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Marcus

TM SIG P226 Second Opinion

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Gads. Did you try adjusting the hop up?

but the Kimber used for comparison in a few of the photos groups sub-1" from 5" benchrested, and is quite the tack driver when compared to the P226, both in terms of power output and blowback snappiness.

 

M.

Yeah, but isn't your Kimber all upgraded and stuff?

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Wonderful review Marcus, I'm an all WA person myself and I had a feeling most of the people citing their opinions on the gun weren't. Good to see a review by someone of a similar mindset to myself - I'll definitely be buying this but not until the metal slide comes out.

 

In response to a comment made earlier in the thread, I'm pretty sure WA single stack 1911s make up most of their weight in the gun itself, as opposed to the magazine, though of course the latter does up the gram count considerably. At least, I've never noticed the gun feeling "light" without a mag, which I have with a lot of other guns I've owned.

 

And as a response to something else, while Real Glocks do indeed have seamlines, real P226s do not, since they're all metal in construction. That said, seamlines don't bother me all that much - at least not as much as the overall plastic feeling I've been getting from pictures of this gun. Once more metal is available, I'll definitely be sending out an order for it. (Going to give the Sheriff slide a skip unless it is miraculously not overpriced).

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Yep, 5" as in inches, ~12cm. And yes, I thought it was quite terrible myself :P

I'm not an extremely good shot, but the Kimber used for comparison in a few of the photos groups sub-1" from 5" benchrested, and is quite the tack driver when compared to the P226, both in terms of power output and blowback snappiness.

 

M.

 

Well then yours is broken or you aint a good shot mate, mine will still do 5" groupings at 15 metres when wind isnt a factor. Also when you havent got a chrono how do you base your findings of 220 fps when you cannot accurately measure it?

 

Mine does close to 300fps with a settled mag in warmish conditions, so does my mates and Armourpiercing confirms these findings.

 

My review was maybe a little biased in the 226's favour, but i found it hard to be totally objective as it has always been my favourite pistol. However you dont seem to give it a fair chance, comparing it to a pistol that cost maybe 2-3 times more isnt a fair comparisson, also i dont believe there are many GBB's that could get anywhere near to the 226 for speed of blowback/return, and im sure most 226 owners will back this up. Ive certainly owned many pistols, and most seem sluggish compared to this.

 

Sure your arent just a little biased towards WA's theyare good i'll agree but they cost alot more and in my experience cant match the out and out performance of the 226, at the end of the day im a skirmisher and not a collector so i'll take the Sig thanks

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What's that? 5 days?

 

Bit early to give the 226 an 'approved for Green gas' stamp of approval, but I fear we'll be seeing posts saying "I've heard that the P226 is totally fine with Green" within the day :)

 

Cheers.

i have put nearly a can of green gas through it so far

theres no signs of any damage, chips cracks etc

im not saying its totally fine, but its not going to implode after the first shot on green either :P

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Hey guys,

 

No offence, but.....

 

This gun has been long awaited and severely hyped up. Many members have been looking forward to it for ages ( I love Sigs myself ) and I simply get the feeling that the new owners just don't like anything bad being said about it and are being very defensive.

 

There is also an ongoing cost comparison to Wa. To put it simply, compare this to for example, a Cougar 8045 SCW2. Depending on the differing costs for the 226 ( UK ), the Cougar is between £8 to £23 more than the 226, but the difference in build / weight / fit / finish, the Cougar is not only in another league, it's on another planet!........ :P

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Garry, i do agree that it is a very hyped up gun, but it does shoot better than any gbb i have ever used, simple as, and to me as i am a skirmisher first and foremost performance is number 1. The fact that it is a replica of a sig is a big bonus too. I nearly bought a hicapa 5.1 a while ago simply because it shoots so well and i really hate poncy looking 1911/2011 hybrids.

 

Either way i dont care now, i have mine, i love shooting it, if others enjoy shooting theirs as much, good for them.

