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Hiro

Harder BBs damages materials more.

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Want to warn against using the Bioval BBBMAX (http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=138947&hl=bioval http://www.begadishop.com/catalog/product_...oducts_id=3061) in games where you want to save on equipment damages.

 

Prolouge:

At the international event Berget6 this summer a few car-windows where shot to pieces, as discussed in this thread here; http://www.berget-events.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4767 (no need to register, and in english) apparently the incidents have led to a few changes in rules, but no more than that. I didn´t attend Berget6, and didn´t know about the incident until a few days ago.

 

Last weekend I attended a milsim-style game. At the game the side-windows, and front-window of one of the terrain vehicles used was shot to pieces and damaged. Panic and hysteria almost got the better of the participants, with talks about over-trimmed AEGs and suchlike. We tested the window with PTW 150cylinder, and with a sniper-rifle doing over 170m/s with heavy BBs, without managing to get the same result. Normal BBs will just shatter against the windshield.

 

The we tried the exact set up that was said to have caused the damage, a PTW with 130-cylinder, and Bioval BBBMAX 0,27g. From one meter the BB will get stuck IN the windshield. And it causes large dents in the bodywork of the vehicle.

 

The BBs are see-through, but not glass, according to Biovals webpage the BBs are made of:

Component Weight Percentage

Starch 66.12%

Protein 8.84%

Oil/Fat 4.24%

Crude Fiber 2.67%

Ash 1.29%

Sugars 1.84%

Moisture 15%

(source; http://www.biovalbbb.eu/)

 

What we think is the problem is the hardness of the BBs, they are almost impossible to break with a plier unlike "normal" BBs. This hardness combined with hitting a hard target will cause damages. This time against a windshield. But it can also be car-bodywork, AEGs, radios, plastic belt-buckles, teeth (though to be honest, those are quite vulnerable anyway).

 

We tested quite a few safetyglasses with these BBs without any problems, and they will not make more damage against people.

 

There are a few organizers in Sweden now banning the use of these BBs, at least all the games with vehicles in use.

 

I will end this harangue with pictures of the broken windshield, and I will also press the issue that these damages where done within the games rules, PTW 130-cylinder, and a safety distance of 20 meter.

 

Ruta.jpg

IMG_2858.jpg

IMG_2859.jpg

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Ouch!

 

Thats kinda interesting.....

 

The make up of those bb's is really odd, never new they included so many materials.

 

But seriously if the density and make up of the bb (not the weight) make that much difference to the damage impack it has, them i am gob smacked!!!!

 

I would have thought the fps / bb weight would cause more damage then the bb material...

 

Again... ouch

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daaamn, what about close range to skin, that would be leathal! I looked at the thread and someone was shot in the face (lip) with one and had it removed by a doctor or something, it had penetrated his skin, also another pic on the 4th page shows an entire window smashed out due to being shot at but Berget deny there was any proof it was the glass bb's but im sure you all may have you opinions but these do to me look like the culprit!

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The human skin is more flexible than a car windshield and will absorb the energy with out the BB deforming. Normal BBs will deform on impact with the hard surface of the windshield and absorb some of the energy this way. So the BBs transfer of energy to a soft target like human skin is the same.

 

I'm rather happy with fast that I decided not to go to Sweden last weekend for the Tango-One event, as I'm attending the Mercs4 event this weekend. I have just gotten a new windshield installed after the old one cracked due to a BB impact. Had my landy suffered that kind of damage I would have been VERY sad.

 

As a result of this incident at Tango-One just about all milsim organizers in Denmark have banned the use of the BBBmax. We simply have to many cars attending the games and some of them are the property of the army.

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Bioval .27 BB's are no joke.

I use them in my PTW because they're super hard and slick and feed well however they've already dented and broken a few steel nozzle tips in my rifle!

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Bioval .27 BB's are no joke.

I use them in my PTW because they're super hard and slick and feed well however they've already dented and broken a few steel nozzle tips in my rifle!

 

:yikes:

 

That is some really impressive damage.

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If they're consistent they might be a contender for bolt action sniper rifles, such as the Tanaka m700 series that use metal nozzles, to prevent damage to the bb when it get's pushed into the chamber.

 

Though gas sniper power level + BBBMax would = broken stuff on impact. Most likely

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unless they've got glass at their site using Bioval BB's won't be an issue.

as mentioned previously no problems were noted when they were shot at safety glasses and obviously things like teeth which are already vulnerable should be covered up with a paintball mask if you're worried about losing them in the first place!

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um, considering the damage they did to that truck, i think ill have many site owners on side when i say 'fug right off'

 

As Jenkem said, unless there's glass that they actually care about it should be fine. Most people would be at 328 in the uk anyway. The odd sniper at higher fps shouldn't really do much damage to the property that the organisers would care about.

