit.

 

2. Someone claiming to be a Ranger/Marine at an event, or indeed in public.

 

On the second point, I think everyone agrees with you. On the first, maybe you should lighten up a touch? Either that, or every time you go to an airsoft event - you're going to get really quite upset.

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WhutJP and Smoke covers my views quite well so there is not really any point in going on writing the same again. Speaking on behalf of my airsoft team, we feel that in choosing to imitate a specific unit including ranks and insignia we also have en obligation to do to support this unit in terms of where we buy out things. This means that we get all our parts from the online regimental shop there all the profits goes to the regiment. Now when this regiment have a shop where serving personnel retired personnel, family, friends and supporters can get all that is needed to make an entire load out. Then I say it is fair to use the stuff we get directly from the regiment as civilians (even civilians from another country).

 

Look at is as airsofters paying tribute to the units. We don't try to pass as something we aren't, we are playing a game there a part of it is to achieving a look as close to the real thing is key.

 

At this time of the debate, I feel the need to share my interpretation of it:

Generally people from Europe are OK with airsofters wearing real unit patches, insignia and rank slides as long as people don't try to pass in the public as something they aren't.

The Americans appear to have another culture then it comes to wearing something you haven't earns in blood, sweat and tears.

 

Now as have been mentioned previously, wearing a NY Rangers hockey shirt should also offend the hockey players as people haven't earned the right to wear it through blood, sweat and tears... No that would really be a doll fan culture where you can't show to the world whom you support.

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Ok, so wearing a badge can dishonour your unit, but enjoying attacking someone - and doing it so regularly that it's become common practice - doesn't? :huh:

 

Depends on how you are looking at it, your trying to defend a point of view you support so of course your going to try and make those actions sound like its hypocritical. Its an excuse, your not honoring a unit your not doing anything but trying to be somthing your not. How does a kid wearing my unit insignia honor me at all? If the patch is not that important to you, or if it doesnt mean anything in the civilian world why are you trying so hard to defend the wear of it? Also most people dont wear unit patchs overseas we wear sterile uniforms so how does wearing a unit patch in your airsoft gear make you anywere near trying to be more realistic? We live in two diffrent cultures maybe thats the problem there are things im relaxed about and there are things I take seriously this happens to be one of them telling me to lighten up is not the solution to the issue because I will never lighten up on such a subject.

 

Personally I judge everyone by their actions and behaviour. What they wear doesn't really come into it all that much.

 

Thats not true, simply because of human nature. You would like to think you were so innocent and virtureous that you dont judge people but its against human nature not to judge and classify someone. If you were walking down the street and someone was wearing acu/bdu or whatever you would automatically think that person was in the military. If you were in trouble and you saw someone in a police uniform, you went to them for help and they said " im not a police officer im just honoring them by wearing this uniform and insignia." What would you think? stupid right yea i know.

 

Can you not see the difference between;

 

1. Someone pretending to be a Ranger/Marine at an airsoft event. Or not even doing that and simply having the correct kit.

 

2. Someone claiming to be a Ranger/Marine at an event, or indeed in public.

 

I can see the difference but your problem is your not comprehending what im telling you, wearing the clothing is generally enough to claim or get your classified as what you are portraying.

 

On the second point, I think everyone agrees with you. On the first, maybe you should lighten up a touch? Either that, or every time you go to an airsoft event - you're going to get really quite upset.

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The above most I was like first of all you where just quoting another post but then realised you had put replies in. i think if you contact said militaryt hat you wish to replicate in a skirmish (For what ever reason that be) and the give you answer then you will know where you stand.

 

I think that this thread keeps mentioning people in public, I genrally don't wear full airsoft kit out of the gorunds of an airasoft site. I have worn DPM's or other pants in public, and thats it. No army boots or anything else. If someone ask me in a polite and understanding manner that they think am dishonouring his/her regiment, then I would not wear them in public again.

 

Remember this thread is about airsoft and playing airsoft, not walking round in public wearing military esq clothing (its generally seen as a bad idea and it is not to be incouraged, and i mean wearing a full kit here), lets keep the topic in that reward as we are going round in circles with this hole pretending to be something your not situation. And in england at the moment there are tons of fake camo knocking about that people are wearing, I've even seen a kids one that was of numbers plastered all over a pair of pants that resembled camo!

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Yeah, out at an airsoft game. But really, i'm not worried about what their wearing, i'm worried about what their portraying.

 

Let's say some little pre-teen has a United States Army Special Forces patch that he got from a surplus store, places it on his BDU blouse or on an Admin Pouch, and during the game, makes a complete *albatross* of himself. Does he deserve the patch, no, is he sullying the good name of that particular unit, yes.

 

I mean, who says that a ex-Special Forces member at that game won't come up to the boy and tell him to take that patch off, for he did not earn it. Yet the veteran soldier went through heaven and hell to earn that patch for over a year, when the boy got a ride from his parents or whatever, and paid five bucks for it?

 

 

 

imitation is the highest form of complement. if ANYBODY saw a pre-teen wearing special forces gear i would hope they think "awwww, look at that kid enjoying themselves" rather than "that little s*** doesn't deserve that patch, he hasn't earned it"

OF COURSE HE HASN'T EARNED IT... by virtue of the fact he is a pre-teen he probably isn't old enough to walk home from school unsupervised - much less go for special forces selection! would you give kids playing "cops and robbers" a hard time as they have not pased the police entrance test? WE ALL PLAY A GAME AT WEEKENDS... lets get some perspective here!

