MagnumBB Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Whoa guys, I go scouring through hordes of guns and come back to this? ...jk... ( BTW, I am sitting in my motel room now with a PPSH-41 parts kit and several deactivated drums... ) I don't mind the talk of my regulator setup and its uses/limitations, But please keep it to it's thread. At the request of several people, I'll am stating that the kit will be a hybrid of the kokusai crimebuster and the mgc 10/22 nbb engines. Exact drawings, design notes and etc will be kept secret, but you guys will understand a little more on how it will work. I like the kokusai's design for it simple rugged nature and I like the MGC's engine for its smooth trigger pull and rapid firing capability. The way I've thought of the kit so far, it will have 3 options. 1. I can include a tank with a fill valve for those who wish to use it with green gas 2. I can drill/tap said tank and add a compression/QD fitting for those who want to power it externally via co2. 3. have a modified Cold Shot housed inside the stock 1. is pretty straight forward... 2. is for those who already have a co2 rig from classic guns or will be swapping their cold shots with their tanaka's/vsr-10's/kjw's ( possible best performance) 3. is pretty straight forward, means there will be 1 kit (Cold Shot) for the gun and it will be inside the stock. If users need to service the rig or swap it to another gun, the gun will need to be opened. This option will also be priced slightly cheaper since I won't have to build a green gas tank/expansion chamber. Link to post Share on other sites
Mech_E_Travis Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 May I suggest stealing an old idea from Western Arms Classic era NBB's? These had a very light trigger pull due to the fact that they had a fixed barrel, with a moving chamber to load the BB rather than moving the whole barrel. This is also quite good for accuracy. If you already have a better idea, disregard my ramblings completely Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Yo mag, if you want to toss ideas then let me know, ive owned both those guns. Crimebusters had a really nice setup, but the trigger pull was a bit too rough and it was prone to leaks because of how the feed was seated, and it wasnt as accurate as it could be because of the huge effect lube had with the system. I don't know what you have planned for the hammer bits but if you left a little meat on it like an eyelet that the end user could attach weights to to tune his to where he wants it, I know /I/ would appreciate it ;-D Ideally, you could sell a QD fitting that could go in place of the fill valve for the classic crowd, and the current chamber could just be used as an expansion chamber (MOAR ACCURAZY!) that would let you standardize across versions as long as where you have the fill chamber is doable, if its not, why not just move the fill valve to wherever you were going to tap it for external? I guess im a little fuzzy on why you need 3 separate options rather than one "engine" that can attach to one of the three "sources" Link to post Share on other sites
MagnumBB Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Yo mag, if you want to toss ideas then let me know, ive owned both those guns. Crimebusters had a really nice setup, but the trigger pull was a bit too rough and it was prone to leaks because of how the feed was seated, and it wasnt as accurate as it could be because of the huge effect lube had with the system. I don't know what you have planned for the hammer bits but if you left a little meat on it like an eyelet that the end user could attach weights to to tune his to where he wants it, I know /I/ would appreciate it ;-D Ideally, you could sell a QD fitting that could go in place of the fill valve for the classic crowd, and the current chamber could just be used as an expansion chamber (MOAR ACCURAZY!) that would let you standardize across versions as long as where you have the fill chamber is doable, if its not, why not just move the fill valve to wherever you were going to tap it for external? I guess im a little fuzzy on why you need 3 separate options rather than one "engine" that can attach to one of the three "sources" Hey TDS, When the time comes, I'll definitely look your way for some input. I had the same thoughts about the Crimebuster system. The long and rough trigger pull really turned me off and it usually meant my shots were off because of the strain. That is why I love the MGC 10/22 system. its trigger pull is significantly lighter and follow up shots are much easier to accomplish. The only thing that concerns me is that the MGC 10/22 engine is a cast pot metal while the crimebuster is mostly machined brass. For a small project with a run of lets say 100-200 units, machined is ideal to bypass setup costs. I'm not even sure yet if we'll be producing our own shell or piggy-backing off lets say an echo1 V7 gearbox. I'm hoping that I can try to do what escort tried to do with their drop in escort kits and more-or-less have the engine wedged in between 2 plates that will fit into the spot a v7 gearbox sat. As far as the options go, I think you might be a little confused. I plan to have 1 engine at first with 3 powering options. As far as it goes, I might as well scratch the 3rd, ie having no resovoir/expansion chamber, and just include it for sake of simplicity. green gas users will fare well, and classic/Coldshot users will have an insane amount of expansion. I will most likely copy the gas chamber from the 10/22. It was a 3/4 inch by 8 inch tube with a fitting on one end and a fill valve at the other. Link to post Share on other sites
L4byr1nth Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 When talking about good/bad consistency, please post numbers. Well tuned and maintained VSRs have 0-2 fps shot-to-shot consistency with high-quality BBs. Regulated CO2 is not exactly the best medium to replicate that - see cooldown, regulator creep, pressure spikes, lubricants added to some CO2 containers, enviromental temperature vs CO2, position of CO2 container, etc.) What about HPA? Goddamn smug VSR owners... Ben. Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 HPA is better and more stable choice, of course. And more expensive. Drawbacks: less shot per volume and typically large, hard to hide containers. Link to post Share on other sites
Beast06 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Any update yet? Link to post Share on other sites
MagnumBB Posted December 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 Project is progressing... Because of snooping eyes from a certain manufacturer, I am going to refrain from posting pictures until it is production ready. I'd rather not spend hours + money into a project and have a company swoop it from under me because they have 10 engineers who can copy, but have no creativity to make their own. Such is the nature of business. Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 Yer killing me dude Link to post Share on other sites