 

 

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That seems like quite scary ammo there. I'm glad most of the sites i go to all chrono weapons before and keep a strict lockdown on power of weapons.... The thing is why are ppl in the mentioned games using such high powered guns anyway?

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As Jenkem said, unless there's glass that they actually care about it should be fine. Most people would be at 328 in the uk anyway. The odd sniper at higher fps shouldn't really do much damage to the property that the organisers would care about.

not really... curent average is 350.... and im STILL very very very nervous about allowing such material on a site when it does that to glass... imagine what it will do to skin? airsoft is about fun, notcausing pain and personal injury.

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...imagine what it will do to skin? airsoft is about fun, notcausing pain and personal injury.

 

 

The human skin is more flexible than a car windshield and will absorb the energy with out the BB deforming. Normal BBs will deform on impact with the hard surface of the windshield and absorb some of the energy this way. So the BBs transfer of energy to a soft target like human skin is the same.

 

 

 

:)

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I think some people (not just you Bella) are forgetting that skin, unlike glass, had a degree of elasticity which disperses the kinetic energy on impact from the BB which has already been said upthread. Considering that most people have at least a layer of clothing on as well, if you had a 350fps (1.13J) AEG and using these .27s you'll have a muzzle velocity of ~300fps. Considerably less than the 430fps (380fps with .27) an M130 set up would put out.

 

I doubt these BBs would see much popularity here anyway due to the unusual weight and the fact the three main camps (assaulters, DMR shooters and snipers) are catered for with high quality.25, .28 and .29-36 already being produced and has already been said in this country at least the only real customers for them would be snipers, which when you factor in energy bleed off over range, even more so if an MED is in force, these wouldn't pose anymore risk than a normal BB

 

EDIT: Dammit RAF, beat me to the post while I was typing:P

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Are you sure it is because they are harder?

 

As you say normal bb's just shatter - they would suggest to me these bio bbs are less brittle than standard ones.

Being less brittle, instead of shattering they deform, transferring more of the energy directly into whatever it hits.

 

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I doubt these BBs would see much popularity here anyway due to the unusual weight and the fact the three main camps (assaulters, DMR shooters and snipers) are catered for with high quality.25, .28 and .29-36 already being produced and has already been said in this country at least the only real customers for them would be snipers, which when you factor in energy bleed off over range, even more so if an MED is in force, these wouldn't pose anymore risk than a normal BB

 

yeah you're right I wish they were just a .28g and not .27.... weird weight indeed but so far they have been ok for my needs.

 

Are you sure it is because they are harder?

 

As you say normal bb's just shatter - they would suggest to me these bio bbs are less brittle than standard ones.

Being less brittle, instead of shattering they deform, transferring more of the energy directly into whatever it hits.

 

whens the last time a regular old plastic BB shattered when it hit your skin?

they don't so Biovals will be "transferring" the exact same amount of energy as a regular plastic BB that is the same weight.

its just when they come in contact with something hard like glass do they start showing different characteristics than plastic BB's.

truth be told having a plastic BB shatter when it hits my skin sounds kind of scary! would much rather have the projectile stay intact and bounce off me into the dirt :)

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whens the last time a regular old plastic BB shattered when it hit your skin?

 

I mean shatter when they hit the windscreen like the OP said.

As others have said, your skin is soft and silky smooth.

 

Hit windscreen - normal bb's shatter, make no mark.

Hit windscreen - these don't shatter, deform very little, pow - the marks you see above.

 

 

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Wow. After all of this BS talk about glass bbs not being dangerous, I finally get to say "I told you so". Sure, it has the same amount of energy, but the point is that it is harder, and therefor does more damage.

 

So since I was so frustrated at the arguements in the "glass bb" thread, I'll say it again:

 

"I *fruitcage*-ing told you so!"

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glass BB's are dangerous sure, if they break and shatter you get glass shards.

Bioval BB's are hard but they aren't made of glass so they're not as dangerous.

as far as "doing more damage" it sounds like they do more damage to things like glass windshields but as been mentioned already when they come in contact with things that are relevant to airsoft like skin, camo shirts, teeth etc. you should expect the exact same result as a plastic BB that's the same weight.

Biovals are a new thing, I know, but don't be scared of them guys ;)

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Agreed with jenk. In a situation where it hits a surface that doesn't cause it to break normally, there will be no difference from a regular BB. Against hard surfaces that normally shatter BB's they will not do so, and cause more damage. Simple as that.

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What if they contact bone ?

I've had the displeasure of digging a .43 BB out of a mates arm when he ND'd into the underside of his forearm, that BB was barely visible it was so far in,

these things are dangerous, with no deflection they will keep going and all the muppets will be firing them, in this insurance claims rich time we live in I hope site owners think hard about not allowing these to be used, mad concept for use against living things.

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