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Everybody don their fluffy jumpsuits right now :rolleyes:

 

About the estimated FPS; You're right, I can't accurately tell whether it shot at 200FPS or 250FPS, I'm basing my estimate on the other, chronoed, GBBs that I own, which are plenty. I should perhaps have been clearer that I'm not *disappointed* with the P226's power output, it is what it is and you get what you pay for.

 

About the comparison to the WAs; My intention was never to directly compare the gun to the Para and the Kimber, except for size, grip angle, grip thickness and the other things mentioned in the article. The Kimber is not "upgraded" as such (meaning performance-wise, this is the build), but I only brought it up in reference to the lousy-shot theory, ie. I don't attribute the somewhat disappointing grouping to me being a spastic with the motor skills of an overripe banana.

 

About being fair; My intent was never to make a "fair" report as such, everyone has their opinions and if I had loved it and you'd hated it, we'd be in the same position except turned-around. My idea was to report my findings as they were, and perhaps more importantly, put up some halfway decent, non-flash natural light photos of the P226. I, too, love all things Sig (even that b*stard SigPRO), you'll notice that I tried to stay away from comparisons with any other gun or GBB brand. Anything else is inference.

 

Those of you who love the P226, I'm happy for you and I certainly don't discourage anyone from buying this pistol, my only attempt was, and remains, to inform you of what you're getting.

 

Rant over, now give yourselves a group hug.

 

M.

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There is also an ongoing cost comparison to Wa. To put it simply, compare this to for example, a Cougar 8045 SCW2. Depending on the differing costs for the 226 ( UK ), the Cougar is between £8 to £23 more than the 226, but the difference in build / weight / fit / finish, the Cougar is not only in another league, it's on another planet!........ :P

Sounds like the UK people are being ripped off on TM guns at some places. ;) At Uncompany, the new Cougar is priced at $169, and the P226 is only $125, that's $44 difference, and the Cougar is 35% more expensive than the P226.

 

Anyways, I'm a little shocked about the reported P226 grouping here. I was hoping the head shot at 50m or whatever TM advertised. :D I guess there's only one way to find out. Can't wait till my P226 gets to me. :)

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Sounds like the UK people are being ripped off on TM guns at some places. ;)  At Uncompany, the new Cougar is priced at $169, and the P226 is only $125, that's $44 difference, and the Cougar is 35% more expensive than the P226.

 

Anyways, I'm a little shocked about the reported P226 grouping here.  I was hoping the head shot at 50m or whatever TM advertised. :D  I guess there's only one way to find out.  Can't wait till my P226 gets to me. :)

 

5 metres I can put 26 or so rounds through a 1 inch hole and I dont think I'm a good shot, I can also consistantly hit a cola can at 5 metres.

 

I'd say the Sig is as good or better as far as accuracy goes as my KSC Beretta, maybe my beretta isnt as good as I thought it was ? cant test for longer ranges though since my flat is only 5 metres long :|

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5 metres I can put 26 or so rounds through a 1 inch hole and I dont think I'm a good shot, I can also consistantly hit a cola can at 5 metres.

 

I'd say the Sig is as good or better as far as accuracy goes as my KSC Beretta, maybe my beretta isnt as good as I thought it was ? cant test for longer ranges though since my flat is only 5 metres long :|

That's more like the numbers I'm expecting. Marcus, any chance that you might get a defective hop up?

 

Will report back after I get mine, hopefully this week. :rolleyes:

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Please take some time to read my review on this gun:

http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums/topic...?TOPIC_ID=71873

 

I spent a good deal of time on it, as well as going down in person to Impact Games Hawaii to have them look at the internals and use their chrono for readings. On that review you'll find chrono results with both green gas and 134A, along with accuracy results for both gases.

