G&P GBB M4A1 family

[uscmCorps]

I'm ordering the G&P M16A4 with the solid rear stock,would it

be a lot of work to change it to a M4 stock?.

Probably not too difficult. G&P seems to have released carbine stock parts that include the buffer tube (carbine buffer tubes are different than full stock buffers). If you choose to switch out your stock to a carbine I'd probably go with the G&P one as I'm not 100% sure if the G&P GBB M4 lower receiver can take a RS buffer tube (other members have reported that their RS buffer tubes weren't compatible with their WAs... not sure if G&P replicated that inaccuracy or not).

 

In other news, I've installed my Magpul ASP sling mount last week and it is SWEET. Used in conjunction with the Magpul Dynamics MS2 sling, it makes transitioning from right to left shoulder a breeze! When they officially come out I highly recommend at least getting the ASP Sling Mount (as for the sling, there are several good slings out there like EMDOM's Gun fighter sling which is almost the same thing).

 

I've been in contact with RATech over their new products, NPAS nozzle set which allows you to adjust the fps of your gun with a simple twist of a part and will get that as part of a full bolt & bolt carrier set as well as one of their tightbores. I'll share what I know and how they work with G&P GBB M4s once they arrive.

[TANGO91]

Probably not too difficult. G&P seems to have released carbine stock parts that include the buffer tube (carbine buffer tubes are different than full stock buffers). If you choose to switch out your stock to a carbine I'd probably go with the G&P one as I'm not 100% sure if the G&P GBB M4 lower receiver can take a RS buffer tube (other members have reported that their RS buffer tubes weren't compatible with their WAs... not sure if G&P replicated that inaccuracy or not).

 

In other news, I've installed my Magpul ASP sling mount last week and it is SWEET. Used in conjunction with the Magpul Dynamics MS2 sling, it makes transitioning from right to left shoulder a breeze! When they officially come out I highly recommend at least getting the ASP Sling Mount (as for the sling, there are several good slings out there like EMDOM's Gun fighter sling which is almost the same thing).

 

I've been in contact with RATech over their new products, NPAS nozzle set which allows you to adjust the fps of your gun with a simple twist of a part and will get that as part of a full bolt & bolt carrier set as well as one of their tightbores. I'll share what I know and how they work with G&P GBB M4s once they arrive.

 

How did you get the ASP sling? Those look really great, and im glad to hear that they work well, also any ETA on price?

[shinhk]

It came out last week. You can buy it direct from magpul.

 

http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?ma...products_id=301

 

oh and the sling plate:

 

http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?ma...products_id=302

Edited February 24, 2009 by shinhk

[Budman]

Probably not too difficult. G&P seems to have released carbine stock parts that include the buffer tube (carbine buffer tubes are different than full stock buffers). If you choose to switch out your stock to a carbine I'd probably go with the G&P one as I'm not 100% sure if the G&P GBB M4 lower receiver can take a RS buffer tube (other members have reported that their RS buffer tubes weren't compatible with their WAs... not sure if G&P replicated that inaccuracy or not)

 

I'm trying to build a Canadian C7 late 90's- 2000 + model,they have the adjustable

stock.But the C7 I used was solid stock,I would like to switch back & forth.Hence

my how diffcult it is question.

[slu]

I'm trying to build a Canadian C7 late 90's- 2000 + model,they have the adjustable

stock.But the C7 I used was solid stock,I would like to switch back & forth.Hence

my how diffcult it is question.

 

Assuming all your parts fit, swapping would require removal of the stock itself (slide off if carbine, unbolt if A2), removal of buffer, recoil spring and buffer tube (which requires removal of the upper). The airsoft buffer tube is probably not staked, so it just screw off. It's certainly not as easy as, say, swapping an upper.

 

If you have the telescoping stock, I wouldn't go back to the A2 stock, especially since there are no more batteries to carry.

Edited February 25, 2009 by slu

[shinhk]

Some people just like the feel of the full stock, plus it balances out a full rifle like the c7. Budman - this is what's required to swap stocks:

 

open receiver

take buffer / spring out

loosen receiver extension nut

unscrew receiver extension

screw in the other receiver extension

tighten extension nut

put buffer / spring back in

 

However i'm not sure if the g&p uses an actual full stock buffer, or if it's filled inside to be the same length as the carbine stock length because the RS full stock has a different buffer that goes with it. And from what i understand, c7a1 has the full stock and the c7a2 has the multi-position retractable stock.

