Airsoft ban in Portugal?

[Belgian_Pirate]

Bah, some liberal parties are clearly liberal in name only.

I do believe that the attitude of 'Don't get noticed' doesn't work for airsoft. People are afraid of what they don't know, and if you don't get out there and paint a positive image of airsoft (like paintball), someone is going to have no problem with making up a negative one about you.

[Kaworu]

[politics]Well Belgian_Pirate, some liberal parties are liberal only to oppress you, and a oppressed people is only possible without guns. (and all those discussion about crime rate, drugs, illegal guns, etc.) [/politics]

 

Afterall, good luck for your airsoft brothers!

 

See ya! []'s

[Hedganian]

It never ceases to amaze me how politicians will strive to ban harmless replica weapons under the name of controlling gun crime, which almost invariably doesn't involve harmless replica weapons, but rather illegally owed real steel.

 

It's even more incredible when this is done in countries where owning real steel is legal and relatively easy. The proposals outlined above for Airsoft weapons in Portugal are far more strict than the laws concerning real stell in the same nation - so they're saying that a real M16 or Berretta is less dangerous than one which fires plastic pellets?

 

It's insane.

[Chevieblazer]

Just to give you an idea how bad it can get. this are the standing german laws on airsoft replicas:

 

-everything above 0.5J is considered a weapon, though it can be bought without restriction age 18 and above

-every such weapon has to be marked with an F in a pentagon, along with marks showing the importer and caliber (hence, import of any airsoft guns or firing mechanism related parts is illegal)

-the have to fire semi only

-the attachment of lights, lasers and any devices that "illuminate the target" is illegal, as is the possesion of any such devices that include a mounting system

-every modification to the internals of such a weapon has to be done by a licensed gunsmith and approved/registered by the "Beschussamt"(a department for guns and shooting, so to speak). that does not go for external modification, but if you replace the part with the mentioned "F", you still have to do it to get the "F" back on

-playing is only legal on privately owned ground wich is sufficiently fenced in to not allow any shots to the outside. if such a playingfield is not registered as a playing field with the authorities, every single game needs to be permitted by those authorities (aka the "Ordnungsamt") in advance.

 

basically, a big load of *suitcase, and cops can still impound your "lethal weapons" at will and try and sue you for possession of illegal firearms.

which is why I play exclusively in belium

 

Guys I wish you all the best. Let's hope Portugal doesn't fall in line with germany and The Netherlands with their attempts at winning the record for the most retarded gun laws

 

Regs

Cole (the unfortunately still german)

[AustrianGuy]

I have to agree with Chevieblazer, germany has by farthest the most brain-removed airsoft laws possible, without restricting airsoft completely. For me its just unbelievable how Airsoftguns <1,5J could somehow be considered as Guns. Guns sevierly HURT AND INJURE people, in ways that may even cause death, Airsoftguns dont do this, they just look like it. Like a latex Sword for example, its great fun to beat up your brother with it, but no one gets somehow sevierly injured, it just looks like it....

 

But the worst thing is: nobody who has the power to change laws gives a **** about airsoft. Like already said, its only a playball in the game of frightening the public, so they vote you, or get a badguy for the public, so they dont consider not voting you. And in all this voting and popularity game of politicians we are the ball which gets tossed around, and you cant do anything.

 

To force politicians to do something you need a vast, i mean a vast vast amount of people to lay pressure on them, with an underground sport like airsoft thats just not possible because we don't have the amount of people to do it. in the eyes of the public its just a game for wierdos and nazis who wanna pretend killing people, poor poor close minded world...

 

what to do about: i don't know, take the organizations and put pressure on it, i really hope that everything turns out alright in portual! mellow.gif

[Gazaam]

Well, the 1st official debate/analysis between politicians for the new law proposal in on the 10th of October. We should know how it swings shortly afterwards.

[UrPeaceKeeper]

I hear you, I miss the time I spent working in California. But the food and wine here are soooo much better....