 

Marcus, I compliment you on the brief overview of the gun, but I find too much opinion and not enough fact. I have owned KSC, KWA, Marui, and Western Arms, and I think it's unfair to instantly write off the P226 and compare it to your full metal $500 dollar Western Arms pistols. Please take this as my two cents and nothing personal, I have owned a Western Arms and found it had little cosmetically over the Marui for the price, and as far as performance, the TM HiCapa and P226 I have blow it out of the water.

 

In my review I do admit to the seam lines, although I seriously had to look for them to notice. The gun doesn't feel "plasticky" or is shiny in appearance; the color is a flat black color. Having owned a WA SW1911, much of the weight was in the magazine as well, so Marui is not to blame. With magazine inserted, the P226 has a good amount of heft for a small-medium sized pistol.

 

Overall, I disagree in the overly negative write-off of the P226. If you have a fully upgraded Kimber and don't skirmish with it, that's fine, but the P226 is an excellent performer out of the box for $150. Even collectors should look into the Marui P226, as it does come equipped with full trades and a metal slide is coming on the way. Overall, its the best Sig Sauer offering on the market today, compared to the KWCs and Tanakas.

 

Again, nice review, and I'm glad you could compare this piece to your more expensive Western Arms pieces, but remember, I don't think Marui creates replicas for showcasing, but rather for performance and reliability.

 

Seth

 

EDIT: I do not understand how you achieved your 5 inch groupings. From 20 feet, I had a best 1 inch grouping w/ 1 stray shot and an average consistent grouping of 2 inches using green gas. This represents slightly better accuracy than the TM HiCapa. Others should be aware that the P226 is an extremely accurate pistol, akin to Marui's latest GBB developments, the HiCapa and the Glock Advance.

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Excellent review, Seth. And welcome to Arnie's! Hope you are not just posting this one post to protest Marcus opinion, and not coming back ever. ;)

 

One thing, you said the recoil spring guide rod is metal while Marcus said it's plastic. Can anyone double check on that?

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Again, nice review, and I'm glad you could compare this piece to your more expensive Western Arms pieces, but remember, I don't think Marui creates replicas for showcasing, but rather for performance and reliability.

 

I think Marui are moving more towards showcasing AND performance with the improved markings on the Desert Eagle and P226.

 

Ignore WA for a moment (They divide opinion too widely), KSC make guns for LESS than Maruis cost and they don't feature visible seams (I'm talking of the Berettas now, the Glocks can be forgiven seams, as can Marui's, as real Glocks have them), so (easily found or not - I've yet to see a 226 first hand) there's really no excuse for them on a Marui. If you don't CARE, fine, but it is a flaw that Marui COULD remove if they CARED and it is something that I would like to see them do.

 

Cheers

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The recoil spring guide is definately metal.

 

Snowman i agree totally, but if you want a decent reliable sig gbb this looks like the only viable option until anyone brings out a rival, and i wont be holding my breath for the time being. My tanaka p220 is ok, but its not a patch on the tm although there are no moulding seams anywhere on the gun. WA will never stop churning out endless boring colt variants and KSC seem happy to keep making the pistols that are their bread and butter (glocks and M9's)

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the only thing i dont like about my P226 is the outer barrel

its horribly cheap plastic, feels like the same sort of plastic used in plastic cutlery :P

 

its so comfortable tho, feels much more natural ni my hand than either my G19 or P14.45 :)

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Stoney thats what i like best about the sig p series, its so comfortable and it is so quick to get a target in the sights, cant wait to skirmish with mine, should be a bit of a tool in cqb, just need lots of mags now :D

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Snowman i agree totally, but if you want a decent reliable sig gbb this looks like the only viable option until anyone brings out a rival, and i wont be holding my breath for the time being.

 

Fair point

 

WA will never stop churning out endless boring colt variants

 

And TM try and copy them! :) Here's hoping a successful 4013 might lead to a full size S&W auto.

 

and KSC seem happy to keep making the pistols that are their bread and butter (glocks and M9's)

 

....and their STi 1911s, Pocket SIGs and SIGPros, CZ75s, etc - Bit unfair on KSC, I think... TM don't have ANYTHING like the breadth of offerings KSC do.