[AnakChan]

It came out last week. You can buy it direct from magpul.

 

http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?ma...products_id=301

 

oh and the sling plate:

 

http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?ma...products_id=302

 

Damn, I want this set, but no tan sling for sale yet (even though it's in the pictures?).

[shinhk]

Magpul always releases black first, then other colors after. FDE will be releasing afterwards though.

[uscmCorps]

FDE sling's been out. It's just not listed yet.

 

[sadman]

uscm how did it shoot during your practice?

[uscmCorps]

This past weekend I ended up using my Chris Costa VFC SR16 instead. I was hoping to use the GBB SR16 this Saturday, but the people who we were supposed to train rescheduled for a later date. So no training and no team practice this weekend.

 

Other than that, I've been toying with the gun a fair bit over the past week. Comparing my G&P GBB to my friend's WE, I can't help but reflect on how much more satisfying the G&P is to shoot. The recoil, the sound... The difference is clear.

[slu]

This past weekend I ended up using my Chris Costa VFC SR16 instead. I was hoping to use the GBB SR16 this Saturday, but the people who we were supposed to train rescheduled for a later date. So no training and no team practice this weekend.

 

Other than that, I've been toying with the gun a fair bit over the past week. Comparing my G&P GBB to my friend's WE, I can't help but reflect on how much more satisfying the G&P is to shoot. The recoil, the sound... The difference is clear.

 

Good to hear the report, but eagerly awaiting a field test at the same time.

 

Also, do you happen to know if there is an ambi mag release available for the G&P at this time (being a lefty shooter, ambi controls are somewhat big to me, another reason I'd like to go GBB)? I know G&P lists one, so it'll take a while for it to trickle down to retailers.

 

For instance, Prime makes one but says its intended for their own lowers. Is there a difference between the mag catch size on the Prime and the G&P lowers?

 

Also, real KNS pins fit?

Edited February 28, 2009 by slu

[Pedro30]

Good to hear the report, but eagerly awaiting a field test at the same time.

 

Also, do you happen to know if there is an ambi mag release available for the G&P at this time (being a lefty shooter, ambi controls are somewhat big to me, another reason I'd like to go GBB)? I know G&P lists one, so it'll take a while for it to trickle down to retailers.

 

For instance, Prime makes one but says its intended for their own lowers. Is there a difference between the mag catch size on the Prime and the G&P lowers?

 

Also, real KNS pins fit?

 

Since the prime is made for the WA, and the G&P is based on the WA, I think they would fit.

 

AEGs have ambi controls also, VFC's KAC rifles are all fully ambidextrous. Getting a VFC aeg wouldn't be a bad choice if your gonna skirmish.

 

If your gonna skirmish, you should get an AEG. These WA magazines are pretty low cap and they cost alot, but RA-tech is developing a low costing magazine, but who knows when they will turn up.

 

GBBrs are fun, but they are quite costly to run. If skirmishing and performance on the field is your number 1 priority, then should shouldn't be using a GBBr.

 

AEG>GBBr in skirmishing there is no proving it wrong.

 

I really don't see any pros GBBs have against AEGs in skirmishing, hmmm I just can't think of any 

Edited February 28, 2009 by Pedro30

[slu]

Since the prime is made for the WA, and the G&P is based on the WA, I think they would fit.

 

AEGs have ambi controls also, VFC's KAC rifles are all fully ambidextrous. Getting a VFC aeg wouldn't be a bad choice if your gonna skirmish.

 

If your gonna skirmish, you should get an AEG. These WA magazines are pretty low cap and they cost alot, but RA-tech is developing a low costing magazine, but who knows when they will turn up.

 

GBBs are fun, but they are quite costly to run. If skirmishing and performance on the field is your number 1 priority, then should shouldn't be using a GBB.

 

AEG>GBB in skirmishing there is no proving it wrong.

 

I really don't see any pros GBBs have against AEGs in skirmishing, hmmm I just can't think of any

 

Well, the Prime metal receivers are dimensionally different G&P's receivers and the WA stock receivers the G&Ps were based off of, which is why I asked.

