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Hiro

Harder BBs damages materials more.

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If it's water based won`t the ice expand reducing the density. Which by your logic make it less painful?

 

I think Tome has this pretty much dead on in his explanation. The main danger is to rigid items, usually equipment sometimes teeth and seriously, do not worry about bone. Most of you are quite young and have nice elastic bone, not the increasingly brittle stuff I have.

 

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Hardness is not determined by density. They are completely independent properties. For example, diamond is the hardest known substance, but it is not the most dense known substance.

 

edit: Molecular structure determines hardness, and a lot of geometry can tell you which crystalline shapes are harder.

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First of all, you people need to stop the "freezing a paintball" nonsense. You CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT put a paintball or paintballs into a conventional freezer and have them remain totally solid throughout. This leaves your argument null and void. The "frozen paintball" BS all stems from new players who have heard these silly rumours. I have tested this myself on MULTIPLE occasions. If you leave a paintball in the freezer for a night, a day, two days, a week, whatever, nothing substantial happens. The paint fill simply becomes slightly more congealed, but it still breaks at the same height an un-"frozen" paintball.

 

There have been more than enough tests proving that you cannot freeze a paintball as well as the fact there is no difference between getting shot with a chilled paintball and getting shot with a normal paintball, so drop that argument, now. If you have legitimately FROZEN a paintball in frozen CO2 (dry ice) down to -109.3*F (roughly, probably around -100*F b/c of ambient temp loss) then you will know that they will not fire through a paintball gun correctly because they shrink just enough to incorrectly fit any available paintball barrel, meaning they will not fly in the direction they are aimed 90% of the time.

 

 

 

Second of all, stop saying bioval/glass THAT IS SCAREMONGERING! Multiple people, I'm sure, will read this thread and think Bioval BBBMax bb's are the same as glass bb's?! Oh *suitcase*! Let me go tell all my friends!

 

You're simply spreading misinformation, and while the people that will do that will probably get filtered out by the annual Darwin Awards their buddies who don't visit these forums won't know any better. So please, for Bioval's sake, drop the glass comparison. We already know they aren't glass, alright!?

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:( you ruined my science, man! :P To be honest Ive never even opened a paintball...just heard of people freezing them to increase the owch. Thanks for dispelling that myth.

 

I know theyre not glass. Theyre starch as said earlier. But they are transparent. To someone who doesnt know better, they look like glass. Little Timmy, his mother and the local freaky paper wont know better :P

 

I still wont be playing on a site where these are in use. Now calm down and have a nice cool shower :P

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nope. I still don't see the people who are claiming its no worse than normal BBs showing proof. Just more yakkety yak. ^^

 

which claim in particular are you referring to and what would you consider as proof?

 

If you're thinking of whether they bruise and hurt more the only evidence you're likely to get is completely subjective. I sincerely doubt anyone is going to go to the effort of taking a sample of these and normal bb, then shooting at a spot on a person through a chrono (to check the power). Then take themselves to be examined by a doctor who may or may not be able to say which bruise is the worse one.

 

Dream on young one :rolleyes:

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nope. I still don't see the people who are claiming its no worse than normal BBs showing proof. Just more yakkety yak. ^^

 

Did you not read the first post?

 

We tested the window with PTW 150cylinder, and with a sniper-rifle doing over 170m/s with heavy BBs, without managing to get the same result. Normal BBs will just shatter against the windshield.

 

Then we tried the exact set up that was said to have caused the damage, a PTW with 130-cylinder, and Bioval BBBMAX 0,27g. From one meter the BB will get stuck IN the windshield. And it causes large dents in the bodywork of the vehicle.

 

What more do you want? A video on youtube?

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The claim that it will not do more damage to human flesh.

 

Well then don't claim they're the same if nobody is willing to provide solid proof to back that claim up. Yakkety yak. I'm sure empty talk isn't the sole preserve of old ones. ;)

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There already has been a "live fire test" with these bbs :) We can ask players at that Berget game if there were any complaints from other players regarding these hard bbs hurting more.

 

Even so the "evidence" would be very subjective :P

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Not good enough. we need to control all other variables like the person being shot at, the weapon firing the BB, the distance, angle etc.

 

Personally though I just don't understand why people choose not to err on the side of safety. You'd think that adopting such an attitude is common sense but some people just seem determined to show how much more"clever"/"hardcore"/"leet"/"awesome" (delete where applicable) they are over other people by rubbishing all concerns on the forums.