 

Quoted for Truth. I live in the Midwest (which is ironic because I'm smack dab in the middle of the US) and we have a very very deep German heritage. As a result, most family owned eating establishments have really really good food. Provided you stay away from fast food most of everything else is alright BTW, I really miss Europe. England, France, and Germany were some of the best weeks of my life. Sorry to say though, Germany was my favorite

 

Anyways, I really hope this gets sorted out. I'm glad to see that you guys still have a fighting chance. One of the most frustrating things is when you get a political entity hell bent on ruining entertainment. I think your best bet is to improve upon the UK's system and press for stricter ruling.

 

I dont know if it's the same for you guys in Europe but I could walk into a Walmart and purchase a cheap airsoft gun for less than 40$. Worse yet, I could send in a 13 year old boy and he'd still walk out with one. Without education, and restrictions that are enforced you cant reduce any crimes commited with airsoft guns. But the issue at hand is obviously not one caused by the misuse of airsoft guns but of gun crime somehow being linked to airsoft gun use. You need to find a way to cut that link and seperate yourselves in the mind of the public and the political parties to clear your good name. I find it laughable when people accuse me of training for terrorism when I'm trying to become a police officer. It makes no clear sense. I'm sure somewhere, in the 300 million people in the US that somewhere, someone is training for crime using airsoft guns, but that is definetly not the majority. To think otherwise is like trying to point out that terrorists could train using water guns. We should ban those too!

 

If I were in your situation I would honestly push for a unified airsoft body in Portugal with emphasis on openly discussing the topic to the general public. Push for established playing fields, and if you can see if you cant get yourself on the news showing the positive aspects. But keep in mind that there is always negatives that should be addressed as well. If you have local police officers playing then have them speak up, or government officials, bankers, or whatever you have that the public looks up to as a "positive roll model." Focus on educating the public and showing them there is no harm and I think you can pull through the majority of the terbululent water. The last step is giong to be regulating the sales of airsoft guns. Because I for see this as being a problem. People should not easily be able to get them like in my Walmart example. Make people sit through video's about the safety etc, make them get liscenses whatever. You need to set up rules that put you guys in control of your future.

 

Although governments tend to be very stubborn on the issue of crime. I cant wait for our own elections to see how long it is untill my real firearms turn into weapons (note: there is a very very big difference between a firearm and a weapon) when they are used mearly for target shooting...

[Gazaam]

Well, by far and large the public has no idea what airsoft is - whenever I need to explain, I always go something like "You know paintball?..." and then I point out the differences and similarities. Somehow most people always frown when i mention the honor system

 

Anyway, you can get cheapo chinese springers just about anywhere, be it in a common store or on a fairground, and no one will ask you anything. However, to legally purchase an airsoft weapon, it requires you to be over 18, and to be registered with one of the two player federations, which in turn also requires you to have a clean criminal record.

 

Now as far as authorities go, I can understand their point of view - I'd very likely react in much the same way if a person pointed a real weapon at me, or an airsoft gun - it would certainly be perceived as a threat, and morons that do that to law enforcement officers, or in fact to anyone outside a playing field deserve nothing less than a trip to the local detention facility.

 

Most games are played by responsible players, on marked playing fields, with permission from the field's owners, and the local authorities are notified. It's a shame that we get treated in much the same way as a group of numbskulls running around in an urban area, dressed up like Bin Laden's possee, in plain view of uninformed public.

 

I am all for stricter rules regarding access to any kind of firearm/weapon/airsoft gun, as long as the sports for which they are used are not jeopardized.

[UrPeaceKeeper]

Now as far as authorities go, I can understand their point of view - I'd very likely react in much the same way if a person pointed a real weapon at me, or an airsoft gun - it would certainly be perceived as a threat, and morons that do that to law enforcement officers, or in fact to anyone outside a playing field deserve nothing less than a trip to the local detention facility.