 

I realize AEGs are certainly better skirmish weapons. Then again, GBBs are certainly more fun. For me, airsoft is something for fun, so why not. Regardless, I already own an AEG, and don't need another.

Edited February 28, 2009 by slu

[freq88]

I beg to differ on gbb not being skirmishable. There plenty of people that play with pistols only. And there are those who skirmish against AEG's with the WE and WA M4 GBB. Along with the external rigged Escorts and other classics too. Limited rounds isn't always a handicap it just makes things more challenging. The only advantage AEG's have over GBB is cost of ownership over the lifespan of the user.

[sadman]

I agree with freq88. IMO all that a GBB has to be competitive for skirmishing is comparable accuracy (on semi) and range as that of an AEG. It is not how many bb's you can throw down range at someone. It is if you can hit something accurately at a distance or not.

 

I've gotten to the point where all my AEG's are tuned pretty close to our limits or right on and they all seem the same with a different shell. I'm in desperate need of something to bring some more realism back to the game.

[freq88]

I agree with freq88. IMO all that a GBB has to be competitive for skirmishing is comparable accuracy (on semi) and range as that of an AEG. It is not how many bb's you can throw down range at someone. It is if you can hit something accurately at a distance or not.

 

I've gotten to the point where all my AEG's are tuned pretty close to our limits or right on and they all seem the same with a different shell. I'm in desperate need of something to bring some more realism back to the game.

 

In other words operator error.

[Pedro30]

I meant to say GBBr not GBB in general.

 

I'm trying to say, if your looking at a PURELY SKIRMISHING mindset, AEGs are the better choice by far.

 

GBBrs are accurate but with the blowback, you still lose accuracy. The pros of the GBBrs still do not outweigh the cons in terms of SKIRMISH, parts, cost and dependability, my G&P M4 has bad cooldown affect.

 

BTW it didn't come with a speedload or a loading tube, so good luck reloading on the field, especially if your not willing or financially sound enough, which i'm not, to spend 100 dollars on each magazines.

 

Sometimes it is about how many rounds you can shoot, aren't US infrantry tactics about fire supremacy and maneuvers?

 

WE would be the better skirmishing choice over the G&P and WA, but I do not have a WE, nor would I want a GBBr to skirmish with, but it is what ever makes you happy.

 

If you like to skirmish with a GBBr by all means go for it, just bring an AEG as a backup . If skirmishing is your number one priority, then I suggest you look else where. If you want something different and fun, or even as a training rifle, a GBBr is excellent in those categories.

 

 

 

[ThaFlash]

I'm going to start off with the assumption that people participate in airsoft games and skirmishes for fun.

 

I am no collector, I use my guns and use them pretty hard.

 

I have found that no matter what I say, what I do or how many times I prove my point; there are some people who will never believe that a WA 1911 pistol can be made reliably skirmishable on green gas. I don't bother to try anymore, and I shouldn't bother to try with these guns.

 

GBBrs are accurate but with the blowback, you still lose accuracy. The pros of the GBBrs still do not outweigh the cons in terms of SKIRMISH, parts, cost and dependability, my G&P M4 has bad cooldown affect.

Well, a major pro of a GBB rifle is the fun of using it. How you weigh that against the cost of oil, gas, etc... are up to the individual user alone.

 

BTW it didn't come with a speedload or a loading tube, so good luck reloading on the field, especially if your not willing or financially sound enough, which i'm not, to spend 100 dollars on each magazines.

I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money. But a speedloader can be bought for under $20. My G&P AEG's didn't come with a loading tube or an unjamming rod. I found a way to load my mags and clear jams. I'm sure if you wanted to, you could find a way with your GBB.

 

Sometimes it is about how many rounds you can shoot, aren't US infrantry tactics about fire supremacy and maneuvers?

US tactics are also reliant on 30rnd mags with SAW's having 200rnd boxes. I was effective on the airsoft field with STAR 30rnd mags, these give 20+ more rounds. If you're a spray and pray type of player, it probably isn't the best choice for your games.