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It is a shock to see that kinda damage done by an airsoft rifle to a truck windscreen...

 

I cant see why the damage to your skin would really be anything different. A 325 fps AEG hitting you with .2s .3s .45s nobody cares about.. right? because the FPS is lower etc etc.

 

A glass object hitting another hard / glass surface is going to cause damage to one of them. A plastic bb as we all know comes off worse when it hits something hard, i cant see these doing much more damage to human skin then a normal bb imo. But just my view.

 

I dont think i have ever read anything ever relating to the density of bb's (just their weight).

 

The thing that bothers me more then this whole 'glass bb's will kill me' rubbish. Is how so many UK airsoft sites have such different takes on power outputs!

1j of power is 1j..! The whole 328 fps max here, 350 max at another site and 350 max + 500 for single action... this ###### me off more then what kind of bb im getting hit by! 328 fps for UK iis what it should be set at for all sites, for any weapon, getting anoying sinse in returned to airsoft to see such huge variations in the power outut levels of different players guns at sites.

 

bb can be made of steel / glass / plastic.. dont really care, aslong as the gun is kicking out no more then the legal limit. How many people run around with all this bare skin showing anyway..? if your scared of your face or hands getting hit, cover them up.

 

I'm not being hardcore or any ###### like that, but there are worse things to worry about imo. Have the fps limits on funs set to a fixed rate, the margin people are allowed to play either side of at some sites is just to big a gap, the difference between being hit by a 320 fps AEG and a 350 fps AEG will probly be bigger then being hit by one of these glass bbs.

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I hate to say this, but "erring on the side of caution" is probably partly what got us the 1J UK limit in the first place. (Regarless of rights and wrongs i beg that people don't drag the 1j rule into this :) please)

 

It's not that i want to play a more hazardous game, but i just don't see how these bbs can cause significantly more damage to people than normal bbs.

 

For what it's worth i'm not exactly for using these bb as they are reasonably more likely to damage gear than normal ones.

 

As for proof; there isn't any to support the idea that they do cause more bruising either.

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As stated earlier. It is about hardness, not material. The Bioval BBs are not glass, just very hard. I think we all agree that glass-BBs sounds like a bad idea even more so if they break, but this problem is the opposite.

 

Will try to have some tests done with these, to see what they can do in slower velocities, like in the UK.

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I hate to say this, but "erring on the side of caution" is probably partly what got us the 1J UK limit in the first place. (Regarless of rights and wrongs i beg that people don't drag the 1j rule into this :) please)

 

It's not that i want to play a more hazardous game, but i just don't see how these bbs can cause significantly more damage to people than normal bbs.

 

For what it's worth i'm not exactly for using these bb as they are reasonably more likely to damage gear than normal ones.

 

As for proof; there isn't any to support the idea that they do cause more bruising either.

no the problem was that WE didn't err on the side of caution ourselves, so someone saw fit to impose some flakey regulations on us.

 

Same thing with the BBs. do you really want to end up with more regulations on what kind of BBs are allowed (and i bet this will drive up BB prices because suddenly you need checks in place to enforce the new regulations) because we ourselves refused to err on the side of caution with regards to this issue?

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no the problem was that WE didn't err on the side of caution ourselves, so someone saw fit to impose some flakey regulations on us.

 

Same thing with the BBs. do you really want to end up with more regulations on what kind of BBs are allowed (and i bet this will drive up BB prices because suddenly you need checks in place to enforce the new regulations) because we ourselves refused to err on the side of caution with regards to this issue?

 

Well said. Was what i was thinking after my last post. Do we really want another set of restrictions put upon us??!! (not that many people abide by the 1J max rule anyway).

 

Whats wrong with normal bb's anyway..? i cant really see how having a harder bb will make much difference to your performane in a skirmish. Especially here in the UK, with our set power levels, there is nothing you couldn't achive with normal bb's that are on the market imo.

 

 

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i think only people who're claiming it's safe/same/does not cause worse injuries need to provide some proof to back those claims up. For those who're erring on the side of safety, the assumption made is that it MAY not be safe so you don't use it, so no proof is needed. Theres a reason why it's called ERRING.

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i think only people who're claiming it's safe/same/does not cause worse injuries need to provide some proof to back those claims up. For those who're erring on the side of safety, the assumption made is that it MAY not be safe so you don't use it, so no proof is needed. Theres a reason why it's called ERRING.

