TheEgo Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 me too mate (last wknd at dragon valley) was using a 9.6v1600 batt with mini tamiya To me that's slightly disconcerting that you are having this lockup issue with (I assume a socom style recoil m4) as this suggests it's not the rear connector in the Sopmod stock causing the issue. Unless for you it was spamming the trigger like a mental patient, which was I believe could have been the cause for some of my lock ups with the standard 8.4v battery. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 Theres no way to know all we know is the lock up is caused by an incomplete cycle, sometimes its trigger pull related sometimes its power related. When he switches to lipo and deans, if it eliminates it we know it was battery or connector issue, if it doesnt it could be trigger discipline or something i cant figure out ! a scary thought indeed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrezzy Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 I am positive that with a mosfet + AB, those lockups will cease to exist. Especially when it's paired with a 7.4V lipo or 11.4V. When I had my tm with the mosfet, i noticed the firing was a lot more crispier. Problem is finding a small enough mosfet unit to run it through a Sopmod stock tube wiring canal... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 I dont know a lot about these things, but as you said, weight is key in the felt recoil so I think it can work. But what worries me, is that it may make the AEG less reliable... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
druid799 Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 To me that's slightly disconcerting that you are having this lockup issue with (I assume a socom style recoil m4) as this suggests it's not the rear connector in the Sopmod stock causing the issue. Unless for you it was spamming the trigger like a mental patient, which was I believe could have been the cause for some of my lock ups with the standard 8.4v battery. Yup it is a SOCOM , don"t think its the trigger control , as i made a point of not snatching for this very reason after previous post in relation to the problem , so as i said see what happens after i"ve changed to Deans (fingers crossed! ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 I dont know a lot about these things, but as you said, weight is key in the felt recoil so I think it can work. But what worries me, is that it may make the AEG less reliable... The recoil weight if you take it out, seems to cuase a 1 RPS rof decrease. So doubling the weight should further decrease ROF by another 1 to 2 RPS. No way to avoid it, but i cant see it cuasing problems, Its a tighter design and smoother than the other so im hoping this in turn speed things up. All i can do is give it ago and see the results, i might fit it and notice a big difference i might fit it and notice no difference lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnakChan Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 Sorry for the broken lynk http://www.rsov.com/index.php?target=products&product_id=5045 Thats it Wow that's pretty much what I bought for my Sopmod but a lot cheaper than what I paid for in Japan! Thanks for the good find! I dont know a lot about these things, but as you said, weight is key in the felt recoil so I think it can work. But what worries me, is that it may make the AEG less reliable... Agreed with you. I've kept my Sopmod as stock as possible in fear that something will break. My friend's mechbox has broken before and in early Sopmod posts in this thread, you'll read others have broken tappet, etc. In a heavier recoil weight, it's the wall that separates the recoil weight from the spring guide/spring in the buffer tube that worries me. Will post pics up of my ever evolving Sopmod esp when I get my AFG. I find although the Magpul ACS stock fits, it's a very tight fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 The wall doesnt worry me the whole tubes cast prity well, its all one peice it would be hard pressed to break, the threads would conern me. Alot of people have been poorly fitting the stock tubes, so extra recoil and a bad fit would break it quicker. broken tappet plates, nozzles and gearboxs can all be put down to user error. In correct operation theres no reason why these items should break. In fact ive seen 3 striped sopmod pistons all have been striped due to incorrect installation. Even the dodgy connectors on the back can be put down to abuse and movment on the stock over time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