 

WE would be the better skirmishing choice over the G&P and WA, but I do not have a WE, nor would I want a GBBr to skirmish with, but it is what ever makes you happy.

What happened to it being about how many rounds you can shoot? What happened to cooldown? Yeah, a WE is good to go out of the box. But it has 30rnd mags and the same cooldown. It has accuracy reducing recoil (whatever). How is the G&P any less effective? Unless you have a problem with taking a $500+ GBB to a field.

 

If you like to skirmish with a GBBr by all means go for it, just bring an AEG as a backup . If skirmishing is your number one priority, then I suggest you look else where. If you want something different and fun, or even as a training rifle, a GBBr is excellent in those categories.

 

Yeah, having an AEG backup is a good idea. A reliable one is better.

 

I tend to think of skirmishes as being more "mil-simish" than your typical game with a fools running around like chickens with their fingers on the trigger? And, in the end it's all about fun. I think whatever each person thinks gives them the best skirmishing experience is going to be the best choice for them.

 

 

slu: While the Prime is made for the WA and the G&P is based on a WA, don't expect everything to work perfect. Expect some fitting. Prime's parts are made for the WA, and their parts are compatible with both WA and Prime receivers, they have an adapter for bolt carrier groups to fit in their receivers. Mating 3rd party parts with other 3rd party parts is often less than perfect and expect to break out a file.

[Pedro30]

I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money. But a speedloader can be bought for under $20. My G&P AEG's didn't come with a loading tube or an unjamming rod. I found a way to load my mags and clear jams. I'm sure if you wanted to, you could find a way with your GBB.

Speedloaders do not work with the G&P without an adaptor, which wasn't included and I can't find anywhere. Their feed lips are not the same as an AEG magazine.

 

 

 

Well, a major pro of a GBB rifle is the fun of using it. How you weigh that against the cost of oil, gas, etc... are up to the individual user alone.

 

Fun is a pro when using the GBBr, but are there any other advantages of using a GBBr when compared to an AEG?

 

You can't share magazines with your teammates, it cost alot of money to run (70-100 dollar mags) even upgrades are quite expensive (100 bucks for a tightbore), if your worried about range TM rifles have great hopup.

 

Unless your willing to spend alot of money, you won't have a good setup using the G&P GBBr. For me, I usually bring 6 midcaps and a highcap into a skirmish, that is 7 magazines, with almost 1k in rounds. With the G&P, lets break it down.

 

G&P M4 RIS - 750 shipped

 

or plain M4 - 550

 

Magazine- 6x S-type cost around 480, or 6 normal for 600

 

That is a 1k- 1.5k setup, how many people here can honestly say they can just drop 1.5k into a rifle and 6 magazines?

 

The only reason I suggest the WE is because it is cheaper to run, it still has all most of the same disadvantages of the G&P/WA.

 

I'm not bashing on the GBBr, i'm just stating facts and trying to be reasonable.

 

If you guys can stop being bias towards the GBBr and look at it purely from a objective stand point you will see that an AEG is better than a GBBr IN TERMS OF SKIRMISH.

 

In terms of fun and training there is NO DOUBT that the GBBr reigns supreme, but if your looking for a main skirmish rifle, this is not the thing to be looking at.

 

The GBBr is skirmishworthy, but it is not very practical for being a everyweek skirmisher.

 

All in all, it all comes down to what makes the buyer happy.I'm really happy with mine and that is what counts.

 

Just trying to answer slu's question about field performance, since that seems to be a deciding factor of whether he buys it or not.

 

Here are my ratings:

 

Skimisher- 5/10

 

Personally- 10/10 (not gonna spend 700+ on something I don't like)

 

Collector- 8/10

 

 

[ThaFlash]

You bring up a few good points.

 

1.Fun is a pro when using the GBBr, but are there any other advantages of using a GBBr when compared to an AEG?

What more do I want? I want what is to maximize my fun.

 

2.That is a 1k- 1.5k setup, how many people here can honestly say they can just drop 1.5k into a rifle and 6 magazines?

Like I said earlier, how you spend your money is your business. My least expensive AEG cost me about $1k not including mags, batteries and internals. Some people cringe at a $300 G&P AEG, they shouldn't invest in a $500+ base GBB rifle.