scar527 Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 Will this work with the CA m14? Link to post Share on other sites
Travis_2 Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 would it be possible to make it blow back? Not a huge jolting feeling, just enough to up the rof and give it a nice trigger pull. I think it would be best to go external HPA or co2. I think people would waste a 12g pretty fast with a double action, or semi auto. Link to post Share on other sites
MagnumBB Posted December 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 Blow back itself will increase gas usage. the aim of a nbb system is for pure performace. have little wasted energy and have it all focued on propelling the bb. As much as I love blow back, ( I love my escorts) because it requires additional engineering and gas to power it, it would be a serious drain on resources ( available gas) making the jump to GBB would need more moving peices and increase costs. My goal of this is to come out the average cost or be cheaper than upgrading your v.7 gearbox to 450-500 fps reliably ( reinforced gearbox, new bits and bobs and etc) making it blowback would add more parts to the 4 parts, 6 pins, 3 springs and nozzle that I have now. being only a limited run of 250 units will also put a hamper on things. As far as the CA m14, I haven't decided yet. Because my goal is to have them function between 2 plates, the plates would be the deciding factor in where they would sit. v7 was first because of its wide availablity for a DMR platform and to stray a bit from the failed madbull 47 co2 box. Link to post Share on other sites
MagnumBB Posted December 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 Yer killing me dude Ok, I'll cave in a little early, but lets just say an angry bovine has many sneeking eyes. Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 are you making a monsterairsoft gearbox? http://www.lonestarairsoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6994 Link to post Share on other sites
MagnumBB Posted December 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 Sorry I am not. I'm working on something more akin to the MGC 10/22 engine. In this case, MGC stands for Model Gun Company (or Corporation), Not Monster Gas Cylinder No batteries are involved. 2 completely differing designs. All functions (moving the valve body, loading the bb into the chamber, and allowing the hammer to actuate and fire) will be all integrated with the trigger pull. While the idea of replicating the Monster gas cylinder is quite a prospect, I don't fully understand its workings, as well as believe the system is still too complicated. Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 its a very simple system,normal gearbox but the piston hits a valve,thats it. Link to post Share on other sites
Pendra Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 I have made a design for a similar system, using a standard valve from a GBB pistol and connecting your ColdShot unit into it. The only somewhat problematic part is to make sure the valve doesn't stay open because you let the trigger go. Otherwise it is a very simple system made from a single aluminium bar. As it replaces the standard cylinder only, it would fit into any gearbox, that uses standard diameter cylinder. I will try to shrink it to fit into an MP7 AEP gearbox. That would fit into any possible gun and yield nice FPS. I haven't started to build yet, because the ColdShot is stuck on customs and I'm still looking for the best valve (accessible, reliable, powerfull, small, cheap) Link to post Share on other sites
Travis_2 Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 No batteries are involved. 2 completely differing designs. Good, I would have bought an AEG a long time ago if I didn't think batteries were so lame. Electric guns, recharging, pshhh. Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Agreed, but one that could fit an MP7 and run off external gas bringing its fps up to reasonable levels would be beyond awesome. Link to post Share on other sites
crump3t Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 As soon as any sort of release date/production date for this kit is announced, I'll tear down my M14/M25/thing and eagerly await its arrival. Although... gas-powered+650mm tightbore=too hot? uh oh... *mwahahhahahaha* Link to post Share on other sites
black shot Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 man I've been waiting for something like this for ages, gas with cheap mags , any chance of you making co2 kits for other aeg types down the road? Link to post Share on other sites
Apache137 Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 sounds like the price wont top 500.... if so count me in for a couple. would like one in my m21 or dmr project.... i've also got a crimebuster... i didnt think the trigger pull was bad at all, but perhaps thats cause i had a leak at 100psi... so it may not have been the full felt trigger pull.... must fix leak. Link to post Share on other sites
MagnumBB Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 sounds like the price wont top 500.... if so count me in for a couple. would like one in my m21 or dmr project.... i've also got a crimebuster... i didnt think the trigger pull was bad at all, but perhaps thats cause i had a leak at 100psi... so it may not have been the full felt trigger pull.... must fix leak. Top $500?! Maybe with a Cold Shot unit included... Actually no, I don't see this costing more that 400 w/ a Cold Shot. Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I don't see this costing more that 400 w/ a Cold Shot. GIVE! Link to post Share on other sites
MagnumBB Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Plastic Prototypes are coming along. ( As part of my self censoring, I will not be showing pictures of the unit) Need your input guys. First, I planned to keep the valve in the unit fairly accessible for those who wish to open her up and tinker with her. I've been leaning to the TM 1911/Hi-capa magazine valve because it seems every aftermarket part maker out there with interest in GBB's has their own version and it means more available options for end-users Second part, This is more addressed to TDS, I am not sure If I am able to design a variable weight hammer for user adjustable, I am trying to Incorporated lead weights that can be mounted to the hammer, but because of the space restrictions I have, its been a headache. Third, A layoff rumor has been floating around at work, So I'll be toning down my airsoft related expenditures fairly soon. This might or might not affect bb production/ Drop Kit / Future projects. My budget is fairly limited now, but if I have no incoming income, I won't be able to produce anything. Remember guys, I am only 1 guy with a 40+ hour work week and classes on my back. Link to post Share on other sites
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