druid799 Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 Will post pics up of my ever evolving Sopmod esp when I get my AFG. funnily enuff just had an AFG arrive on the wk"nd for mine ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Number5 Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 Druid, Looking nice! loving the simple set up! It would seem that SOPMODS/SOCOMS with AFG's are in Vouge at the moment, heres my SOCOM; Been running this for a month or so now, loving it! to Richard Y; Nice work on the innovation as always! The recoil weight upgrade is something I've been looking forward to from you, for a while now! increasing the felt recoil would make the SOPMOD/SOCOM just that much more awsome! but I'm as hesitant as the rest of the folks on here, regarding wear on the Buffer tube, the threads and the back of the gear box etc. Would it cause the motor more grief? Plus the drop in ROF. Lots of testing for you to do me thinks!! Perhaps you could try different weights rather than just double the original!? possibly adding just another 100 grams might increase it enough!? Alot of people strive for that 'real' feeling, but you gotta remember the fun aspect! And the guns are not made of materials that in the long run, could with stand 'real steel' shaking! With my socom as is, I have to Loctite everything!!! lol. On the back of making the Sopmod as 'real as possible' has anyone had any look fitting after market receivers? I'm planning on trying to pick up a Sopmod or socom (preferrably socom) 2nd hand, and trying some more external upgrades such as fitting after market upper receivers and even lowers (though lowers present a whole world of problems I dont think I could over come with a dremel!) Anak Chan, I think you post as 'Q' on the TKoverkill forums and you mentioned fitting an after market MUR, any luck with that? Also, anyone find any retailers stocking the new Laylax thin Spacers for the barrel and delta ring, that were posted a few pages back? J. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
druid799 Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 (edited) cheers matey , had a chuckle to my self when i saw the pic of yours , i"ve just bought an MOE hand guard in black off Beaker for mine ! am trying to keep it as un-cluttered as i can , think it looks so much better like that (plus i have a masada thats all ready got all the bells and wistles on it !) Edited April 19, 2010 by druid799 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 100g pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh POWERRRRR if im guna do it hehe lets do it properly Lets go 300g extra, i still need to make sure all my dimensions in the drawings are accurate. I m sure it will take several prototypes.. For instance too tight and it might slow rof.. too loose and we will be adding noise and vibrations.. The current unit wobbles about in the tube like an old wet fart, even if i stuck to the standard weight it might be a cool little upgrade any way. Taking a lot of the noise away and smoothing things out. The nitriding it will have on it is the same process they add to high performance crank shafts and bearings. It will be so hard and smooth it will be completely wear resistant. It also lowers friction levels to the point where you dont need grease as its so smooth. Technically speaking. Just imagine a whole gearbox of parts out of metal and nitrided, smoother than a babys bottom! This is what im talking about innovation for the nation! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnakChan Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 Anak Chan, I think you post as 'Q' on the TKoverkill forums and you mentioned fitting an after market MUR, any luck with that? J. Oh really? Can't remember saying that but I talk too much so forget what I've tried and what I haven't . I do have a spare AEG MUR but don't think that'll fit the SOPMOD without some severe modifications. The fit is quite different especially for the hop/barrel naturally. I can take a look at it again tonight to see how much modding is required. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnakChan Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 100g pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh POWERRRRR if im guna do it hehe lets do it properly Lets go 300g extra, i still need to make sure all my dimensions in the drawings are accurate. I m sure it will take several prototypes.. For instance too tight and it might slow rof.. too loose and we will be adding noise and vibrations.. The current unit wobbles about in the tube like an old wet fart, even if i stuck to the standard weight it might be a cool little upgrade any way. Taking a lot of the noise away and smoothing things out. How about some kinda leaky o-ring to reduce the wobble? Greased naturally but leaky enough not to have any air compression happening in there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 100g pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh POWERRRRR if im guna do it hehe lets do it properly QFT! If that experiment of yours really ups the recoil, it will be just great Keep up the good work Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Number5 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 100g pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh POWERRRRR if im guna do it hehe lets do it properly Lets go 300g extra, i still need to make sure all my dimensions in the drawings are accurate. I m sure it will take several prototypes.. For instance too tight and it might slow rof.. too loose and we will be adding noise and vibrations.. The current unit wobbles about in the tube like an old wet fart, even if i stuck to the standard weight it might be a cool little upgrade any way. Taking a lot of the noise away and smoothing things out. The nitriding it will have on it is the same process they add to high performance crank shafts and bearings. It will be so hard and smooth it will be completely wear resistant. It also lowers friction levels to the point where you dont need grease as its so smooth. Technically speaking. Just imagine a whole gearbox of parts out of metal and nitrided, smoother than a babys bottom! This is what im talking about innovation for the nation! Lol, point taken! 