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Korppi

G&P GBB M4A1 family

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@ HOOT:

The Block II UR is a MUR, so no, not really standard issu. In fact, it was a try if it would work, and is already disassembled again. I'd love to put a Proud SIR on the MUR, the one with the free floating 203 attachment...

 

Buis in a King Arms repro of the MA-Tech

 

@ Shin: are you actually saying the Airsoft Surgon 15$ piece is ADJUSTABLE???

 

@ ThaFlash: what temps did you have, and what gas did you use?

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Temps started in the low 50's and got to the low 70's probably. It was mostly cold, but anything under 70 is cold for me (man I love living in LA).

 

I use propane.

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The gun has setbacks. It's expensive to run. Mags are $45 for GHK's, but they work well and I remember paying that much for hi-caps back in the day. Accuracy won't ever match an AEG. It's volatile. And It's high maintenance. But it's fun, very fun. And when it works well, it's the most fun I have in airsoft.

Agreed, it's a very fun system. But a very high maintenance + high cost one at that. I've never loved an airsoft rifle so much in my life to put so much effort into making it a perfect system.

 

@ Shin: are you actually saying the Airsoft Surgon 15$ piece is ADJUSTABLE???

No...not sure where you misunderstood me. The RA-Tech one is adjustable and the Airsoft Surgeon one is not.

 

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I kinda read it like you menat both were adjustable. Which would have been funny if a 15$ part could do the same as a 65$ one.

 

As for the rest of the arguments, I can't fully agree. The WOC as I use it has at least the accuracy of any of my AEGs, and at least in hot weather and or testing conditions, it is also pretty consistent with +-5 to 10 fps. Testing conditions included putting mags in the frige for 2 hours, firing them through on FA and then recharging and chroning them. Granted the fps was way lower, but still consistent.

 

high cost? Yup. But then, think Systema ;)

 

high maintenace? Well. Yes, you'd better clean and lube your GBB after every game.

On the other hand, just last game I had a 2 hour rewiring orgy in a dark safezone building because the fikkin AEG just refused to fire. Unless you seriously break something, i wouldn't even know what to work on in a GBB for two hours, without something really broken.

 

Also, one point I'd like to mention is usability in semi. AEGs are, imo, very unsatisfying in semi. If you trigger too fast, some systems, like the king arms armalites, will start getting hiccups, and might even refuse to fire completely. The WA will fire just as fast as you can pull the trigger. Essentially, you don't really need full auto, other than to maybe scare off Dutch rental players with roaring bursts :P

 

Only true downturn for me is that I can't use her in winter. Below 7°C, even Abby Ultra gas likely gets very unreliable with several recharges and CO2 mags...well, apparently nobody in Asia wants a license for printing money, or else somebody be on this a long time ago...

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Here's why I think it's high maintenance and high cost.

 

Bolt (Nozzle) [$100+ RATech NPAS Aluminum]: You should expect to eventually needs to replace plastic ones (probably about the same as an AEG Piston)

Bolt Carrier [$150 RATech Steel]: I broke a G&P one. Bolt stop will wear the BCG at the point of impact. Eventually one will wear out.

Hopup Rubber [~$15]: The action is violent, I expect to eventually wear one out.

Charging Handle [~$30?]: Documented to break, especially when using high recoil setups and no buffer.

Firing System Assembly [$45-50?] : Non-hardenend and straightened parts will wear out, just like WA 1911 hammer and sears.

Bolt O-rings [$8 for 100 after I modified my Bolt]: They'll wear out just like on WA 1911's.

Bolt return springs (internal spring) [$No Clue]: If your part #7 fails, this spring can die quickly

Part #7 [$10 or so]: If hard plastic, this part will break eventually, especially with metal bolts.

 

Those are parts I accept as just being things that will break at one point or another.

 

On my AEG's I see it as:

Piston: will eventually break

Tappet Plate: Sector gear will eventually wear away the plastic, but I may never use it enough to get to that point.

Motor: Brushes will eventually wear out, but I may never use it enough to get to that point.

 

Basically, once you get an AEG perfect, you have less replacement parts that should be on your mind.

 

But the experience of a well working GiM GBB M4 is easily worth my cost.

 

Edit: As for semi; all my AEG's have MOSFETs and high current LiPo's so I don't think I can to a "half turn" if I tried. But, for some reason my GBB gives me greater confidence that my first shot will hit the target than my AEG. I'm sure it's because I have it sighted in and my BB flight path is very predictable.

 

And the maintenance shouldn't be prohibitive because it's not technically difficult. It just requires more attention than an AEG that you can just forget about.

Edited by ThaFlash

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Anyone put the EBB LaRue 13.2in Rail on their WOC or AGM M4? Did it work? Or any LaRue rail from EBB.