 

Usually pointing a gun-shaped-object (toy or otherwise) at a police officer in the states is a gaurenteed one way ticket to the coffin. And rightfully so. That is definetly responding with like force for a self defense claim especially since you didnt know it was a toy when he started the ordeal. The police have the right to make this choice, thankfully, "It's me or him" and I can guarentee if you ask any Police Officer it's always going to be him!

 

I'm shocked and amazed at the work you guys have done and they still wish to remove you from the world That is very frustrating from my standpoint because they mean good intentions to the greater public but it's not going to make a snowball's chance in hell of a difference on the streets especially since you guys actually have a legal system in place to purchase them. Dont you guys think you could take some of these stores that sell chinese springers and what not to underaged people to court and point out how they are breaking the law in doing so? That certainly would be a step in the right direction!

 

[Hedganian]

In which case, what is the point of the orange muzzle required by us federal law and similar law in other places?

 

Does it not occur to these people that a criminal could paint a real gun orange?

[UrPeaceKeeper]

In which case, what is the point of the orange muzzle required by us federal law and similar law in other places?

 

Does it not occur to these people that a criminal could paint a real gun orange?

 

Hedganian the US Federal law states for sale and "transport". The later is left open for debate as it's never clearly defined. In my mind transport refers to the movement of the product accross state lines by parcel carriers. (USPS, UPS, FedEx,etc) Post purchase the orange tip is only required in some states... most make no specification as to what.

 

Your point stands though, what is to stop a criminal from painting a fake gun black or a real one orange... well... money and not much at that... a can of flat black paint is 3.85$ here and you only have to be 18 to buy. orange paint (like field marking paint) could be picked out of the trash at a work site for free since they always use that stuff and throw out partials.

 

The only way to stop crime is to get it at the root levels. If you are going to try and pass legislation about something then make harsh penalties, monetary or otherwise, to make it less likely to happen, but going to far can cause the population to disrespect the federal/state government. It's a fine line.

[Hedganian]

The way to deal with crime is to deal harshly with criminals - it's most certainly not to ban objects (especially replicas which by definition aren't lethal anyway) nor is it to make more criminals by outlawing perfectly safe sports.

 

But we all know this, but the governments will still do it, because they're not really trying to fight crime, they're trying to get cheap votes.

[MinisterofDeath]

The 1997 North Hollywood shootout in the USA took place while we had an assault weapons ban in effect, but of course that didn't stop the bank robbers from using AK47s. Then again neither did the US 1934 National Firearms Act that requires registration of all full automatic real steal firearms prevent them from finding unregistered and hence illegal full automatic AK47s.

 

The UK has some of the strictist firearms laws in the world and last summer I remember reading about a criminal shooting outside a club using a fully automatic machinegun.

 

Bottom line is where there is a demand there will be someone to meet it. Criminals break the law that's what they do and the idea that you can just legislate away all your problems with Draconian gun bans has been proven false.

 

Registration and tougher penalties for those who break the law using firearms or who possess unregistered firearms would be more than enough to accomplish the government ends. Outright bans on inanimate objects regardless or the individuals is absurd. Target criminals and use the governments time to improve economic conditions and you'll have a safe community.

[DanHS]

There should never be any kind of registration for firearms, it just creates a hit list for the government to know who to visit to confiscate weapons. The Government has no right to know what weapons you own, or replicas for that matter. The government should be concerned with finding real criminals, improving education, and strengthening the economy, if they want to reduce crime. So far I have seen very little of that, and very much bs lawmaking. In the US we won a huge victory for gun ownership rights in Heller vs District of Columbia, by a one vote margin in the Supreme Court. We're still terrified that after the next election there will be a wave of attempts at overturning all our firearms rights. Airsoft would surely go with them. Luckily we have the NRA, and the fact that nearly every gun owner in the US would refuse to turn over their guns. I'll never understand how the public thinks that stricter laws will do something to stop criminals who already break any law in the first place.

 

Do not let them take anything from you, fight as hard as you can, do as much as you can to educate the public and the politicians, show the politicians that if they treat you right you will return the favor, but if they treat you as criminals you will show everyone how they treated you. A lot of people are unaware of the insane law making that goes on, inform as many people as you can how you are being threatened by useless laws.