 

Cheers

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Fair point

And TM try and copy them! :) Here's hoping a successful 4013 might lead to a full size S&W auto.

....and their STi 1911s, Pocket SIGs and SIGPros, CZ75s, etc - Bit unfair on KSC, I think... TM don't have ANYTHING like the breadth of offerings KSC do.

 

Cheers

 

Tm are good for AEGs but there gas guns seam to suck. Also there gas guns are over priced. I agree that KSC has some of the best range of gas guns out

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Oh good Lord.

 

...and compare it to your full metal $500 dollar Western Arms pistols.

 

Didn't I just say this was not what I was doing? In fact the only comparison I made to *any other gun* was the grip and trigger. I, too, own a WA SW1911 (well, two :P), and the weight distribution according to my sucky bathroom scale is about 60/40 in favor of the gun (vs. the magazine).

 

Anyway, I'm done, this is getting ridiculous. Except to say that I (CQB) skirmish with all my pistols, and they're all full-metal except for the TM Sig :P

 

M.

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Fair point

And TM try and copy them! :) Here's hoping a successful 4013 might lead to a full size S&W auto.

....and their STi 1911s, Pocket SIGs and SIGPros, CZ75s, etc - Bit unfair on KSC, I think... TM don't have ANYTHING like the breadth of offerings KSC do.

 

Cheers

 

No fair do's on that one mate, its just been a while since KSC bought out a totally new model unless im mistaken. It'd be nice to see anyone other than tanaka bring out a decent browning hi power, god that would be nice :) I can dream.

 

I do agree with you on TM trying to copy Western Arms with their Hicapa, but you cant blame em really they must have sold zillions of the things.

 

As you say Snowman, if they are moving more towards showcasing it does look good for TMs future in GBB's if they can perfect their materials and manufacture side of things and keep the same great performance and using correct markings.

 

Dithindious,

 

I dont really agree with you when you say that all TM gas guns suck, it depends what purpose you are using it for. As skirmish pistols they are up their with the best. Personally if id spent maybe £400+ on a kimber full metal jobby, the last thing id be doing with it is skirmishing. I dont think they are overpriced either, they are usually a bit cheaper than a ksc and a lot cheaper than a WA

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Oh good Lord.

Didn't I just say this was not what I was doing? In fact the only comparison I made to *any other gun* was the grip and trigger. I, too, own a WA SW1911 (well, two :P), and the weight distribution according to my sucky bathroom scale is about 60/40 in favor of the gun (vs. the magazine).

 

Anyway, I'm done, this is getting ridiculous. Except to say that I (CQB) skirmish with all my pistols, and they're all full-metal except for the TM Sig :P

 

M.

 

 

TBH Marcus only part I disagree with your review is accuracy, you bought 2 other pistols right? have you tried those in case the one you tested was dodgy ?

 

Also re: plastic finish, slide doesnt bend anymore than my KSC plastic slide for the Beretta .. but it does look cheap, feels warm to the touch and the finish is not as good as the KSC Beretta is/was.

 

When someone does a (preferably not at a stupidly expensive price please) metal slide I'm going to like this sig *alot*

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Okay people, just as with movies, people disagree on what they like/dislike and what they look for. So find someone that shares your taste and listen to what they say. If they're not in similar range of taste, let them be. I read blazing reviews of KJW with a grain of salt, and only come to defense of higher end piece only when it's entirely based on rumors and misconceptions.

 

Also accuracy depends on many factors. Unless one of you has a Ransom rest, broad cross samples of tested pistols, and measured range distance, let another person's accuracy claim be and just post your own. And please, a single headshot after emptying the entire mag does not count...

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No fair do's on that one mate, its just been a while since KSC bought out a totally new model unless im mistaken.

 

H&K USP Compact was the most recent all new model, I think.

 

Cheers.

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