Its this if you are wondering http://www.ebairsoft.com/ar15-handguard-tube-p-2492.html

 

Also, is spending $30 more for a G&P steel M16 barrel worth it, over the Aluminum version?

 

Thanks.

Edited by Ion

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Anyone put the EBB LaRue 13.2in Rail on their WOC or AGM M4? Did it work? Or any LaRue rail from EBB.

Its this if you are wondering http://www.ebairsoft.com/ar15-handguard-tube-p-2492.html

 

Also, is spending $30 more for a G&P steel M16 barrel worth it, over the Aluminum version?

 

Thanks.

 

Spending $30 for the steel barreled version is definitely worth it if you want realism.

 

My AGM has the stock aluminum barrel and while it does feel real, the front weight is not there like the real M4.

 

My WE on the other hand has a steel barrel and it feels way more like a real AR due to the heavier front end. I think that it feels way better.

 

-Luis

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Mind you, there is a trade-off as the heavier the front end, the less "kick" you'll feel since the blowback force will not jolt the gun as much....

 

Still, these toys produce such low recoil that it won't even matter anyways.

 

-Luis

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Here's why I think it's high maintenance and high cost.

 

Bolt (Nozzle) [$100+ RATech NPAS Aluminum]: You should expect to eventually needs to replace plastic ones (probably about the same as an AEG Piston)

Bolt Carrier [$150 RATech Steel]: I broke a G&P one. Bolt stop will wear the BCG at the point of impact. Eventually one will wear out.

Hopup Rubber [~$15]: The action is violent, I expect to eventually wear one out.

Charging Handle [~$30?]: Documented to break, especially when using high recoil setups and no buffer.

Firing System Assembly [$45-50?] : Non-hardenend and straightened parts will wear out, just like WA 1911 hammer and sears.

Bolt O-rings [$8 for 100 after I modified my Bolt]: They'll wear out just like on WA 1911's.

Bolt return springs (internal spring) [$No Clue]: If your part #7 fails, this spring can die quickly

Part #7 [$10 or so]: If hard plastic, this part will break eventually, especially with metal bolts.

 

Those are parts I accept as just being things that will break at one point or another.

 

On my AEG's I see it as:

Piston: will eventually break

Tappet Plate: Sector gear will eventually wear away the plastic, but I may never use it enough to get to that point.

Motor: Brushes will eventually wear out, but I may never use it enough to get to that point.

 

Basically, once you get an AEG perfect, you have less replacement parts that should be on your mind.

 

But the experience of a well working GiM GBB M4 is easily worth my cost.

 

Edit: As for semi; all my AEG's have MOSFETs and high current LiPo's so I don't think I can to a "half turn" if I tried. But, for some reason my GBB gives me greater confidence that my first shot will hit the target than my AEG. I'm sure it's because I have it sighted in and my BB flight path is very predictable.

 

And the maintenance shouldn't be prohibitive because it's not technically difficult. It just requires more attention than an AEG that you can just forget about.

 

well yeah parts fail on real guns as well but we have something that not many other airsofters have. Namely insane trigger discipline. The scariest sounding replica, the most realistic replica, the most FUN replica. I would not trade my G&P woc for ANY aeg out there. No systema, no ics, no marui nothing could replace the guns fun level.

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Just got my hands on the WOC Sentry. Man... such a nice piece of kit. However, I do have some questions about the operation that I hope someone here can help me with:

 

1. Is it normal that I have to slap the bolt release with my palm to slide the bolt back into action? From time to time, if I use my thumb to press the release, the lever itself disengages, but the bolt doesn't slide forward. But it works everytime I slap the lever with my palm

 

2. The magazine, as mentioned before, is a very tight fit inside the magwell. Some folks here have filed down part of the mag catch, my question is, which part of the mag catch? The sloped side or the non-sloped side?

 

3, The charging handle is really dry, do I need to slap on some silicone grease on it like my WE M4? It seems to work fine as is.

 

Really curious how it does in a skirimish compared to my WE (which is really fun, except it's really inconsistent accuracy-wise).

Edited by jesTer

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1. No. Check your bolt for wear. Your BCG is probably rubbing on your magazine. This happened with my stock plastic bolt.

 

2. GHK Mag? You're better off sanding the magazine. I also bend the top of the magazine to give it some curve where it comes into contact with the mag release. You can also bevel the bottom of your mag catch to make the action more smooth.

 

3. Don't worry about the charging handle. If it really worries you, you can add some oil in the groove on the underside as this is where the bolt carrier slides back and forth. I use Militec-1 oil, silicone attracts too much dirt for my liking.