 

and you're not reading the big boy's posts who have already said "1j of power is 1j" and instead you're sitting there with your fingers stuck in your ears going "lalala I can't hear you".

you remind me of one of those people who don't wear deodorant because you think the aluminum in it will give you Alzheimer’s ;)

 

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Big boys posts, your calling others children just removes your opinions from this debate, come back when you can debate without belittling others,

The mass of the item propelled at 1j will determine the impact, same mass different density will also make a difference as each item will focus its energy in a different manner, more dense more focus,

 

(if some of you were more focussed and less dense this debate would have been over 4 pages ago :D joke ;) chill)

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There is if course a very simple solution.

 

If you're not happy with them being used where you skirmish, tell the site owner about your concerns.

 

If nothing is forthcoming from that.... Skirmish somewhere else.

 

The same basic principles apply to fps, MEDs and all other aspects of the game.

 

Or of course we could all just froth away on the internet and not actually change anything ;):lol:.

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and you're not reading the big boy's posts who have already said "1j of power is 1j" and instead you're sitting there with your fingers stuck in your ears going "lalala I can't hear you".

you remind me of one of those people who don't wear deodorant because you think the aluminum in it will give you Alzheimer’s ;)

And you aren't listening to the fact that HARDNESS (look it up) comes in to play, and the way that 1j is dispersed depends entirely on how hard the objects hitting eachother are. There is only 1j of energy being transfered, but the amount of that 1j that goes into the object and the amount of that 1j that is returned to the BB depends entirely on how hard the object it is hitting is. You are the one with the "lalala I can't hear you" attitude.

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and you're not reading the big boy's posts who have already said "1j of power is 1j" and instead you're sitting there with your fingers stuck in your ears going "lalala I can't hear you".

you remind me of one of those people who don't wear deodorant because you think the aluminum in it will give you Alzheimer’s ;)

 

Okay.

 

So you have 2 3yr old kids with foam swords. They whack each other with em and unless one pokes the other in the eye, neither of them cry.

 

Now give them wooden rounders bats. See if they cry now.

 

Same effort goes into the hit (i.e kiddy bat swing), but which hurts more?

 

---

My science is back!

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Ok, here comes the facts.

 

PTW 90-cylinder, chronoed at 80m/s, from 1,5 meter, Bioval BBBMAX 0,27.

IMG_4846_1.jpg

 

 

PTW 130-cylinder, not chronoed, from 1,5 meter, Bioval BBBMAX 0,27.

IMG_4848_1.jpg

 

Glass-splinters inside the vehicle from the windows after test-shooting.

IMG_4853_1.jpg

 

PTW 90-cylinder, chronoed at 80m/s, full-auto from 1,5 meter at G36-handguard, small crack, Bioval BBBMAX 0,27.

IMG_4855_1.jpg

 

PTW 130-cylinder, not chronoed, from 10 meter, plexi is 6mm thick (lower damage), and dent in car body-work (upper damage), Bioval BBBMAX 0,27.

IMG_4856_1.jpg

 

Also tried on windshield:

 

KSC 0,30 BB from 1 meter, fullauto, no damage.

 

Unknown brand, 0,42 BB, 170m/s from 1 meter, no damage.

 

I let the results talk for themselves, and hope people will take this up with their local skirmish-site. Please do not take me for my word, but do your own tests.

 

And as I can´t edit, can an admin or moderator please edit this into my first post (and maybe change the thread-title to something more serious).

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Bioval .27 BB's are no joke.

I use them in my PTW because they're super hard and slick and feed well however they've already dented and broken a few steel nozzle tips in my rifle!

 

 

I was sent a small batch (like 300BB's) to test, and decided to test them in my Shoei MG3,

these guns (and escort guns in general) often chop some brands of BB's, especially Excel, so I had high hopes of these hard BB's working, especially as the weight was just right.

 

The first few hundred shots went fine, I had no where to test the range so I just shot into a BB-trap at a few feets destance.

Then things started to go balls-up, and when I cocked the gun, locking the bolt in the open position, a discovered much to my horror that the loading nozzle was half a centimeter shorter, malformed and had BB-shaped dents at the tip.

 

While they might be OK to use in ordinary AEG's, obviously some guns will take damage from using them.

The loading nozzle was made of brass, which is a pretty soft metal, and by the looks of it, softer than glass.

 

 

I'm glad my gun came with two if these nozzles, and that the one I used was ventilated and meant for the Japanese <0.98J market.

Otherwise I would be royally ######!

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