 

and for the record, i am a serving soldier in the british army (12 years and counting) with numerous operational tours under my belt. i do not wear rank or patches only cos i get enough of that ###### during the working week! if you have, and you like t, wear it! so what if you have a mix and match, so what if your cap badge was never in "that" conflict.

 

how many people "pimp" or "custom" their cars?........ how many of you have earned a racing licence?

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I don't think that all americans or all europeans are against or like to wear real unit patches I don't think it's a matter of nationality i think it's more personal, in this thread i've seen some american people who told that they don't mind it. So i think that we cannot generalyze about that.

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I've got to agree with the guys who are saying wear what you like,as long as people don't try to say they are in the real unit or try to get away with being a veteran who cares? I'm an ex servicemen myself and don't care if anybody wants to wear a set of submarine dolphins to skirmish in .

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really, if your playing airsoft to do milsim then to not wear the patches of whatever army/unit you are imitating is simply put: failing.

personally im not in to milsim, i mean i wear hunting camo hah, but if someone wants to pretend/reenact a particular unit then fine, let them.

if i were in to milsim and some guy called me out on wearing a badge i would come next time covered in every conceivable military patch i could find and wear a pink afro wig to top it off just ###### him off.

however if i were claiming to actually be part of a unit in real life when i am not then sure, calling me out would be perfectly acceptable and deserved.

have you ever earned anything? ever?

ever work hard for something?

now, imagine that thing you looked or worked hard for was yours. now imagine that someone else, right after you earned or found it, was just given it.

how would that make you feel?

you are a jackass.and were i to ever see someone do what you claim you want to to, there would be some... "words" exchanged.

you people just dont understand. to you, they are just patches, or little pieces of metal. but to us, they are careers, lives, blood, sweat, tears, our wives, our families, and everything else important. because all of that goes into a life in the military. and you think that you have the right to just slap a patch on your left breast pocket because it is only $1 at the surplus store?

disgraceful

-Joe

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Oh look, another sweeping generalisation assuming anyone who doesn't have a problem with patch wearing, hasn't served in the military. Or done anything worthy at all by the looks of it.

 

I think you'll find if you read closely, there have been several serving military saying they're not fussed about it.

 

And "words", another implied threat - so it's ok to act like an idiot as long as you're in the unit your badge is for, but someone acting in an adult manner at a SIMULATION is dishonouring a unit by wearing a badge? I would suggest that in one post, you've managed to smear your reputation far more than some kid wearing a patch at a skirmish ever could.

 

It must be great living in the land of the "free" :rolleyes:.

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This is the problem some americans have with brits. Notice I said some because you constantly be little and make condesending remarks as if you are some how better than everyone. You entice people to get defensive then attack when they do, your snide remarks are no better for this conversation than what was said in his last post. You do come off as a spoiled child regardless of your age. Your basic argument is " It looks cool so i want to wear it and who are you to stop me." Dont make remarks like "land of the free" because your taking this dumb little agurment to a whole nother level of disrespect, I am trying to be civil but you are starting to make that difficult.

 

 

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... this thread is just asking to be locked.

 

Long story short, we're going to have to learn to agree to disagree because there's plenty of people here, both casual airsofters and serving military, who think people shouldn't earn patches they haven't earned, while at the same time there's plenty of people here, both casual airsofters and serving military, who really don't care if someone wears the patch, or in some cases for those in the military, are honored that people want to dress up like their unit.

 

Masakarijoe and D0LCE are in the former category, myself and loki7491 in the latter (just for example). I should hope that our opinions are equally valid.

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Agreed, I would just say its better to not even bring up the subject if your going to wear a patch dont post a loadout pic of you wearing it online. Just do it in the private of your own field. It is true though I may not like what you decide to do I fight for you to have that choice anyway.

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And here we withness another fundemental differance between the cultures on each side of the pond. Americans rarely understand the european humor.

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This is the problem some americans have with brits. Notice I said some because you constantly be little and make condesending remarks as if you are some how better than everyone. You entice people to get defensive then attack when they do, your snide remarks are no better for this conversation than what was said in his last post. You do come off as a spoiled child regardless of your age. Your basic argument is " It looks cool so i want to wear it and who are you to stop me." Dont make remarks like "land of the free" because your taking this dumb little agurment to a whole nother level of disrespect, I am trying to be civil but you are starting to make that difficult.

 

PMSL...

 

So by your logic, actually arguing for my own point of view is belittling yours? Yes, I have a problem with people that are so insecure about their ability to articulate a reasoned point, that they resort to thinly veiled threats.

 

I'm sorry you find my style of writing condescending - it's not intentional. Two nations divided by the same language I guess. You'll notice at no point have I sought to censure any opposing view - yet you feel free to tell me what I can, and cannot write, or remark about? How I come across to you is of no interest to me I assure you, I'll be polite enough not to remark on how you come across to me.

 

As I've said in numerous posts, I agree fully with you in regards to people claiming to be something they're not. But yes, I suppose my basic argument - and only within the confines of an airsoft skirmish - is that "It looks cool so i want to wear it and who are you to stop me". I think I've qualified my argument fairly well, whereas yours seems to be "I don't like you doing that, so you'd better stop or else".

 

This is the problem some americans have with brits.

Dont make remarks like "land of the free" because your taking this dumb little agurment to a whole nother level of disrespect

 

That's quite an impressive level of hypocrisy for one paragraph, well done. <_< If you're incapable of remaining civil, feel free to froth away - I won't be the one who looks stupid because of it ;)

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As this is just turning into an argument about what is essentially a cultural difference of opinion - and the thread was about what was considered offensive in the US, not anywhere else (and the OP has already had their answer) - time for the lock.

 

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