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Hey guys,

 

Seems G&P released their own magazines for WA M4 GBBRs (Top gas ready) alongside with steel magazine feed lips (supposedly it will reduce feeding problems)..

 

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airs...il?prodID=28204

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airs...il?prodID=28206

 

I'll have a couple ordered to see if it is really that good. Will give a report on them once they arrived.

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Really curious how it does in a skirimish compared to my WE (which is really fun, except it's really inconsistent accuracy-wise).

 

 

Great, please post your experience with your new WOC compared to your WE as i do have 2 WE's, scar and afc m4 and thinking to get WOC but still not confident with all the expensive replacement parts. Got one from HMA?

Edited by Break100

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One of my friends really wants to permanently move to GBB rifles. He bought a WE last year and added on all the upgrades and whatnot. He loved his purchase until using the gun a few times in skirmish and then seeing the WOC's in action. Then he said he was going to save up to buy a WOC and noted that he should have spend the extra money to buy right to begin with.

 

From my own experience with the WE, I find it's action to be much less snappy, less reliable and less accurate (BB accuracy not appearance which is known). What I did find to be very realistic is that it shoots back a crapload of gas to your face, that was nostalgic.

 

All, in all I think the only thing the WE has over a WOC is the lower price. But I'd like to think that they make a better product now.

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One of my friends really wants to permanently move to GBB rifles. He bought a WE last year and added on all the upgrades and whatnot. He loved his purchase until using the gun a few times in skirmish and then seeing the WOC's in action. Then he said he was going to save up to buy a WOC and noted that he should have spend the extra money to buy right to begin with.

 

From my own experience with the WE, I find it's action to be much less snappy, less reliable and less accurate (BB accuracy not appearance which is known). What I did find to be very realistic is that it shoots back a crapload of gas to your face, that was nostalgic.

 

All, in all I think the only thing the WE has over a WOC is the lower price. But I'd like to think that they make a better product now.

 

gatta say WE has mags over the woc currently too. Going on TWO years that the inokatsu has been promising those co2 mags that still have not made an appearance. I pray that the G&P mags finally have the fit of WA mags with the green gas ready of ghks!

 

BTW anyone know why a GHK mag would be utter cARp? I have two and the 2nd one I received (first one rocksss love it) is utter failure, and spits gas out of it before I can even start to fill it up. I have no doubt its a valve problem, as it is constantly sticking down, then wont pop back high enough to seal the gas in. I am hesitant to take it apart but if no one knows an easy fix I will have to brave it!

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gatta say WE has mags over the woc currently too. Going on TWO years that the inokatsu has been promising those co2 mags that still have not made an appearance. I pray that the G&P mags finally have the fit of WA mags with the green gas ready of ghks!

I would give WE a magazine advantage, but they leak and fail. Their CO2 mag offers nothing over their GG mag other than more time to reload and more cost due to the 12g powerlets. I have no problem with GHK mags, a little tight but they wear in with a day of gaming. They hold green gas perfectly and are very easy to maintain. Currently, I think they are the best value. A CO2 mag would be nice, but it should offer something over a GG mag.

 

From what I hear, G&P mags are copies of the WA mag like the Bomber mags. This means that o-ring replacement is likely, adding at least $9 to the cost of the mags.

 

BTW anyone know why a GHK mag would be utter cARp? I have two and the 2nd one I received (first one rocksss love it) is utter failure, and spits gas out of it before I can even start to fill it up. I have no doubt its a valve problem, as it is constantly sticking down, then wont pop back high enough to seal the gas in. I am hesitant to take it apart but if no one knows an easy fix I will have to brave it!

 

The valves are very easy to work on. There is a common issue with GHK mags in that an internal o-ring in the release valve fits a little tight. This causes the valve to lock in the open position, or sometimes even lock in the closed position. You can either switch the o-ring to something smaller or slightly sand down the area that the o-ring sits in. Or it could be something as easy as the area being too dry causing too much friction. My friend's GHK mag has that problem, when I fix his, I'll try to remember to take pictures and post them.

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From what I hear, G&P mags are copies of the WA mag like the Bomber mags. This means that o-ring replacement is likely, adding at least $9 to the cost of the mags.

 

They state that the mags are already ready for Green gas use so it shouldn't be a problem.

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Yepp! :D

 

G&P 50rds Magazine for (WA) Western Arms M4

Say bye-bye to your (green) gas leak troubles with the new 50rds magazines from G&P. Factory made to be compatible with Top Gas right out of the box.

 

Taken from RedWolf : http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/...il?prodID=28204

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I wish JG would release mags. My JG mag has been holding well with Top Gas. So far torture testing it has showed it is able to hold up. If JG releases individual mags, thats where my money will be headed.

 

 

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