 

3. The GBBr is skirmishworthy, but it is not very practical...

No arguments here.

 

Yes an AEG is going to be more accurate, but not by much. It may or may not get as much range. It will do much better in full auto. It doesn't run on gas. It doesn't have exposed moving parts. These really are generally known pieces of information.

 

It takes a lot more work to keep a GBB running well. This thing is nothing more than a giant WA pistol. If you can run with one of those for an entire game, then you can do a little more work to run with one of these. Well, that is, if you actually want to.

 

I haven't been airsofting for that long, but the prices of mags, parts and guns for these GBB's are about the same as what I was paying back when I started for AEG's.

Edited February 28, 2009 by ThaFlash

[uscmCorps]

Good to hear the report, but eagerly awaiting a field test at the same time.

 

Also, do you happen to know if there is an ambi mag release available for the G&P at this time (being a lefty shooter, ambi controls are somewhat big to me, another reason I'd like to go GBB)? I know G&P lists one, so it'll take a while for it to trickle down to retailers.

 

For instance, Prime makes one but says its intended for their own lowers. Is there a difference between the mag catch size on the Prime and the G&P lowers?

 

Also, real KNS pins fit?

Some real KNS pins fit. The Gen 2 and Gen 2 MOD 2 pins fit. The Gen 1 pins don't work.

 

G&P does make an ambi-selector, and I have it currently installed on my GBB. I think WGCShop has them currently. Not sure about the differences between the Prime and G&P receivers but I've heard from multiple sources that there are spec differences between the two.

 

Edited February 28, 2009 by uscmCorps

[sadman]

Pedro I think you are missing our point, we are looking for a little more fun and realism in our games. GBB don't have to beat AEG's and are not out to do so. I'm willing to pay extra for having realism, you have made clear that you do not wish to spend that type of money. Skirmishable is different in everyone's book, in my case, I just want a reasonably reliable rifle that will provide acceptable range and accuracy. I don't mind the extra maintenance that comes with a GBB, its part of the game.

 

As I keep saying, I just want a GBB that I can be competitive with AEG's and add some realism back into the game for me.

[freq88]

I think too many people are making airsoft more competitive then it needs to be. This isn't paintball, there are no prize money or trophies to be had. Just good times and good stories to tell afterwards. In all my years of playing the more "competitive" people feel they need to be is proportionate to the number cheating incidents. In other words games where people are just out to have fun are less likely to cheat than those who are out to dominate and win.

 

Cost of ownership does not mean unskirmishable. It just means fewer people are able to afford it. Again I've played with, played personally with plenty of GBBr, Classics and GBB against AEG's with highcaps, midcaps and what not and had lots more fun, not to mention been able to hold my own. Hit's maybe fewer, but they sure are a lot more rewarding since you have to work harder and smarter to get them.

 

Practicality of GBBr vs. AEG again is irrelevant since it is up to the operator to decide how to maximize what they are using/have. Just like the real stuff these are nothing more than tools. It is our ability to implement them to the maximum of it's own potential and of our abilities that's important.

[shinhk]

If you take all the pros and cons for competing against other AEGs, AEG rifles > GBB rifles

 

But fun factor... GBB rifles > AEG rifles

 

I CURRENTLY play with my WA M4 as my primary. Do I bring an AEG with me as a backup? No because I don't want to and I have faith in my gun. I've done a lot to get it to that point though. I run with only 3 mags, 45 rounds each and I either I get hit or the game ends before I run out of ammo. I also run with a pistol and 1 extra mag. The reason why i'm comfortable doing this is because of the place I play and the people i play with. We don't have little kids with high-caps going bananas with the trigger. If we do have someone who plays with it I don't consider it cheating. I just consider them another player. I play with mostly PTW owners who just like to have fun. If I get hit before getting anyone else out, then so be it. I'll just wait for the next game. To me it doesn't matter if someone else's gun is better than mine. What matters is what gun is better for me. And I have a heck of a lot more fun playing with my GBB rifle than ANY other type of gun I've owned/used. However your own skill determines the skirmishability of any gun. Though the accuracy of a gun sure helps a lot!

 

As for someone who asked about what advantage gbb's have over AEGs...TRIGGER RESPONSE! Not necessarily the speed, but the feel of it