[Hedganian]

There should never be any kind of registration for firearms, it just creates a hit list for the government to know who to visit to confiscate weapons. The Government has no right to know what weapons you own, or replicas for that matter.

 

 

This is foolish, dangerous and naive. There is clearly a need to control the kind of people who are allowed to legally buy, own and use firearms and other weapons. Convicted criminals, especially violent offenders, the mentally unstable, and certain other individuals who would pose a danger to themselves or others should not be allowed to own such potentially deadly weapons. I can't think of any sane person who would argue otherwise.

 

EDIT: Speelings...

[HeartBreaker1317]

First of all, I'd like to say good luck, and give all my support to my Portugese brothers and sisters! You're an honourable bunch, and you deserve to keep on playing - I can only hope your government sees that.

 

Hedganian: I'd like to think that DanHS means that there shouldn't be a list of who owns exactly what, not that there should be no regulation of firearms whatsoever. The state certainly should make sure that people aren't purchasing automatic weapons without proper certification, but I agree that there shouldn't be a 'master list' of all firearms and their owners. Too much Big Brother in that.

[Hedganian]

Would someone like to explain to me how you are going to regulate the sale of weapons to only those deemed suitable to own them without keeping some kind of record of who has successfully gone through this process?

[HeartBreaker1317]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear:

Have a record of people who may own what,

Have a record of if/when said persons make a purchase, but not what they purchased.

 

That's what I meant to suggest. The second part I'm not sure about, because it's tantalizingly close to listing what they bought, which would be an unnecessary invasion of privacy in my opinion. One could even go so far as suggesting each purchase be numbered, and have the firearms correspondingly numbered, but do not log what they are, so in the unfortunate event that they were used in a crime they could be linked to someone, without invading the privacy of the individual without cause.

 

Edit: and I apologise for going off-topic. If anyone would like to continue this line of conversation, let us take it to a different thread or pms.

[tommythegun85]

thats a shame, i gotta be honest its gonna happen in uk some point,

[STUNTMAN]

Dear friends,

 

After 2 years of gun law in Portugal, where aisoft was involved, sad news for us. a new law was aprooved today. Here is the sad news.

 

The old law said partial red ou yellow painted gun, without saying where. We allways paited the flash hider. Now:

 

 

- Small guns (Minus 30 cm) - 5 cm starting the barrel and tottaly fist (hand grip) painted.

- Long guns (Plus 30 cm) - 10 cm starting the barrel and full stock painted.

 

 

All airsoft guns must be aprooved by our police.

 

To buy and use airsoft guns we must be federated and the federations sign on our police and sport institute.

 

Foreign players can play in Portugal withou painting and with limits up our law (1,3J) but to do that, must be federated and our police must be infomed by that federation on that. The permit it's for the game duration.

 

We can buy inside EC (European comunity).

 

For now it's this... sad news.

 

Lets us wait for better days.

 

STUNTMAN

[Gigueand]

Sad news indeed, Stuntman. But at least you can continue to play.

 

If you ever come over to the U.S. I've got an extra barrel and extra stock (in black) you can slap on!

[Hedganian]

Man, that sucks.

 

I've never understood the whole "paint part of the gun orange/red/blue/pink/whatever" concept - like a real gun can't possibly be painted orange....?

 

Keep the faith and keep lobbying for more sensible laws, but like the man said, at least you're not banned outright.... yet...

[apmaman]

Like the UK's two toneing, but for everyone.

 

It sucks but at least you can still play.

[Joshua_Rose]

I feel for you guys, and hope it doesn't come to this here...

 

...as some very dedicated folks here (thanks guys) argued, it spoils the sport when the gats look like ray guns...

 

...but I suppose it isn't an outright ban.

 

 

Small consolation though.

 

 

 

[Mat]

Like the UK's two toneing, but for everyone.

 

It sucks but at least you can still play.

 

As said above, at least you can still play.