Punkypink Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 No no no everyone, we're sorely mistaken about Jenkem. He's got skin that's obviously as hard as his safety goggles. Anything that doesn't break his goggles is fine for use against his flesh. As I said, ESS ICE can take a hit from a real steel .22. I'm sure he's satisfied about getting shot at by .22 bullets too! We've maligned him as you can see. It's our own fault none of us have ANSI Z87.1 rated skin! Link to post Share on other sites
Aitch Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Jesus, are foreheads/knuckles/elbows 100% made of skin, how elastic is the skin on a clenched fist/elbow etc, these glass like BBs could drive in where as standard brick dust BB wont as in the windscreen, since you have experience of these BBs man up and do the test on your forehead (no money where my mouth is, I'm not completely stupid), then the debate is over once we see the damage/lack of. Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Heres my contribution for normal .2 plastic BBs fired from an AEG of not more than 328 fps with .2 BBs, from a distance of 2 ft away. I'm waiting to see Jenkem post similar, except with his beloved Bioval BBBmaxes. I highly doubt he will be man enough to though, so lets not hold our breaths eh? Seriously if those bloody things could break glass and dent steel, what's the chances of them breaking bone when hitting a place where skin is tightly stretched over bone like knuckles, the entire top and back of your head etc? I personally can't say for sure, but I honestly would just prefer to err on the side of caution. Seems foolish not to, especially for the sake of online pride. lol Link to post Share on other sites
John Dee Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Sod skin I would not like getting shot in the nail with that bb. Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Sod skin I would not like getting shot in the nail with that bb. 's ok mate. like the rest of us you're human, not some ANSI Z87.1 rated full body monster like Jenkem What I wouldn't give to have ANSI Z87.1 rated skin, bones, fingernails etc like him. Link to post Share on other sites
freebo Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Mmm the way I see it is if 1 of these things can embed into glass like the picture where as 1 normal BB wouldnt I just would not like to think about it on skin.. Link to post Share on other sites
Catman Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Hmm I think I'd like to test these BBs out for myself - not disputing the evidence but I'd like to see first hand. We used to play quite a bit with a landy (we'll be putting it back in the field shortly) last thing we need is cracked/broken glass and shards all over the place. Safety goggles are typically made of polycarbonate (or similar) which has a lot of flex to it and when hit bounce the BB off. Have these BBs been tested against mesh goggles? This thread seems to rage on a lot about increased penetrating power on skin, I don't see that being a major issue though I find my self umm'ing and argh'ing over whether these BBs could or would increase the chance of bone damage (where there's not much skin) in the form of fractures and cracks - I find myself leaning more towards "no". Quick question This was done in a game? In which case whichever muppet shot this windscreen up, surely they even at 20m away could see the pocks being created on the windscreen? There's about 40 in that windscreen Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Heres my contribution for normal .2 plastic BBs fired from an AEG of not more than 328 fps with .2 BBs, from a distance of 2 ft away. ..... I'm waiting to see Jenkem post similar, except with his beloved Bioval BBBmaxes. I highly doubt he will be man enough to though, so lets not hold our breaths eh? I'm assuming the pic you show is of welts gotten from normal gaming i hope so anyway. If/When someone out there decides to shoot themselves in the forehead with a BBBmax and take a pic, i'm not sure what you're expecting to see (a big gaping hole perhaps ). I doubt the welts will look much different and even in the photo you attached, the two welts look similar, but somewhat different. If you're going to draw any conclusions from pictures you're going to have to get a large sample first for the conclusions to mean much. If you're wanting to go down the route of getting meaningful evidence then a better experiment will have to be thought up. Link to post Share on other sites
expvideo Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Heres my contribution for normal .2 plastic BBs fired from an AEG of not more than 328 fps with .2 BBs, from a distance of 2 ft away. http://xs230.xs.to/xs230/08343/headshotlol540.jpg I'm waiting to see Jenkem post similar, except with his beloved Bioval BBBmaxes. I highly doubt he will be man enough to though, so lets not hold our breaths eh? Seriously if those bloody things could break glass and dent steel, what's the chances of them breaking bone when hitting a place where skin is tightly stretched over bone like knuckles, the entire top and back of your head etc? I personally can't say for sure, but I honestly would just prefer to err on the side of caution. Seems foolish not to, especially for the sake of online pride. lol I don't think they will break bone in places like the back of the hands, head, knuckles, etc, but I do think it will fracture them. I would be willing to test and see, if someone in WA state has these BBs or would like to buy some. I can have them shoot a plastic bb at the back of one hand and a Bioval at the back of another, take pictures to show the difference, and get an xray of both hands to see if there is any fracturing. I think this would be an interesting test and while it sounds a bit painful, it would be a worthwhile experiment to either put these myths to bed for good, or prove that Biovals are dangerous. Also we could test the difference in bruising, and see how teeth (not my teeth... an animal jaw from a slaughter house) react to different kinds of BBs. Damnit, now I'm in mythbuster mode. I'm still trying to talk myself out of buying a bag of these to do these tests. Link to post Share on other sites
freebo Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I don't think they will break bone in places like the back of the hands, head, knuckles, etc, but I do think it will fracture them. I would be willing to test and see, if someone in WA state has these BBs or would like to buy some. I can have them shoot a plastic bb at the back of one hand and a Bioval at the back of another, take pictures to show the difference, and get an xray of both hands to see if there is any fracturing. I think this would be an interesting test and while it sounds a bit painful, it would be a worthwhile experiment to either put these myths to bed for good, or prove that Biovals are dangerous. Also we could test the difference in bruising, and see how teeth (not my teeth... an animal jaw from a slaughter house) react to different kinds of BBs. Damnit, now I'm in mythbuster mode. I'm still trying to talk myself out of buying a bag of these to do these tests. Im with you there, i feel like asking if anyone would buy some and soot me in the head at 20ft with one of these and a plastic one.. see what happens Link to post Share on other sites