300g Double bubble it is! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Hola, Just got my baby and sweet she is too. Just a standard Socom Carbine so no frills. Replaced the Stock for a Magpul PTS (no issue there), replaced the sling plate. I had to mod mine. The real steel ones won't fit without modification because the stock tube is ever so slightly bigger in diameter on the Marui. Nothing 5 mins with the dremel didn't sort out. Modded the barrel so I can get a 9.6v in, although I will be going to Li-Po and Mosfet in the near future. Overall, really pleased with this. Might upgrade the spring dunno yet. Now my issue is thus. My mags (Both of the ones I've tried, I've got 4 more to get out of the wrappers yet) are misfeeding. They are the standard lo/mid caps. From what I can gather the problem lies with the little nub inside the feed rail. As the BB's apparently double stack, the 1st BB is jamming with the nub (I know its the 1st BB because I've put only one in and pushed it down with a loading rod, same result) as the nub skews ever so slightly to the side. By the nub, I mean the bit that looks like 2 BB's together (one bigger to stop it flying out). This is obviously causing some dry firing. Anyone else getting the same issue? I have't tried lubing them yet. Never a big fan of putting lube near BB's because this inevitably gets on the hop and cacks things up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Welcome to the sopmod club, its like our pet name for this unofficial sopmod / socom club we have going on here try this for the mags http://eagle6.co.uk/beta/reviews/how-to-guides/video-guide-how-to-clean-and-maintain-the-tokyo-marui-sopmod-magazines/ the age old addage of take it apart and put it back together again might seem them back to form. i personally dont have any issues with mine as long as i clean them once every few skirmishes i was flicking through the modify dealer catalog today and saw they are doing a sopmod piston head. nothing else though, its a start Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Hi Richard... I've had one of them apart, and back together. Still the same. This was all part of my elimination process to see what was going wrong. I actually like the mags, nice and simple and easy to work on. My own opinion is that the design is a little flawed (not much, but a bit). The nub should be shaped to follow the rail (like a pistol mag follower) rather than being allowed to skew over to one side. I've yet to go and check my next theory (family is back so no time now), and that is to remove the nub completely and just let the BB's sit on the spring head (the 'pivoty' bit). But this is all dependant on whether the spring head stops when it hits the cut off switch or whether the nub not being able to travel any further is what stops the spring head. failing that.... I'm going to lube them (but this really is against all my better judgement) and after that, I'm probably going to fashion a follower. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 basically the follower stops the bbs from falling past the spring so i wouldnt remove that, its in a certian shape that should allow it to flow perfectly in the channel. When its apart run it up and down in the chanels and see where it catches. then remove said offending sticky outty bit. lets just clarify before you do that, when you say miss feeding. Are you saying your dry firing and bbs are left in the mag. or theres no bbs left and its still dry firing. The later being the cut off lever of the mags the former being the follower cuasing the problem. Ive had the cut off feature stop on a few mags and cleaning sorted it. Ive never had a mag not feed though. flawless every time. one time the follower got stuck in there though, i lent the mags out and one came back with what looked like a missing follower but it turned out to be stuck right at the bottom. so just double check where and how they slide, there are parts in there which you can greese or silcon up with out it getting in the channel where the bbs are. Before you do too much, try all the mags if its only two of them and its brand new id try sending them back. if its all of the mags.. ummm id have to recommend bbs which are round in shape let us know how it goes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 (edited) BB's left in the mag and they can get stuck half way down the channel without even coming into contact with the bolt stop mechanism parts. It happened whether I filled the mag, or just had one or a few BB's in. A little (and I'm talking the tiniest squirt here) lube seems to have done the trick for now, but it has transferred to my hop because