Mikeiw Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 A flat panel windscreen. Could that have contributed? Maybe the correct glass wasn't used in an effort to save money by someone? I know that BBs from an AEP can dent a car body panel at 20m, so that's not really a gauge of hard surface impact damage from these things. Most useful question is: Is there any point? a .3g BB of any material will fly the same, so why even bother risking it? I'm sure the manufacturers did their research beforehand too, so maybe those that are interested should ask them? Another option would be to speak to a friendly ballistics expert - lots of cops play Airsoft... someone should know one. They would know.... Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Nice one expvideo literally taking one for the team hehe You'll probably need a similar bb to test against (maybe a guarder 0.28) as it's been said that the heavier bbs get accelerated for more time and thus sometime leave the barrel with more power than lighter ones. Might as well get the FPS for good measure too Link to post Share on other sites
Teeb Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Holy **** thats alot of damage. Wouldn't like to get hit by them. Link to post Share on other sites
expvideo Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Nice one expvideo literally taking one for the team hehe You'll probably need a similar bb to test against (maybe a guarder 0.28) as it's been said that the heavier bbs get accelerated for more time and thus sometime leave the barrel with more power than lighter ones. Might as well get the FPS for good measure too I'm just too broke right now to spend $27 at airsoftNW for the Bioval BBBMax .27 bbs, AND buy a seperate bag of .27 plastic bbs to compare against. Plus paying for a doctor visit to get the x-rays is another $25 with my insurance. That's a $75 test, and I don't really have the money to blow on that. This test may have to wait until I have money again, since I don't see anyone jumping at the offer. If somebody wants to mail a bag of like 100rnds to me, I'll do tests and take pics, but otherwise this is going to have to wait for payday. Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I don't think they will break bone in places like the back of the hands, head, knuckles, etc, but I do think it will fracture them. I would be willing to test and see, if someone in WA state has these BBs or would like to buy some. I can have them shoot a plastic bb at the back of one hand and a Bioval at the back of another, take pictures to show the difference, and get an xray of both hands to see if there is any fracturing. I think this would be an interesting test and while it sounds a bit painful, it would be a worthwhile experiment to either put these myths to bed for good, or prove that Biovals are dangerous. Also we could test the difference in bruising, and see how teeth (not my teeth... an animal jaw from a slaughter house) react to different kinds of BBs. Damnit, now I'm in mythbuster mode. I'm still trying to talk myself out of buying a bag of these to do these tests. If you do that, I'll salute you. Far as I'm concerned, a fracture is really not better than a bone break, I was using the term in an interchangable informal way However I really would prefer to err on the sife of safety with something that dents metal. Those shots I got in the forehead, can anyone here say with any certainty that from 2 ft away the Biovals definately WOULD NOT have caused any damage to the bone, or more trauma to the flesh? Anyone who is willing to make such a claim please put out. At least exp is willing to put out to back his claim up... unlike someone who claims Biovals are ok because their safety glasses(ESS ICE) could take a hit from a Bioval BBBmax. Come on, the ICE could even take a hit from a real steel .22 bullet, as if that says anything about what damage a .22 would do to human flesh and bone. Exp: Many mythbuster programs wishing to investigate effects on human skin and flesh often used chunks of pork with the skin left on. Maybe instead of um, being a human guinea pig, noble as that may be, you might want to consider that 1st Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Shooting dead pig wouldn't work as you wouldn't get bruising and swelling like you do on live flesh. Shooting a live pig .... would be somewhat out of order. Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 hmm... but shooting areas of skin over bone might give an indication of what kind of potential damage it would do to the underlying bone. Pork knuckles anyone? You could even roast it and have a nice meal after you're done testing Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Just a question. Is dead bone the same as live bone in terms of brittleness, hardness and elasticity? Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Probably not exactly, but would still be a good indicator of the possible effects. Freshly dead bone shouldn't differ too far from live bone. Of course the ultimate test is still expvideo shooting himself. Link to post Share on other sites
Chimpy Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 This thread is made of hilarity! Well done Punkypink for shooting herself! Just to add in my experience a stock TM AEG firing normal Excel 0.2g BBs fired from a foot away will puncture and lodge the BB in the skin of an upper lip. It also bloody hurts. I doubt my teeth being under the lip helped matters any. Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I didn't shoot myself Someone else did. It's the price for being ninja Link to post Share on other sites
expvideo Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Probably not exactly, but would still be a good indicator of the possible effects. Freshly dead bone shouldn't differ too far from live bone. Of course the ultimate test is still expvideo shooting himself. I'd rather shoot myself for the test. It may not be as safe as shooting pork, but it will show very conclusive results, and that's what matters. Besides, I have a high pain tolerence and I like winning arguements. A lot. Link to post Share on other sites
Smoke Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 [joke] I'm wondering if those using these bb's have calculated the fps, density, and hardness of the fist coming right back at them? [/joke] Please note I do not condone violence within the game environment, anyone misunderstanding this should seek a humour transplant asap . Link to post Share on other sites
Punkypink Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I'd rather shoot myself for the test. It may not be as safe as shooting pork, but it will show very conclusive results, and that's what matters. Besides, I have a high pain tolerence and I like winning arguements. A lot. I have a high pain tolerance too but I would prefer my bones not to crack You're the man ^^ Please note I do not condone violence within the game environment, anyone misunderstanding this should seek a humour transplant asap . I'll donate some for teh transplant ^^ Link to post Share on other sites
Pablo Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 anyone misunderstanding this should seek a humour transplant asap . Wouldn't that technically require an implant? [/pedantry] Link to post Share on other sites
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