it's being a little wild. Hopefully running it through will clear this. I understand perfectly why they have done what they have done. The channel in the mag allows the BB's to double stack (hence fit more in for a given space) and is probably 6mmx8-9mm. But that follower (the double BB looking bit) is a straight 6mm (with one larger part to stop it pinging out) and because its the size it is it can slop about in the channel. It twists in the channel when the first BB double stacks against it. It's this twist that is partially jamming the follower in the channel. There are no burrs inside the channel it's purely a friction interference issue. It happens occasionally on a pistol mag when the BB doesn't fall to the correct side of the follower, skewing it in it's channel. Lubing reduces this friction by the very nature of lube. But it adversely affects the hop because some of it is transferred to the BB whilst it goes up the channel. Personally, a better follower would be the same shape as the channel to minimise the skewing, with a notch at the top to offset the first BB. Like a pistol mag follower. Difficult to describe I know.... much easier if I posted a pic. I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this issue with brand new magazines not feeding correctly. I have to explain my position a little. Being an avid sniper type and predominantly using a bolt action where the tiniest fluctuation in hop can be a real headache, hence my quite anal fascination with not getting any thing 'adverse' in the hop area. I'll just have to see what the difference in time is from having the hop messed up by too much lube and the mags sticking because of not enough lube! But you're right I've switched from the sticky cube BB's to the round ones and that's made a drastic improvement! I have to say, I like what they've done with the rifle though. The open backed gearbox is a bit genius. That's one in the eye for those Systema and ICS users who rant on about quick spring changes. The recoil unit is a nice design. Would have been better if they made the stock tube the same dimensions though so there wasn't a need to mod the sling plates (I mean, they've managed to fit the recoil unit inside a 'standard' stock dimension, but they they put that step into it where it goes into the back of the receiver! WHY!!). The change in hop was well overdue. I think my only criticisms would be.... why make it only take an 8.4v battery (without having to mod it!) and it would have been much nicer to have a two piece outer barrel so you have the Carbine and Commando length outer options. But hey, if that's the only thing I can find to gripe about, I think it's a bit of a success. Here is the concluding statement from my own forums review for this rifle. Overall as a first impression, this is looking to be a real gem of a rifle. It looks to be a really nice halfway house between the ultra realism that a GBBR provides and the simplistic reliability and functionality that an AEG provides.At this current moment in time, nothing provides this level of engagement, recoil, working bolt (after a fashion), stop on empty and a decent simulated reload. Not even your uber expensive Systema. Yes, there are different models that can provide individual elements of all this, but none (other than the Marui) that provide it all in one neatly made package Edited April 21, 2010 by The Chef Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 nice conclusion.. next gen is the future.. its just getting that message out to people! Everyone gets hung up on the recoil or blowback and completely miss all the other cool features and benifits. just imagine when TM replaces its whole line up with these new guns... cant wait Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 Yeah, the socom/sopmod is like a PTW but with more features, more reliable, and cheaper, it cant be beaten. Cant wait for mine to arrive home Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Number5 Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) nice conclusion.. next gen is the future.. its just getting that message out to people! Everyone gets hung up on the recoil or blowback and completely miss all the other cool features and benifits. just imagine when TM replaces its whole line up with these new guns... cant wait Well I guess more people will know about it soon, as ARMY (the ACM manufacturer) just announced its CLONE of the SOPMOD is coming soon! Personally I hope its every bit as good as the TM or (but I doubt it) better! excellent source of cheap replacement parts (although there are alot of those already available at reasonable prices!) and cheaper rif to work on before abusing the expensive one!!! In all honesty unless they can price it well, it may not sell that well! J. Edited April 22, 2010 by Number5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) you got any links for the ARMY info i heard about it ages ago but nothing came of it... also Looks a whole lot like the sopmod body i think for 64 dollars shipped someone should find out Edited April 22, 2010 by Richard Y Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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